Hawaii Turning Heated Arguments into ‘Justification’ for Taking Your Guns

Who’s going to break it to the sheep that “Only Ones” bent on disarming them have no duty to keep them safe and can’t be held liable if they fail? (Hawaii Police Department/Facebook)

U.S.A. – -(Ammoland.com)- Have you ever gotten into an argument with someone? Did you raise your voice? Did things get loud?

Did you lose your temper and swear at the object of your anger? Congratulations. The State of Hawaii would order you to surrender your guns.

The case is Lance S. Choda v. County of Hawaii, and the complaint was filed on September 14 by attorneys Alan Beck and Kevin O’Grady in the United States District Court for the District of Hawaii.

Hawaii is especially strict when it comes to guns and violence, not just the domestic kind, and not just in the state, but everywhere, in Everytown. Per state law:

“No person who is under indictment for, or has waived indictment for, or has been bound over to the circuit court for, or has been convicted in this State or elsewhere of having committed a felony, or any crime of violence, or an illegal sale of any drug shall own, possess, or control any firearm or ammunition therefor.”

And “thanks” to that law, which requires the registration of all firearms, they know who’s got what, at least among the “law-abiding.” So when the police order you to give up your guns by a certain date, you know if you don’t you can expect a visit by heavily armed enforcers conditioned to view armed citizens as an anomaly and a threat.

That’s what Lance Choda is facing, and to make matters worse, he committed no act of violence. Per the complaint, he just shouted back at a neighbor who was shouting at him. From the “Statement of Facts”:

“On December 19, 2020, Choda started his vehicle’s engine at night. Choda’s neighbor yelled at him to be quiet. Choda yelled at his neighbor. Profanity was used. Choda and his neighbor yelled at each other. Police were called. While police were present Choda yelled at his neighbor using profanity. Choda and his neighbor were on their own properties separated by a fence. No threats were made. No physical contact occurred between Choda and his neighbor. Choda was arrested for disorderly conduct;”

Tell me this could not have happened to anyone. And the result of that incident?

Choda pled no contest and was found guilty of harassment and disorderly conduct.

Thinking the past was behind him, “Choda applied for a permit to get another firearm.” And then a not-so-funny thing happened. An outrageous and intolerable thing happened:

“On August 11, 2021, COUNTY delivered a letter to Choda informing him that the police department had denied his permit to acquire firearms and informing him that he had until September 15, 2021, to dispose of all firearms and ammunition within thirty days.”

The county is misinterpreting state law and treating it as a conviction for a “crime of violence” and they further warned him:

“Any firearms and ammunition presently in your possession must be disposed of by September 15, 2021. Failure to do so may result in seizure of the firearms and ammunition and criminal prosecution under Chapter 134 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes.”

Obviously, it’s past September 15. Attorneys Beck and O’Grady applied for a temporary restraining order and obtained a stipulation, signed by the judge, that the deadline “is extended until five business days after resolution of the above-captioned litigation[and] that no agent or person …may arrest, prosecute or otherwise initiate criminal or civil sanctions against Mr. Choda for failure to turn in or transfer his firearms … until five business days after resolution of the above-captioned litigation.”

So, it could still happen then. And we’d better believe it, there are plenty of would-be totalitarians, eager to see such edicts imposed in the mainland.  It’s enough to make a measured and rational man want to scream profanities at them. For starters.

That such tyranny – and that’s what this is – is possible at all in a Republic where the Constitution is alleged to be “the supreme Law of the Land,” and where “the right of the people to keep and bear arms” is supposed to be immune to infringements, speaks to how far the rulers — who were intended to be servants — have perverted the intent of the Founders.

The complaint and supplemental documents are embedded below:


About David Codrea:
David Codrea is the winner of multiple journalist awards for investigating/defending the RKBA and a long-time gun owner rights advocate who defiantly challenges the folly of citizen disarmament. He blogs at “The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance,” is a regularly featured contributor to Firearms News, and posts on Twitter: @dcodrea and Facebook.

David Codrea

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Larry
Larry
22 days ago

On the surface, “shoot, shovel, and shut up” is pretty indistinguishable from compliance.

Finnky
Finnky
21 days ago
Reply to  Larry

No comment

Arizona
Arizona
22 days ago

Anyone who registers a weapon with the government is an idiot and helps perpetuate an unconstitutional “law”, giving their consent to be illegally deprived of their rights.

I Haz A Question
I Haz A Question
22 days ago
Reply to  Arizona

Let’s stop you right there. I’m a native Californian who grew up in the ’80s when we were still a Red state and had little to no gun control. Things really started to go south in the late ’90s, and picked up steam a decade ago when Gov. Jerry Brown started rolling out his gun control agenda. And now we have Newsom. I have enough gats to fill two standing safes, yet they’re nearly all off the radar because I bought, inherited, or built them before certain laws changed and doors were closed. Do I need to register them, since… Read more »

Finnky
Finnky
22 days ago

Just make sure the safes are concealed and that both you and your wife know where the easily retrieved registered gun is. If you get red flagged, definitely want to turn over the firearm they know about without offering cause to search your home. Don’t know and don’t want to imagine what sorts of RFL (ERPO) they have in CA.

State of my birth has become a scary place.

USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt
22 days ago

Uh? Seriously? By posting all of this information on an open forum on the Internet? You just told the EXACTLY where all your hardware is as well your PHOTO can be tracked as well as your address right to your computer iPod, cell phone and TV….. i haz a question : pics (reddit.com) You would do much better to form a coalition and retain Gotlieb with the 2nd Amendment Foundation and either overturn that unconstitutional rhetoric and / or have those chuckle-heads removed from office and replaced with those that WILL OBEY THEIR OATH OF OFFICE! Violation of Oath of… Read more »

Last edited 22 days ago by USMC0351Grunt
I Haz A Question
I Haz A Question
21 days ago
Reply to  USMC0351Grunt

Not so fast with your assumptions, Grunt. I access Ammoland via a hardline computer miles away from home, and always via TOR VPN, so for all any admin knows, I’m typing this from Europe or the Baltics. Furthermore, all my essentials (guns, silver, ammo, cash, etc.) are stored at two different and unrelated addresses located miles apart from each other. Finally, if you actually read my comment, you’ll see that I said I own everything legally. Grandfathered, yet legal, so there’s no violation of law. So even if some alphabet letter agency admin was able to somehow magically doxx me,… Read more »

bondmen
bondmen
22 days ago

Those hoplophobes holding the Mahalo sign triggered me up to and including a humuhumunukunukuapua’a!

Bob
Bob
20 days ago
Reply to  bondmen

Why do you want to denigrate the fish with the pig-faced nose?

Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago

Too any “conservative” copsuckers.

Mack
Mack
22 days ago

Maybe Hawaii would rather ignore Cohen v. California.

So maybe Choda’s attorneys should bring that Landmark SCOTUS opinion up for discussion.

Tank
Tank
22 days ago

Name one totalitarian regime that has ever been a champion of human rights for it’s citizens or thrived as a civilization or it’s culture ?

Just one ….

WI Patriot
WI Patriot
22 days ago

Go ahead, try it, see what happens…

james
james
22 days ago

Never take a plea or no contest. If they arrested him they should have arrested both men for using profanities. Looks like they may have violated his right to express himself with free speech.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  james

“Evenin’ guys. Could you keep it down? Thank you. Have a good evening.”

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Naaaa…it’s more fun to throw people on the ground, step on their backs while you handcuff them for saying dirty words. ENFORCERS are the problem.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

Probability that arrested guy didn’t bow to enforcer and that the arrest was really retaliation?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Dang.

Old grudges?

Finnky
Finnky
22 days ago
Reply to  james

It seems the accused was arrested for continuing to shout and use profanity after the police arrived while his neighbor was more circumspect. Regardless of what is right, also do what is smart. No matter how little respect you feel for the officers or the neighbor, address the police politely and (at least pretending) respect for their authority. Be firm, don’t brown nose, and explain that the neighbor started argument and you were doing your best to deescalate. Police do not typically arrest for allegations, but they witnessed Choda screaming profanity in quiet sleeping neighborhood. Don’t get me wrong –… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Finnky

“Police do not typically arrest for allegations”

Dude.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Almost 100% of domestic violence allegations result in an arrest with no real investigation being performed. When a government employee calls enforcers and lies about the actions of a non-government employee, the odds are that the non-government employee is going to get arrested (and video evidence is not likely to be considered as part of the enforcers’ “investigation”). After the non-government goes to court and provides evidence that the government employee lied, he is likely to be found not guility. However, the process is the punishment and the guilty party (the lying government employee) is unlikely to be charged with… Read more »

Last edited 22 days ago by JSNMGC
Tionico
Tionico
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

but this was NOT “domestic vilence” at all. Separate househuolds. HUGE difference. The supposition is thaat if Party of the First Part no lonber wants to ocntinue the riff, that one can simply exit. WHen you live in the same structure that often brings comllications. Something about no where to run nowhere to hide no escape.

Hollering over the fence is different territory. ANd shold be.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Tionico

I did not say the incident in the story was domestic violence.

Finnky wrote: “Police do not typically arrest for allegations”

I indicated arrests based on allegations are not uncommon.

Patriot Solutions agreed with me and he gave an example.

I agreed with Patriot Solutions and gave three more categories of examples.

You chose one of the three cateogories of examples I provided and mistakenly applied that one example back to the story.

Finnky
Finnky
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

You sure seem to have triggered the non-citizens. Every post gets heavily downvoted…

You certainly are right about domestic violence. When I was getting divorced my lawyer told me to be gone if cops showed up. Barring that I was to fake a broken arm, cops just want to deposit their ‘collar’ directly in jail so may switch their choice from arresting the man to arresting the woman in order to not have to stop by hospital on the way. Per lawyers advice, if cops show up at a domestic they are going to arrest someone.

Mack
Mack
22 days ago
Reply to  james

YES!

Never never.

uncle dudley
uncle dudley
22 days ago

When Hawaii wanted to join the United States they knew what the constitution and the bill of rights were before asking to become a state.
They should have no excuse of expanding laws and ideas beyond the what was in place and instill unjust and illegal actions above those documents.
Maybe they should leave the United States and become their own country as we don’t need the kind of thinking they are demanding of the residents on the islands.
Time to impeach them.

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
22 days ago
Reply to  uncle dudley

Maybe they should go on a purge and eliminate the psychopathic control freak politickshuns and enforcers that are infesting their island. 4GW coming to a neighborhood near you…SOON.

Larry
Larry
22 days ago
Reply to  uncle dudley

Naw. It was the same old ploy of “you can’t add two reliably Republican senators without adding two reliably Democrat ones,” except that particular cat wasn’t publicly out of the bag at the time. Hawaii was just the lucky winner of the “who’s gonna be Alaska’s beard” contest, because it was way more reliable than even Puerto Rico. The fedguv knew exactly what they were getting.

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
22 days ago

Boy is Ammo Land being swamped with boot licking little turd faced idiots? I see all these down votes for people who are telling the TRUTH. All of you TURDS take a hike and go play with yourself in a closet somewhere.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

They want “civilians” to walk the streets with their heads down and avert eye contact with enforcers. They love the “show me your papers” laws that even some of the most free states have.

They just need to push a little harder and the idiots who still think there are only a “few bad apples” will wake up.

I Haz A Question
I Haz A Question
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

A couple of years ago, I was traveling through AZ to visit a tourist town. Not even close to the Mexican border, yet I came around a bend in the road to find myself encountering a (according to a local store owner) new CBP kiosk stopping all northbound traffic returning from that famous tourist town. The Agent stopped me, asked me if I was an American citizen, and where I was traveling from/to. He was a bit perturbed when I told him I wasn’t going to answer his questions, and while we’re at it, since he was detaining me, for… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago

Nice. I’m surprised they didn’t wave you over to the “extra delay” parking space to punish you for not respecting their perceived authority.

We have tens of millions of people living in the U.S. illegally and some of these guys get off on bothering Americans simply for exercising their rights.

Last edited 22 days ago by JSNMGC
Larry
Larry
22 days ago

Here’s a reference to why this is such an unconstitutional s*-show, and an authenticated citation that nearly 2/3 of USA residents live within the 100-mile “no fourth amendment” border zone.
Plus, it’s from the ACLU, so you won’t get any pushback from the Marxist bigmouths.

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
22 days ago

The “State of Hawaii” isn’t behind this. The “State of Hawaii” is a FICTION. Some psychopathic control freak, NAME WHO IT IS, DECREED this. Some moron who puts his/her shoes on just like the rest of the people around them, has DECREED that if you have the audacity to argue with someone that you should be disarmed. Well, SHOOT THE ENFORCER who would try to pull this crap on you. SHOOT ALL OF THEM WHO COME UNDER COLOR OF “LAW” to disarm you and make you defenseless! TAKING your ability to defend yourself away is making WAR against you. Then… Read more »

swmft
swmft
22 days ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

better to die free than live under tyranny

PAF145
PAF145
22 days ago

What do you expect from a state that sends a weak mind like Hirono to D.C.?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  PAF145
JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Aw man, I’m sorry.

I forgot that gun control pushed by militiary veterans is ok.

Thank you for your service Tulsi!

Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

NSSF pimps some of the same crap, like “Fix” NICS, soon to be used against millions of vax refusenik veterans getting “other than honorable” discharges.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Yes.

Let’s not forget this veteran – see something, say something:

https://www.fox13news.com/news/desantis-hopes-red-flag-laws-will-help-thwart-future-shootings

By the way, that story no longer comes up in a simple search – had to dig for it.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Was that wrong? Should I not have posted that? I tell you, I gotta plead ignorance on this thing, because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here that that sort of thing is frowned upon… you know, cause I’ve posted in a lot of places, and I tell you, people do that all the time.

https://www.quotes.net/mquote/846809

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

This guy says you don’t understand – there is currently no law that says you can’t make credible, violent threats. We need red flag laws to take the guns first – you can hire a lawyer later and prove your innocent of a crime that wasn’t committed.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/08/11/rep-dan-crenshaw-explains-his-support-red-flag-laws/

Most people probably didn’t even know Dan was a veteran. He’s very humble about his “service.” Thank you, Dan.

What kind of hair product do you use?

Last edited 22 days ago by JSNMGC
Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Crenshaw’s a corrupt qu’ nt, Vichy R.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Damn. You replied too soon, now I can’t fix my typo.

I’m ashamed.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

101st Airborne weighs-in. He doesn’t think it should be mandated by the federal government. He thinks the federal government should encourage (pay money to) states to pass their own red flag laws:

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/italy-raphael-exhibit/2019/12/26/id/928517/

Doesn’t that sound nice?

He sounds so reasoable.

It’s gun control we can all agree on.

Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

A link to that article is what Ron will get next time he asks for another donation from me.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Ha!

Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Yeah! How you rike dat, Ron! You want red frag rist? Well F you!

Russn8r
Russn8r
21 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Just sent DeSantis the link and explained why it’s in lieu of another donation.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
21 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Nice. Please consider sharing the response if you receive one.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
21 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

GOA backs red flag laws

https://www.gunowners.org/rondesantis/

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
21 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

GOA praises DeSantis on carrying at church, but is silent on DeSantis’ support of red flag laws:

https://www.gunowners.org/fl06302021/

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
21 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

GOA claims DeSantis is a “pro-gun Champion.”

GOA remains silent when DeSantis enthusiastically encourages the use of red flag laws:

https://www.gunowners.org/alertfl03222016/

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
21 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Veteran group calls out fellow veteran Ron DeSantis for support of red flag laws and for encouraging greater use of those unconstitutional laws:

Arny
Arny
22 days ago

If I was this guy. I think I would leave for the mainland. Especially a gun friendly land. Looking at the current administration this could be his only warning. S. Korea testing will begin again, soon enough. I’m surprised it hasn’t already begun. lol

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Arny

If he is in favor of government price controls, I hope he moves to PA.

Anti-free market people are not wanted in red states.

Edited to add: lol

Last edited 22 days ago by JSNMGC
Arny
Arny
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Funny you still fail to understand the comment I made. And just so you know the 3 downvotes you have are not from me. Not even one. lol

Last edited 22 days ago by Arny
JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Arny

I didn’t think you downvoted.

There are lots of jabs at “civilians” who produce or market products and price them to market – just a little nudge back.

What are your thoughts on the free market, supply/demand, pricing for products that are in high demand, the right of people to price their products however they would like to, the right of people to buy or not buy products?

Tionico
Tionico
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

hey it its MY STUFF I can ask whatever I want for it, cuz its MINE. I might not get that number, and if that happenes I have to decide if I want the lower amount of money more than I want the stuff. I might be smart holding out for a yet higher price, cuz sooner or later I’ll have the only one left. On the other hand I can offer whatever I want to offer that tjhat thing.. if I don’t offer enough someone else will get it. If I offer too much I’ll end up with it,… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Arny

Arny,

If I failed to understand your comment, please explain.

Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago
Reply to  Arny

S. Korea testing?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago

Someone is angry you are not respecting his authority.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

They have squandered so much goodwill. It’s baffling.

Tionico
Tionico
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

ah they dont NEED any goodwill. They gots their paychecks and pensions.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Tionico

Apparently.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
23 days ago

Note: This enforcement action was conducted without the involvement of any federal enforcers. Local enforcers obeyed orders to enforce laws designed to punish certain firearm owners.

This same law would not be enforced against Tulsi Gabbard, the anti 2nd Amendment veteran.

Russn8r
Russn8r
23 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

I see at least one enforcer already downvoted you.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
23 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

I hit a few of his hot buttons in one post.

KenW
KenW
22 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Seems to be a lot of downvoting here this am.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  KenW

There are about a half dozen “bad apples” that love basking in the adoration of Sean Hannity (“99.99% of cops do a great job – they are heroes”). They also hate the free market.

They want an authoritarian police state with government controlled pricing, huge pensions for government employees, and no process for “civilians” to address grievances through the court system.

They will keep wanting all that until they don’t.

Just like in real life, not a “good apple” in sight. They stick together like gang members (who they look like more everyday).

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

ABSOLUTELY! The ARE gang members. All given special immunity because they wear a badge.We need PEACE officers, not “Law” enforcement officers. Maybe LAW enforcement should be called Forcing DECREES of psychopathic control freaks on you officers.

nogoodcops-higgs.png
Last edited 22 days ago by CourageousLion
JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

They don’t seem capable of change or weeding-out “bad apples.”

We have a few small-town enforcers driving around in blacked-out pickup trucks, wearing all sorts of “tactical” gear, black hat, etc. and generally acting like officious fools.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

So much video evidence available. Remember some of the illogical and emotional rants about youtube a few months back? They despise transparency. I hope that woman was able to get the attention of the county commissioners (or whoever controls the budget). The sheriff in the county I live in did a good job with speaking out publicly that he would not enforce the state health orders. However, at one meeting I was at, he mentioned how few staff he had and said how many square miles he was responsible for “patrolling.” I looked at the guy next to me and… Read more »

Last edited 22 days ago by JSNMGC
Finnky
Finnky
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Sad part about this ‘whole other country’ is that foreigners invading from east and west are worse than those coming from the south. Not saying I disapprove of Abbot’s initiatives to fill void left by Biden – but would prefer to see Trumps wall built on california’s border and with sams to prevent overflight.
May sound hypocritical coming from a reformed californian, but we are limited in our ability to assimilate and are getting overwhelmed.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Finnky

The things that need to be done to reduce people entering the country illegally are: Eliminate birthright citizenship (this is the real reason they are coming here and there is no reason the US should have birthright citizenship) Eliminate benefits (other than emergency care) for people living in the US illegally Implement, and enforce, a progressive program of fining employers who are employing people who are not legally allowed to work in the US. The fine per person should double each time a violation is found. Enforce visas The wall/fence is only marginally effective if the above things are not… Read more »

Tionico
Tionico
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

“birthright citizenship” is NOT a thing, and DOES NOT exist. Yes, that 14th article of Emmendment does establish citizenship by way of birth here.. but go and read that Article. it talks about being born here in a state, AND SUBJECT TO THE JURISDICTION THEREOF”. Swimming accross a river, taking a fun bike through the sagebruch in Texas, having your rickety boat break apart in the surf in San Diego, do NOT constitute “subject to the jurisdiction thereof”. Trump tried getting tha tmade clear, but a Federal judge (that rat robatd in Tacoma, if memory srves) “decided” oteherwise. Ye,s heavy… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Tionico

Birthright citizenship is the common language phrase given to idea that anyone born in the U.S. is a U.S. citizen (under current practice), irrespective of whether either of that child’s parents were U.S. citizens at the time of birth. I think you knew that and I’m well aware of the history and the “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” clause. Trump did very little to change the current practice. The rest of the Republican legislature did even less. Employers currently have the ability to ascertain whether an applicant is legally able to work in the U.S. They should be fined for… Read more »

Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Lookit all them downvotes. Is there that many deluge-immigration ‘Libertarian’ globalist meat puppets here? Or trolls paid by Bloomberg-Murdoch?

Eliminating benefits would help, but’s not the magic cure folks claim for illegal or legal over-immigration. Even without any form of benefit (welfare, K-12, roads, bridges, etc), folks would come by the millions until the quality of life here was crushed & squeezed to worse than places like Haiti. They could work under the table for a 1/10 of the going wage and they’d still be better off than in Rwanda.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r
  • Baby is not going to be a U.S. citizen.
  • Can’t work here.
  • No free food.
  • No free education.
  • No free routine health care.
  • Can’t overstay visa.

They will stop coming.

Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

It’s not lack of free goodies that would stop them coming. The only thing that will do that is zero-tolerance full enforcement & banning “birthright citizenship” for children of non-citizens.

I’m for eliminating the freebies, but that’s neither necessary nor sufficient to stop folks coming from Haiti, Rwanda & other s-holes.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Re-read my list.

Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

I read your list. I addressed your list.

How about you address the point.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

You said banning birthright citizenship – that’s on my list. Only three things on my list were freebies. I was agreeing with you. Full enforcement of all the things on the list (no birthright citizenship, no illegal job, no overstaying visas, no free food, no free education, and no free routine healthcare) would dramatically reduce the number of people desiring to come here. I’m all for the wall/fence, boats, horses, drones, horses, ATVs, airplanes, jeeps, etc., etc., but if the fundamental reasons they are illegally coming here for isn’t changed, the flow will never stop. Most Republican policiticians pretend the… Read more »

Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

You’re missing the point. Immigrants make an economic decision: Come here or not? If they’re better off coming than staying, they come. Compare two scenarios: 1) Open immigration, legal to work, but no freebies, no education for your kids even if born here. 2) Loads of freebies, but borders & hiring restrictions fully enforced, no “birthright citizenship”. Come or not? 1) Even with no freebies, the immigrant will make at least 10 times the income, and escape a deadly, oppressive S-hole into relatively free, secure, roomy country. The answer is yes for over half the world’s population. They’re coming, freebies… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

I have indicated:

  • No birthright citizenship (fully enforced)
  • No ability to work if not here legally (fully enforced)
  • Enforcement of visas
  • I’m all for border security

I’m not “over-relying” on elimination of freebies – they were only three of the six items on my list and I also stated I’m for border control.

Again, I think we are in agreement.

Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

One other enforcement tool:

Ban tax-deductibility of payments to illegal aliens.

That would be a yuge disincentive to hire invaders … IF laws were enforced, which they’re not. They’ve been subverted for decades.

NOTHING will work until the existing anti-invasion laws are enforced. We need another Ike Eisenhower. Instead we got narcissistic clown Trump.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Sure, throw it on the pile with all the other stuff that won’t get enforced.

I would be surprised if more than 1% of U.S. legislators (Democrats, Republicans, Independents, etc.) over the last 70 years were really interested in fixing the problem.

Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

P.S. Catch-22. Walls don’t enforce themselves. No law or tool does. Ike repelled millions of invaders with a tiny budget and just 1075 border patrol agents. He didn’t make excuses or whine for more money & agents. Reagan had all those tools and then some. He simply didn’t want to use them. His gross dereliction was intentional. The story about congress breaking a deal to enforce is ridiculous. The executive enforces, not congress. Reagan had ample tools to do the job. He pushed amnesty as a “moral” imperative, not as a sucker deal to “enforce later”. What good are new… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

They downvote because they are former enforcers or people who apologize for former enforcers.

They have no argument, so they mash that down button.

They don’t want people looking at youtube videos of low IQ, emotional enforcers acting like totalitarian goons.

In real life, they would arrest me.

It’s funny.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

These downvotes need to be rewarded. I want to applaud the actions of an ex-enforcer. He’s smart, he’s articulate, and he has convictions. He really is a hero. So far, so good? The problem is, this good citizen runs into four to six active duty enforcers – they are not too bright, they lie, and they attempt to abuse the good citizen’s rights. If the good citizen had not told them he was an ex-cop, he very well may have been arrested due to the emotional instability of the active duty enforcers. I’ll link to the video in a separate… Read more »

Last edited 22 days ago by JSNMGC
JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC
Arizona
Arizona
22 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Downvotes are from trolls lately. They work in crowds to try to influence discussion and algorithms, Deport all illegals, fine And JAIL employers who hire them, and no citizenship for offspring of illegals, as the law should be enforced.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Arizona

Uh-oh, you’re on their list. They don’t want readers to put these items in their search engine:

P.I. and Ex-Cop OWNS Clueless Cops on DashCam

19 Cops Quit “Special Duty Task-Force” Over Open Carry Confusion

They also don’t want readers to look at the hundreds of other videos that will pop up showing enforcers violating people’s rights.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

They don’t want readers to put this in their search engines:

“Video shows Miami Beach cops kicking suspect in rough arrest”

If people look at that video they will see a bunch of “bad apples” and not one “good apple” is anywhere in sight.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Here’s the heartbreaker they really don’t want readers to see:

“$3 Million Settlement – 2 Cops Charged 3 Resign – Corruption From The Top Down”

What kind of corrupt monsters do that stuff?

Why were only two charged?

Why didn’t all the “bad apples” lose their homes and all their other assets (including the ones they may have tried to hide)?

Did any of them go to jail or did the Fraternal Order of Police defend them?

Last edited 22 days ago by JSNMGC
JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Then there is always this guy:

“Officer Detains His Daughter’s Boyfriend”

That guy survived in a culture that tolerated him. His termination was contested by the Fraternal Order of Police.

Why didn’t he go to jail?

He acted that way while he video recorded himself. He didn’t think he was doing anything wrong. How did he act when he wasn’t being recorded?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

The enforcers told this guy he couldn’t video record them – right up until he told them he was a lawyer:

“POLICE lie to Uber Driver/Attorney”

Why aren’t they punished for abusing people’s rights and making up laws and trying to enforce those made-up laws?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
21 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Local Enforcer: Turn off that camera
Good “civilian”: No

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UQKkYWDUQ4&ab_channel=fiero600

Enforcers need to hear “no” more often.

Unfortunately, nothing happened to these enforcers, so they will keep attempting to violate the rights of “civilians.”

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
21 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

All those “apples” and not one good one.

It is statistically impossible for the “bad apples” to be only 0.05% of all apples. Stop believing the lies of enforcers and Sean Hannity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS2P2ait14g&ab_channel=WPLGLocal10

When there is a law requiring semiautomatic firearms to be registered, and local enforcers (as part of a federal “task force”) go to arrest your dentist, do you want them to do this to him when he complies with their demands?

Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

The Hobbits think they’re safe in The Shire.

Last edited 22 days ago by Russn8r
CourageousLion
CourageousLion
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

They will keep pushing until SURPRISE!!! The SAXON begins to hate. that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.” and how do they do that?   …military grade weapons in the hands of civilians. They are in those hands… Read more »

Finnky
Finnky
22 days ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

More than one purpose. Of course hunting provides great practice on shooting, tracking, stalking and concealment (ambush). All manner of recreational shooting (from plinking to tactical competition) are also good practice/training. Tools are not much use without skills. So other purposes are good – AND support primary purpose. When we enjoy something and have it for ongoing use, we are more likely to spend money to acquire the tools and to properly maintain them than if we are simply getting them as insurance for what we see as unlikely events. Were that my reason for having a firearm, I would… Read more »

Finnky
Finnky
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Didn’t keep the link, but found a series of YouTube videos of someone going to police stations across the country to request complaint forms. While I think several of his encounters resulted in disciplinary actions for assorted officers, the universality of obstruction, threats and general thuggery were astounding. All he was doing was entering the station and inquiring as to their procedure for filing a complaint. Responses were mild compared to what I would expect if he’d come in waving a pistol and attempting to shoot officers — but otherwise horrific. While he obviously cherry picked which recordings to share… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Finnky

There are hundreds of videos out there. Some are random people who recorded an interaction, some are people “auditing,” and some are enforcer body cams/vehicle cams/police station cams. I’ve posted some before, but some that are telling are: Enforcer beating an elderly worman with dementia, his colleague intimidating an eyewitness, him and his other colleagues laughing while playing back the body cam video and hearing the woman’s bone popping out of joint, and other colleagues attempting to bury the video evidence by tampering with records. Out of all the enforcers who participated or knew what was going on, 100% were… Read more »

Last edited 22 days ago by JSNMGC
JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

You’ve done all of that – haven’t you downvoter? People who followed in your footsteps continue to do it and the “good apples” rarely say anything.

It’s a hell of a mess.

Last edited 22 days ago by JSNMGC
JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Most enforcers despise cameras.

People in Australia began fighting back and the enforcers don’t want any evidence floating about:

https://twitter.com/TJ0057/status/1440999757078573057?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Live stream good, but phone connected to internet storage with remote cam/mic JBTs can’t see would be better than nothing. Vid can be posted later by friends. F FaceF**k. Can’t believe people still use it.

Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

You seem to reply to yourself more recently. Is our favorite LoLibertarian back to deleting his posts & running away like a hyena with a faux weenie?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Nope – just adding some additional info.

The deleter (at least the one I’m thinking of) is not a Libertarian – he’s a Republican who lacks critical thinking skills and emotionally reacts to criticisms of his heroes.

Russn8r
Russn8r
22 days ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Have any resister-refuseniks tried a phone connected to internet storage, with a remote cam/mic or two the JBT can’t see? Could make for lawsuit damages, though not having the phone may increase the risk of injury or murder by “LEO”.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
22 days ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Don’t know, but I recently saw a video of some guys who were arrested over nothing and their phones were taken. One of the phones was livestreaming and the cop wouldn’t let him take it.

The phones were taken into evidence and the one phone kept livestreaming as the cops made jackasses out of themselves back at the station. You can hear a phone call come and and someone tells the cops everything they have been saying has been broadcast live on the internet and that they should turn the phone off immediately.