ATF Issues Conflicting Responses About Warrantless Firearm Inspection

ATF Agents IMG ATFHQ-IG Public Domain
ATF Agents IMG ATFHQ-IG Public Domain

U.S.A.-(AmmoLand.com)- ATF’s severely underworked public information officers are flustered. A story we first published Monday about a surprise firearm inspection at a Delaware man’s home has gone viral, exposing their agents’ misdeeds and questionable tactics.

Now, ATF’s PIOs are answering questions from the national media and an irate Montana Congressman. Before, the PIOs didn’t even answer their phones.

The story chronicled the plight of a law-abiding Delaware man, who asked that his name not be published. Two ATF agents and a Delaware State Police trooper showed up on his front porch – unannounced – wearing tactical vests, t-shirts and dirty jeans. They pleaded with the homeowner to show them several of his firearms. One of the agents told the man they were investigating whether he had committed a “straw purchase,” since he had bought seven firearms since January. If they could just see his guns, they said, they would leave immediately and not have to return. They did not have a search warrant.

The homeowner’s security system captured a video of the encounter:

To be clear, no one from ATF commented for the story prior to publication – neither the Resident Agent in Charge of ATF’s Wilmington, Delaware field office, nor Amanda Hils, PIO for ATF’s Baltimore Field Division or anyone at ATF’s headquarters in Washington D.C.

Things changed on Tuesday after the story was published. Hils issued a quick statement:

On 2022-07-19 12:32, Hils, Amanda M. wrote:

Good afternoon, Lee — Thank you for reaching out and I appreciate your patience with my reply. ATF does not release the process in which it conducts investigations.

I hope you have a great day.

V/R

Amanda M. Hils

Public Information Officer

ATF Baltimore Field Division

Both the Washington Times and the Daily Caller began asking ATF questions about the incident. The ATF sent them similar statements:

“The ATF defended itself in a statement to The Washington Times, saying the agents’ actions were ‘entirely appropriate.’ ‘We are unable to comment on the details of any ongoing investigations; however, interviews are an entirely appropriate part of the investigative process for any law enforcement agency,” the Washington Times reported.

According to the Daily Caller:

“A spokesperson for the ATF said they ‘are unable to comment on the details of any ongoing investigations; however, interviews are an entirely appropriate part of the investigative process for any law enforcement agency.’”

Wednesday night, Mils sent another statement describing the process ATF uses to conduct investigations, which she had previously said was secret:

The Delaware State Police partners with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) via a task force model to help combat gun violence in our state by investigating potential illegal gun purchases made by individuals on behalf of others who are prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms, also known as straw purchases. At times, this leads to interviews conducted by task force officers, which are non-custodial, voluntary interviews done in full compliance will all applicable local, state, and federal laws. ATF and DSP remain committed in our mission to reduce violent crime and help make communities safer.

V/R

Amanda M. Hils

Public Information Officer

ATF Baltimore Field Division

Possible Congressional inquiry

The story caught the attention of at least one Congressman. According to the Washington Times, Montana Republican Rep. Matt Rosendale was not pleased, and he wants answers:

“The ATF must answer questions on why they decided to conduct an illegal search, especially since the homeowner had done nothing wrong. These actions by the federal government are unsettling, and they have no business going door-to-door to see who owns firearms. I fear that there will be more illegal inspections to come as the Left continues its assault on our 2nd Amendment rights. Congress should investigate this immediately.”

When he learned about the possible congressional inquiry, the anonymous homeowner said only, “Hell yes!”

Takeaways

ATF’s claim that these task force interviews are “voluntary” is laughable. Most folks are not attorneys, so when three armed men wearing tactical vests show up on their front porch unannounced, they don’t realize they can tell them to leave and slam the door.

ATF is using the public’s legal naiveté to their advantage. In fact, they’re counting on it. This is not law enforcement. It’s intimidation. The Delaware homeowner had done nothing wrong. He had the financial means to purchase a few firearms, which is a constitutional right guaranteed in the Second Amendment, so he bought a couple of guns. This is not a crime – at least not yet.

The fact that ATF declined to comment about the Delaware encounter because it was an “ongoing investigation” is ludicrous. What federal crime did the homeowner commit? Is there a Grand Jury investigating his lawful firearm purchases? Does he need a lawyer? If the agents had actual probable cause he committed a crime, they would have brought a search warrant rather than a page from an illegal gun registry.

It should come as no surprise that this encounter came just a few days after ATF’s new director, Steve Dettelbach, was sworn in. Dettelbach is notoriously anti-gun. When he ran unsuccessfully for Ohio Attorney General in 2018, he was endorsed by Barack Obama, Joe Biden and Everytown for Gun Safety. During his campaign for AG, Dettelbach called for reinstating the failed federal “assault weapon” ban and for universal background checks.

These warrantless home intrusions make it crystal clear where the new director is taking the agency. Under Dettelbach, the ATF is ready, willing and able to serve on the front lines of Joe Biden’s war on our guns.

Expect the worst and make ready.

This story is presented by the Second Amendment Foundation’s Investigative Journalism Project and wouldn’t be possible without you. Please click here to make a tax-deductible donation to support more pro-gun stories like this.


About Lee Williams

Lee Williams, who is also known as “The Gun Writer,” is the chief editor of the Second Amendment Foundation’s Investigative Journalism Project. Until recently, he was also an editor for a daily newspaper in Florida. Before becoming an editor, Lee was an investigative reporter at newspapers in three states and a U.S. Territory. Before becoming a journalist, he worked as a police officer. Before becoming a cop, Lee served in the Army. He’s earned more than a dozen national journalism awards as a reporter, and three medals of valor as a cop. Lee is an avid tactical shooter.

Lee Williams

 

 

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American

Ok. I finally feel that I have to jump in here. These ATF visits are real, and they are happening in many states. I have direct knowledge of them. I am a retired fed LE manager. These visits started at least as far back as January of this year. They always show up, ambush interview style, with three officers – sometimes two ATF agents and one local, sometimes one agent and two locals. Sometimes the team looks professional, sometimes they look like meth folks. When they show up, they may not be dressed battle-ready. They don’t enter the residence, but… Read more »

American

It would be nice if, when you block a comment, such as the one I submitted after spending time to write it, you would at least respond with a reason why. Going dark and hiding Facebook-style is a very bad look.

Bpjsurf
Laddyboy

I do not “go to UNKNOWN addresses” given as an answer. PUT IT IN WRITING IN THE COMMENT SECTION!

Tank

At the end of the day censorship of any person is a form of control regardless of whatever the allegedly justifiable excuse/reason for the censorship.

People who question the system in place & the scripted narrative are independent thinkers by in large & they should be the one’s feeding & fueling the fire with inquiries & comments & not censored b/c they think independently. Masonic system is continually being exposed & critically failing currently on it’s current azimuth.

Last edited 19 days ago by Tank
Wild Bill

I saw some paper trash in the street the other day. It was the Masonic system that did it.

Tank

Your lack of desire & inability to read esoteric sources coupled with your ego & continued willful ignorance isn’t an attribute.

Your definitely not a person who reads a lot.

Last edited 19 days ago by Tank
Ope

Tank,that’s an idiotic comment for you to make to Bill. There’s a couple other persons on this site that would be well deserving of those sentiments. Wild Bill is definitely not one of them. Have a really nice day.

Ope

Tank,that’s a ridiculous comment and a lie. That comment about Bill would definitely be applicable to two other persons on this site,but definitely not Wild Bill.

KC

The first step in dealing with ATF is asking if they have a search warrant. If the answer is no then the next question should be does your agency policy allow knock and talks. The phrase alone will throw them off their game, but when they answer yes then you have several choices to make. You can either stand there and shoot the bull with them or you can conform to their wishes or you can tell them to pound sand, get off your property or they will be trespassing and if they require further assistance they can speak with… Read more »

Don

Washington state requires a separate handgun purchase form. I had state agents come to the store to inquire on a couple occasions. One was a young guy buying lots of handguns. I pointed out to the agent that the man was building a fine collection of Smith and Wesson handguns. Once I pointed out that each gun was a unique model and caliber, the agent said that made sense and that was the end of the enquiry. I had one man put on a NICS shutdown. He was buying and selling several guns per week. He was acting as a… Read more »

Ope

He didn’t abuse any system,you did.

Stag

So you snitched to the feds about someone exercising their rights and participating in free trade. Nice job, Tory.

jfrich

Without a Warrant it’s a Home Invasion, and the So Called Agents should be Treated as Such!

Russn8r

So called cops too.

American

Ok. I finally feel that I have to jump in here. These ATF visits are real, and they are happening in many states. I have direct knowledge of them. I am a retired fed LE manager. These visits started at least as far back as January of this year. They always show up, ambush interview style, with three officers – sometimes two ATF agents and one local, sometimes one agent and two locals. Sometimes the team looks professional, sometimes they look like meth folks. When they show up, they may not be dressed battle-ready. They don’t enter the residence, but… Read more »

Deplorable Bill

Tyranny and treason and illegal search and seizure under color of law are several of the laws that are clearly broken here. The agents have no legal right to even know that guns, much less multiple guns, had been purchased. Their only LEGAL access to 4193’s come AFTER a crime has been committed. For those who don’t remember their American history, we went to WAR with England over exactly these same things. That is why we have laws making them illegal. Two out of the three above mentioned offences carry the death penalty because they are not just offences against… Read more »

StLPro2A

Oh, Lee, you little tease!!!! And, how did this contact end??? LEOs went away?? Victim acquiesced, gave up his Freedom, Liberties, Rights, surrendered his Fifth rights??? SWAT and armored truck arrived??? House door breached, tear gassed, burned to the ground, SWATTED???? LEO in video flat out lied about having to investigate single “Multiple Firearm Transfer” submission. Per local FFLs, a “Multiple Firearm Transfer” does not have to be followed up on. It is nothing more than there were multiple firearms transferred. Should there be numerous Multiple Gun Transfer forms being entered repeatedly, then they may investigate, but not for a… Read more »

Last edited 21 days ago by StLPro2A
Tank

Für Ihre Sicherheit” or “IT’S FOR YOUR SAFETY.” “It’s for your own safety” has been the Battle cry of Masonic Zionism Tyrant Marxist – Fascist’s since Rome. “Things are the way they are b/c they were the way they were.” Sir Fred Hoyle “This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.” Plato No gubMINT can guarantee your safety or survival as a citizen. The “Human Condition” has never been plumbed for a reason. All great Masonic empire’s in twistory have used Communism/Socialism/Fascism before their big purge … Conspiracy… Read more »

Last edited 21 days ago by Tank
Wild Bill

The Masons’ history does not go back to Rome. Many great empires predate the Masons, and would not have been tolerated in those empires.

Bill S

Mason history goes back to the Middle Ages (5th to 14th century) at the time the Roman empire was collapsing. It’s easy to research.

Tank

No sense in any substantive reply sense you obviously do NOT research, know or even remotely understand tenets of Masonry, the symbols, Rome’s real Mithra worship, Pantheon dogma/gestalt, entheos meaning, Hermetic Alchemy, twistory of how things actually came about vs. your incorrect & ignorant preconceived cognitive bias / dissonance. If I tied half my brain behind my back it still wouldn’t be fair. That’s how far behind & ignorant your comments are.

Your not a reader is Baccarat crystal clear.

Last edited 20 days ago by Tank
Tank

If you actually research you would have already known that ‘Nimrod” was the first FM according to FM dogma & writings in their own published books. That fact which you failed to cite or remotely acknowledge would have easily predated your Roman Empire comment. The first biblical mention of Nimrod is in the Table of Nations.[4] He is described as the son of Cush, grandson of Ham, and great-grandson of Noah; and as “a mighty one in the earth” and “a mighty hunter before the Lord”. This is repeated in the First Book of Chronicles 1:10, and the “Land of Nimrod” used as a synonym for Assyria or Mesopotamia, is… Read more »

Last edited 19 days ago by Tank
Boom

We are being bred out.

Russn8r

And bled out.

Ed

Get off my porch, get off my property and don’t come back…

Boz

l have 45 acres and a shoveI.

Wild Bill

If you go to all the work of burying them, then the all the little woodland nibblers will not be able to destroy the evidence.

swmft

all the woodland nibblers leave bone ,a chipper and a deep hole gives a tree a good start

Don

If you bury your guns, you don’t have access to them for everyday uses. “They” have won when the shovels come out.

Boom

That’s not what he was referring to..

swmft

not really ,and boz a long arm excavator works much better

American

Ok. I finally feel that I have to jump in here. These ATF visits are real, and they are happening in many states. I have direct knowledge of them. I am a retired fed LE manager. These visits started at least as far back as January of this year. They always show up, ambush interview style, with three officers – sometimes two ATF agents and one local, sometimes one agent and two locals. Sometimes the team looks professional, sometimes they look like meth folks. When they show up, they may not be dressed battle-ready. They don’t enter the residence, but… Read more »

Last edited 21 days ago by American
American

Cancel

Last edited 21 days ago by American
Paul1911ACP

Is it just me that notices when the overlords start a crime control program they go after the law abiding citizen, not the criminals in the cities? Notice they call it GUN CONTROL and never CRIME CONTROL. It is easier to make political hay going after low hanging fruit (Lawful citizens that will comply) than criminals that will shoot them. And it looks good to the anti-gunners!

Arny

ATF knocks on door.
Asks to see firearms.
Homeowner says,
Yeah I’ll be right back.
pow pow pow.
WTF just happened ?
They may want to rethink their strategy.
Just saying.

GomeznSA

Hmm, had a thought after moving to another story so had to return. When the (supposed) bat said up front that the home owner hadn’t done anything wrong, the very next question should have been: ‘then why are you here?’ – followed by ‘who sent you?’ and then ‘how did you get your information?’.
That should have been the end of the encounter but unfortunately most of us don’t think fast enough to do so on the spur of the moment. That I didn’t think of this immediately shows that we aren’t always as quick as we should be.

RicktheBear

As Lee noted, their presence is intimidating. Even more so in this circumstance given their numbers and attire. When a citizen believes that he has done nothing illegal, it is reasonable to just answer their questions so that they’ll go away. Been there, done that.

Deplorable Bill

True, but the point is they have no legal right to be there in the first place. They have committed several crimes as evidenced on the video just by being there. Who’s to say they are real cops? They don’t deserve answers. They have no business knowing what you may or may not have. They deserve to be arrested, jailed and tried for there numerous crimes.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Arm up and carry on

Wild Bill

You are going to love this. The ATF Agent was at the house to confiscate a shotgun.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yfp-t&ei=UTF-8&p=ATF+agent+James+Burk+video#id=1&vid=8c091b041a5ef3d720daae9d942f780b&action=click

I sure hope this works

Deplorable Bill

Now that atfe agent is suing the cops. Too bad he didn’t do something to give the cops an excuse to shoot. The atfe is famous for treating people roughly even to the point of assault and murder on live national television but, to my knowledge, not one has ever been tried for his/their crimes. Anyone can go to someone’s door and say they are a cop or a fed and try to CON someone into giving up their gear so, the lady was right to call the cops and the cops were right not to trust the corrupt atfe… Read more »

Deg4u

I sure hope this will happen more often when this rouge atf tries to be police. Good police detained atf agent hahaha.

Wild Bill

Yeah, if this is the kind of guy that BATFE sends, door to door, to confiscate firearms … then we have little to fear.

Ope

Bill,plus in TEXAS Governor Greg Abbott signed TX HB 2622 into law along with constitutional carry and many other really great bills. TEXAS has sanctuary status and local,city ,state police depts,etc..will not cooperate with feds on any of their treasonous and unconstitutional BS. Most every Southern red state has similar legislation. We have nothing to worry about all !

Wild Bill

Go Texas!!

Russn8r

If TEXAS (!) & ABBOTT (!) are so pro-2A & you have CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY (!) & NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT AT ALL (!), then why are nearly 50 innocents dead in Uvalde & El Paso?

JSNMGC

Ope (Will/TEX/et al.), Texas is a great state and there are a lot of great Texans; however, ignoring the facts (about Texas and the south in general) doesn’t make them go away. It has to be frustrating for all the good Texans who are working their asses off in the political process to see people who do nothing but engage in your type of drivel. Texas has issues, as does every state: TEXAS had “no issue” when California had “may issue” – thanks to TEXAS enforcers. TEXAS has had way more Democrat governors than Republican. A TEXAN Republican created the BATFE. A… Read more »

Last edited 19 days ago by JSNMGC
Don

The officers did not break any laws. Police can come onto your property, knock on the door to talk with you. You have the right to remain silent or politely tell them to leave. Just like on a sidewalk, a cop can approach you and ask to talk with you. You don’t need to talk with the officer. Just be polite and say you have nothing to say.

Ope

When that ATF trash comes onto your property inquiring about and wanting to see your firearms WITHOUT A WARRANT you politely tell them to go to hell and get off your property. Since they are also trespassing on private property tell them politely they have two minutes to be completely out of sight.

Deplorable Bill

Nope, front porch is considered domicile.
They had access to info available only on a 4473 which they are not allowed access to UNLES a crime has been committed
They are trespassing.
they are treasonous
they are tyrannical
4th amendment-illegal search and seizure
ALL of this under COLOR of law
ALL of this without a warrant
They have done plenty enough to be hung for

Arm up and carry on

Stag

“Fuck off, redcoat” is also an acceptable response.

JSNMGC

Don, you have previously stated you would enforce yet more never-ending gun control laws against your fellow countrymen if you were still a “municipal” enforcer in the state of Washington. You declined to comment if there was any law you wouldn’t enforce. 

It’s not surprising you would support the actions of these three goons. Is “legal” the only standard you recognize? Do you support the “predictive policing” program used by the Pasco County Florida Sheriff Office (note to all: Pasco County is a somewhat rural county, in a red state, that voted overwhelmingly for Trump, and “the sheriff was elected”).

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Watch-Florida-Sheriff-Terrorize-Families-because-of-an-Algorithm-/5-2566987/?page=1

Stag

“F*ck off, redcoats!” is also an acceptable response.

swmft

the guy saw them come up on a ring camera , should have waited and answered them through the phone

lynnard

the need for the 2nd amendment is more important every day.

2gats

Do they EVER do this 8n the projects?????

hippybiker

Of course not! The new entitled class would get free lawyers and sue! God damn useless eaters!

2gats

Prosecute these assholes and the atf as a whole under 18USC 242.

Disband atf.

REQUIRE ALL .GOV PARASITES TO PUBLISH THEIR HOME ADDRESSES AS A CONDITION OF A TAXPAYER FUNDED SALARY

nrringlee

ATF is very sorry. Very sorry indeed. Very sorry they got caught and outed.

JSNMGC

Yes, there is a reason law enforcement fought to ban video recording of them. They tried for years using every dumb reason they could come up with to try to squash video recording. There are thousands of videos available for all to see of enforcers doing bad things (and in almost all cases there are multiple enforcers present, so 100% of the enforcers involved are bad).

This victim did the country a great service by video recording.

Last edited 21 days ago by JSNMGC
Beowulf

Perhaps these agents should quit harassing law abiding gun owners and knock on Obama and Holder’s doors if their looking for gun runners.

TGP389

Or Hunter’s door if they’re looking for 4473 violations.

musicman44mag

Maybe he is doing the same thing that I am. He hears the BS and knows that it is going to get tighter and harder to buy a firearm so he is getting them before the laws come down. I have never owned a shot gun and never really felt the need to but since OreGONEISTAN has decided to put a new law up for vote that would take away semi auto shotguns I want one more than ever now. I just bought a Glock 20 for bear protection because of the power of the round and the amount it… Read more »

Our Legacy III

I feel as though these libtards are trying to provoke a violent response out of the gun community. I mean, how could they not be? Everything I hear through conservative media and mainstream media is aligned with that thought. I’ve learned at a young age that when the bullies do not leave you alone, you punch them in the mouth and make them regret doubting your capabilities and your resolve. The last thing I want to do is take the bait but at some point, if we cannot win these elections, we will have to fight to defend our constitution… Read more »

Last edited 21 days ago by Our Legacy III
Carbuilder

My question is, how did they have the serial numbers of the firearms purchased. It’s illegal for the federal government to keep a firearms owner/serial number database. When a multiple sales report is issued to the CLO it does NOT have any serial numbers attached to it.

So how did they illegally have the serial numbers of this guy’s firearms?

musicman44mag

Now it’s all kept in a database and electronic. They will have the information forever. ATF is requiring all of the forms be scanned and downloaded to a database that ATF has, because it’s easier to manage. If you read Ammoland often, you would have read an article where the ATF has over 5 billion gun sales records on hand. They have kept an illegal database all along but now the left is so brazen and believes that they are at turning point to where they will win whatever they throw at us as far as keeping records, taking away… Read more »

musicman44mag

waiting for approval. No cuss words, no call to arms, nothing controversial that is not the truth in what I wrote and no attacks on the individual I responded too.

2gats

They got the info from the multiple purchase in less than 5 days notification

Carbuilder

Per my local FFL, they don’t include the serial number when informing about multiple purchases. Original article said they(ATF) had serial numbers.

Don

When I was doing the reports, they asked for the serial numbers.

GomeznSA

Car – the bats recently admitted that they have almost one BILLION firearms transaction records. But they claim it is just for statistical purposes or some other twaddle that they can buffalo the sheeple with. Never mind that as you observed, they are not legally allowed to retain those records.
BTW – that number tells me that there are a LOT more legally owned guns in circulation than they are willing to admit to. IOW they will need a whole lot bigger truck when they try to start the confiscating……………….

Don

On the multiple purchase form the dealer sends in has the serial numbers. Then the agents can visit the dealer and look through the log books.

Montana454Casull

The cowards all ran and hid when unarmed citizens took the capital by force on January 6th . What the hell will these spineless basturds do when pissed off Americans show up armed and ready for battle ?

musicman44mag

What they will do is learn what the word insurrection really means.

Wild Bill

I don’t think that they took the capital by force. I think it was peaceful protest. I saw a video of Capitol Hill police letting them in. The only shots fired were by the government at unarmed people.
But I agree with the rest of it.

Don

The attack on the capitol was violent.

Russn8r

Only the part led by Ray Epps.

Wild Bill

The protesters were not armed and burned nothing to the ground. Only the Capitol Hill police fired shots and killed people.

Bill

Remember Ruby Ridge and Waco and a couple of other incidents. The results when a private citizens requires the BATFE to produce a search warrant usually end in disaster (for the citizen).

swmft

like all cowards they came with 100s to get one waco they used tanks because people fought back ,wonder what they do when people destroy tanks bomb an area acceptable collateral damage?

GomeznSA

Remember that swallow has already stated that they have nukes, and so has slow joe.
I’m still trying to figure out how any one deplorable is such a threat to them that they are willing to even consider using SWAT or SEALs or Rangers or armor and attack helicopters and even nukes because that deplorable DARES to not comply. It really makes you wonder just how high the body count would be for them to get the total control that they want.

Wild Bill

Yes, the socialist marxists have all the levers of power. We must quietly get control; and then get them to rebel.

Wild Bill

So now we know their tactics. Let us prepare.

Pgtips

From the video: “The idea is that when you purchase more than two guns at a time it generates a multiple sales report, and it comes to us, and we have to check them out,” the agent says. “That’s all that is. You did nothing wrong – absolutely zero. I noticed you were stopped in Philly, though, with one of your guns?” It’s this line ***I noticed you were stopped in Philly, though, with one of your guns?*** that triggered this. Not that it makes it any better, but it was multiples+reported LEO stop (and perhaps also + it was… Read more »

musicman44mag

Ya, don’t be trafficking firearms, leave that to the dirty cops that do it for extra bucks when they come on a crime scene and take guns and not report them or the real number of drugs that should have been confiscated. Have plenty of that going on in kommiefornia.

I’m not saying I support the straw purchase but what I am saying is clean your own house before you come to sweep mine.

Roland T. Gunner

It is very common for non uniformed officers from whatever agency to take a local, uniformed officer with them, when interacting with the public; especially when the non uniforms are not in business attire.

Ope

The homeowner says “Hell yes” about the inquiry and investigation. But why the did he comply with any of that BS.at all ? If there’s no search warrant there’s not anything to even talk about,… except, “you’re trespassing get off my property”.

JSNMGC

“The homeowner says ‘Hell yes’ about the inquiry and investigation. But why the did he comply with any of that BS.at all ? If there’s no search warrant there’s not anything to even talk about,… except, ‘you’re trespassing get off my property’.” ~ Ope (Will/TEX/et al.) Because three armed government goons (one of whom was not a fed) did everything they could to make it appear that he had to comply. You are very familiar with this tactic because you used it yourself: “I need you to . . . “ Americans have been brainwashed into thinking armed government employees… Read more »

Last edited 21 days ago by JSNMGC
Wild Bill

And then the long wait begins. Waiting for the BATFE to sucker punch you.

JSNMGC

What would you have done?

Wild Bill

Opened the gate and let Dewey, the bull, out.

JSNMGC

They would shoot Dewey multiple times in the gut and he would die a somewhat slow, painful death.

And then the long wait begins. Waiting for the BATFE to sucker punch you.

Wild Bill

I can always count on you to fail to recognize a joke.
And you don’t know much about fast, huge, vicious farm animals.

Last edited 21 days ago by Wild Bill
JSNMGC

No need to get nasty.

You seemed to disagree with my suggestion, I merely asked what you would have done.

I didn’t think you were serious about Dewey, I was just rolling with it.

Rural county sheriff deputies in a red state have already demonstrated how bulls are taken care of (and ranchers who want to do it the right way):

https://www.foxnews.com/us/idaho-deputies-who-shot-killed-rancher-wont-face-charges

Wild Bill

Nasty? I made a joke. You failed to recognize it. I see that you are trying to lead me into your typical quibble. For the benefit of all the other readers, I will not follow.

JSNMGC

Nasty:

“I can always count on you to fail to recognize a joke.”

You are the one who jumped in – I’m not trying to lead you anywhere.

Ope

Bill,the readers here on Ammoland really do appreciate that.

Russn8r

Duh HUH. They SHORE DO!

willyd

Modern Day NO SENCE OF HUMMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wild Bill

Yes, and I should have known better.

Russn8r

Apparently you have a great sense of HUMMER.

Russn8r

You troll him, then trash him when he replies. NICE

Wild Bill

No, it is just that his logic is so poor.

Russn8r

No, it’s just that you have a bone for him and you indulge yourself. It’s childish.

Wild Bill

Have it your way.

Russn8r

Who do you think you’re kidding. Everyone can see it.

JSNMGC

Thanks.

He’s frustrated.

Russn8r

At least he’s got a fan posse: Opey-Dope!

Bill

The 0300 knock on the front door and mumbled “Federal Officers with a search warrant; open up”, immediately door. Shortly after that both dogs would be shot ‘to protect the officers”, if the owner grabbed a gun he too would be shot “to protect the officers”. Wife and kids handcuffed kneeling on the floor. After nothing illegal was found, the exiting BATF agent would mumble: “Sorry, nothing illegal found”. Family would be left to rebuild the house or move to a safer location like Costa Rica or Panama!

Wild Bill

A copy of the warrant and a list of things siezed must be left at the location. That is where your attorney begins.
Also the warrant and list of things siezed goes back to the federal magistrate who will demand an explanation as to why nothing was found.
Then your attorney gets a copy of the affidavit that supported the warrant, and he looks for untruths. Even one little untruth.

musicman44mag

I had a conversation with a law enforcement officer about this very subject. He made sure to let me know that if you give them a hard time or don’t comply that you will be on their list and you will have nothing but problems from that point on. Real ones and made up ones.

Maybe he knew that or maybe he was smart enough to know that he had the camera and it would be the perfect opportunity to show how we are being tracked. I’m glad he did it the way he did.

JSNMGC

Ope (Will/TEX/et al.) previously explained how he would do just exactly what the enforcer told you.

Ope (Will/TEX/et al.) indicated he would seek retribution (using his enforcer authority) against someone with whom he had a political disagreement. He went into detail explaining how he would pull the person over for a broken tail light and then use dumb enforcer tricks to attempt to purposely escalate the situation to the point he believed he could legally justify “lighting up” the person.

Last edited 21 days ago by JSNMGC
musicman44mag

I once had an officer that was pissed because I didn’t pull over right away and drove down the road about a quarter mile before pulling over. He asked me why I didn’t pull over right away and I told him because I didn’t think it was safe. He told me that I was disrespecting the law and his authority and was screaming at me so hard that he accidentally spit on my suit. He was trying to provoke me into doing something I would regret. He wrote me up for evasion along with doing a kommiefornia stop at the… Read more »

Ope

Music,I’m really glad everything worked out for you. Some of them left coast cops can be a caution at times.

JSNMGC

“Music,I’m really glad everything worked out for you. Some of them left coast cops can be a caution at times.” ~ Ope (Will/TEX/et al.) Even for a “myth maintainer” like you, that’s funny. Ammoland readers can go to youtube and type in: Texas Cop; Alabama Cop; Mississippi Cop; Florida Cop; Georgia Cop; South Carolina Cop; Etc. Watch cops shoot people who shouldn’t be shot, lie, try to enforce laws that are not laws, intimidate people who did nothing wrong, beat elderly women, steal evidence, alter evidence, fabricate evidence, cover for fellow dirty enforcers, etc., etc. They do bad things while… Read more »

Last edited 21 days ago by JSNMGC
Wild Bill

Millions of law enforcement contacts per day and that is all you can come up with. You provide too small a sample to prove your allegations.
We have a system that punishes cops for misdeeds on a case by case basis. Our whole justice system is based upon a fair trial on a case by case basis. Why would one want to replace that with a blanket accusation?
You get the presumption of right action everyday, why deny that to others?

JSNMGC

You brought up that meaningless metric (as it relates to unconscionable acts by enforcers) before, Wild Bill. I suspect most people whose rights are violated don’t care if an enforcer didn’t violate the rights of the prior people he interacted with over the last month.   For example, an enforcer has 199 interactions with the public in a month while on duty: 60 discussions about fishing/hunting/pick-up truck preferences/best place for biscuits and gravy/etc. with guys at the local gun shop/hardware store; 50 traffic stops; 40 flirtations with diner waitresses; 25 random calls to people who want the government to fix… Read more »

Wild Bill

You can not use the nominal to prove the general. Your sample is too small. Take a class.

JSNMGC

Do you find it easier to assign a position to someone and then argue against the position which you created?

Your defense of bad enforcers is disgusting.

JSNMGC

There is a video of an enforcer doing a pit maneuver on a pregnant woman who was clearly complying and waiting for a safe place to pull over. The enforcer flipped her car over and almost killed her and the baby. The most egregious crime in America is not respecting the authority of a government employee. The video that the Grunt re-posted is a good example. The local cop didn’t care about a fed hassling a “civilian” – both the fed and the local cop were outraged that the other was not respecting their authority. There are other videos out… Read more »

RF

Up voted you twice yet the down vote total didn’t change. Odd, wouldn’t you think?

Ope

RF,I think that could be because I downvoted it at the same time. Try again now and it might take.

Russn8r

No, OpeTEXBruceWill, it’s because your pathetic sock puppet posse downvoted at the same time.

swmft

you cant up vote twice without more than 1 account

Russn8r

OpeTEXBruceWillFordWill et ilk, who has 20 sock accounts, complains about sock accounts. NICE!

JSNMGC

Thanks.

As you upvoted, Ope may have been using his multiple accounts to downvote. The system has some quirks as to when it refreshes the the net votes.

swmft

when I was working dea we had more than a few shootouts with local cops ,that someone on one side or the other started a pissing match, on meth lab busts I either looked GQ or like a bum depended where and what we were doing locals were only included if we KNEW department did not have rodents ,and most did. I remember one raid,no locals customs fbi dea atf secrete service , all because this grow house was protected by police and they were exchanging pot for counterfeit money and shipping the counterfeit money to new york , someone… Read more »

JSNMGC

Interesting. What state?

swmft

florida , the week before there was a meth lab in a nice residential area that blew up,made several houses in the neighborhood condemned for damage,

Last edited 19 days ago by swmft
JSNMGC

Thanks.

What a mess.

Wild Bill

You have the best relatable personal anecdotes! Where are you from in Mn?

swmft

and before anyone blows a gasket…of the agents I met (all but 1 or 2 retired or dead) around 30 were down right criminals and nothing was done to most of them 1 was committed after he killed a secrete service agent whos car he was riding in to a raid. so yea law enforcement does its best to hide dirty laundry, not clean it up

Wild Bill

They must be effective, never heard any of this before.

swmft

the nutcase played Russian roulette with a semi auto if you dont know ask
and it was in the papers but written like an accidental discharge
was searching for the article but so hard to find things that were pre internet many were never converted with ocr , and agents names are never given if it may compromise something

Last edited 19 days ago by swmft
swmft

the dirt is harder to hide now, than it was before cell phones and the internet. many things that we hear about today would never have been in national news ,road rage incident with broward sheriffs officer and a highway patrol officer never would have been national difference from 2012 to now is unbelievable , in the 70s 80s you almost never heard of stuff across jurisdictions, let alone states. mcduffee was the point where that started to change (remember the riots?) fun times we had evidence storage in the area of miami they burned

Wild Bill

Maybe it was said. Maybe it wasn’t. Maybe it was true, maybe not. You can not even connect the names affirmatively. So much nothing.

JSNMGC

It was written.

Ope = Will = TEX, despite you pretending to not know.

Last edited 19 days ago by JSNMGC
Wild Bill

It was written… does not make a thing true.

john

The 2D Internet we are all presently using will be replaced by a 3D, fully immersive digital world Internet. The metaverse will change how we learn, how we earn our livings, and how we connect to one another, just like the emergence of the 2D Internet did in 1995. The metaverse is evolving out of the gaming world Will the metaverse replace the real world? In simple words, the possibilities with the metaverse are endless. As the metaverse concept is starting to incorporate Web3 technology enabled through blockchain technology, the future metaverse would be something very similar to our real world in… Read more »

Wild Bill

I tried to bale my hay meadow in the meta verse, but nope, it is still out there.

swmft

smoke more dope and take some anti depressants, that is what is being pushed , people that do for themselves are not wanted

Wild Bill

Yeah, that last part could be a problem.

Wild Bill

I’m thinking that any computerized voting is a recipe for cheating.
I’m sure that all the young people will get sucked into the scam, but the meta verse will not produce or harvest food, transport goods, or build housing. It will allow people sit on couches, look no farther than 16 inches, and get programmed by socialists. I could be wrong.

john

That is of no interest to the elite. There effort is to move the population into sanctuary cities The message is also clear population control is easier when folks are all together. Again it is there message not mine

swmft

it takes less people with guns to control population without guns

Wild Bill

Yes, I understand, and no disrespect to you, but I can not think of any reasons to risk ranch funds investing in that technology.

swmft

they will take the ranch on some trumped up bs if you wont sell for their offer imminent domain

musicman44mag

In some states you are right but in others you can challenge it and take it to court to get fair market value. You will lose your land but you don’t have to take a loss. The only unfortunate thing about that is now there are so many youngsters that believe that the government should own and run everything that you could lose. 25 years ago that was not the case when I served on a jury for a case that was on imminent domain but there were some demonrats in there. I made it my job to show them… Read more »

swmft

and someone connected would have gotten richer
and I believe with money you can challange it anywhere that is why they go after cash poor people

Last edited 19 days ago by swmft
Wild Bill

You mean to say that investing in meta verse technology will become mandatory? Ya think so?

swmft

they are making cash transactions harder and harder , they want a record of every thing you do ,when europe went to euro they set a date where old currency would no longer be exchanged, trunk full of money hidden in attic is just a curiosity now so yea they will control what is done with your money ,barter is fast becoming only safe transaction they are making cash transactions harder and harder , they want a record of every thing you do ,when europe went to euro they set a date where old currency would no longer be exchanged,… Read more »

Last edited 19 days ago by swmft
john

Just a thought I was in SC last week even parking is now a text message. The smartphone is going to be the way people will have to pay in the not so distant future. There were no cash signs up in shops only credit card or your cell phone app,On the other hand the private airport to fuel up would only take cash for fuel. When the elite here in the states give us a few days to turn the cash into the banks without penalty then it will be time to worry about gold and silver how that… Read more »

swmft

barter gold and silver guns ammo these will be underground currencies , remember in the 30s holding gold was outlawed

john

It might one day if you want to vote or interact with government. The commercial shows a women learning open heart surgery. Not my thing going forward I am still a realist that loves hands on the joy of living in this reality.

musicman44mag

Absolutely spot on. The NWO pattern.

Finnky

Historically tightly packed masses of people have been breeding grounds for disease. One of the reasons city people tend to more often be sticklers for cleanliness.

Modern issue is ease of travel means disease may travel out into rural areas as well as wiping out the city.

In any case, pushing people closer together does vastly increase likelihood of high mortality pandemics. Wear your seatbelts, it’s going to be a bumpy ride :).

swmft

mail in computerized take your pick of fraud they stuff ballot boxes too have for years. why do you think good people do not win

musicman44mag

After this last election, I don’t doubt that at all.

Wild Bill

Mail in is more difficult and leaves collectable evidence, but I pick in person voting.

Last edited 21 days ago by Wild Bill
swmft

not so sure about that ,Me and a lot of my friends received mail in ballots in the last week…..have never asked for one rural route mail not

musicman44mag

I don’t think your wrong at all. Glad I am old.

Arny

Yeap the recipe is already written it has & is being used.

IT-ISAC Global Security issues in election & agriculture.PNG
Last edited 21 days ago by Arny
Arny

When will someone (journalist) ask these people some hard questions ?

IT-ISAC SCREENSHOT.png
Our Legacy III

I feel as though these libtards are trying to provoke a violent response out of the gun community. I mean, how could they not be? Everything I hear through conservative media and mainstream media is aligned with that thought. I’ve learned at a young age that when the bullies do not leave you alone, you punch them in the mouth and make them regret doubting your capabilities and your resolve. The last thing I want to do is take the bait but at some point, if we cannot win these elections, we will have to fight to defend our constitution… Read more »

Wild Bill

Yes, if they can get conservatives to revolt, then they can use our own armed forces against us, and federal law enforcement agents to arrest conservative leaders … that may not survive the arrest.

john

REMOVING FIREARMS FROM AMERICANS IS NEEDED TO FULFILL THE GLOBAL AGENDA The upcoming elections in November of 2022 The public is now being prepared that election fraud never took place. This mock committee of gobale elite politicians continues to push that propaganda. We can argue about the past who can bring the future change needed to correct the direction of this country. That is what we the conservatives law abiding Americans need to focus on. The elite have been installing people into the alphabet agencies for years they have been at war destroying Americans freedoms while most of us were… Read more »

Wild Bill

If those who would disarm Americans hold their breath … they’ll turn mighty blue. One of the things that we can do to protect ourselves is to buy extra food, and stash extra cash.

john

Watch for the interjection of this technology daily! Bill Gates wants all the farms in the United States today 270 thousand acres have changed into his name. He believes that protein grown in the lab is the next step in global farming. This is about genocide on a level that will be unprecedented covid was just a test run still in progress. Yes we can store food water ammo for how long they have some good toys that we do not which will be used to remove those of us who hold on to long. The countdown to 2030 has… Read more »

Wild Bill

What do you predict will happen in 2030?

john

I do not predict what will happen the message is clear They failed in 2021 to accomplish their agenda and have pushed the date forward
UN Agenda 2030

Wild Bill

Ahh, I see, now.

USMC0351Grunt

The 2020 to 2022 COVID run was just a test on the ignorance and stupidity and the lack of memory of the US and the rest of the world. We already lived the covid experience back in 2011 through the movie CONTAGION with Laurence Fishburne, Matt Damon, and Gwyneth Paltrow. If you want to check on the ignorance and stupidity of the average person walking this planet just watch that movie. If you don’t come away from it feeling a little pissed off and a little humble because of the bullshit you just went through the last two years then… Read more »

Last edited 21 days ago by USMC0351Grunt
swmft

they are working on a cashless society ,you want to make a cash deposit where is your id ,gold silver platinum and led copper bronze all things with real value the rest is just control trash

Wild Bill

Mine is in the gun safe in the basement. Here are some random thoughts: The trouble with gold and silver is that it is difficult to turn it back into currency. Texas has made gold and silver legal tender, but the kid at the gas station can’t figure out how to make change. Texas is creating a gold and silver deposit credit card. You deposit currency, the state of Texas buys gold and credits it to your account. Your account is worth whatever gold is with on the market that day. Maybe more. Maybe less. One of the big investment… Read more »

musicman44mag

No matter what it is, it always comes down to the few messing things up for the many. Somehow, we need to change that way of acting and thinking.

Wild Bill

Yes, only a few can be at the top. Only a few can be wealthy. I guess the basis of it is human avarice.

musicman44mag

Bullets, water, food, the ability to grow and raise food and shelter. Those will be the things of value in the future. Maybe gas or diesel too. If we could all drop our new American lives and go back 100 years, some of us could and would survive just like they did in the past. The biggest problem is that would be a hard life and many would rather give in to whatever so they can have luxuries. TP stands out in my mind. I would gladly give up my TV for some TP from anyone who has a square… Read more »

gregs

do you think they will release any information about this incident after the “ongoing investigation” is completed, or will it be forgotten?

ALWAYS record interactions with government agents. it is your RIGHT.
NEVER talk with a government agent without an attorney present.
DO NOT let government agents in your house/home or onto your property, it they are TELL THEM TO LEAVE.
even if government agents have a search warrant you DO NOT have to talk to them.
Government agents are NOT your friend.

musicman44mag

It will be another Hunter obiden gun/drug/4473 case and another Alec Baldwin just forgetaboutit.

JSNMGC

Lee, thanks for the follow-up.

Matt Rosendale, if you are reading this – thank you. Far too many Republican legislators say they are “Pro 2nd Amendment” when they campaign. However, when they get in office, they don’t lift a finger in support of the victims of the government.

John, Cynthia, and Liz, are you listening?

Stag

Isn’t it surprising no other Republicans are doing anything about this? It’s almost as if they at best don’t care and at worst support these government thugs. I’m just flabbergasted! Can you tell this is my surprised face?

JSNMGC

We lost such an opportunity in the last presidential election.

The firearm community should have spoken (through the NRA, GOA, and the others):

“Trump, there was voter fraud but not enough to cause you to lose. We caused you to lose by not voting for you or Biden. We did that because you flip-flopped on firearm rights.”

Maybe that would have sent a message to establishment Republicans who treat firearm owners the way Democrats treat Blacks.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?441884-1/president-trump-calls-comprehensive-gun-bill

Too many firearm owners tripped over themselves attempting to explain away Trump’s anti firearm rights views.

Last edited 22 days ago by JSNMGC
Roland T. Gunner

There waa obviously enough voter fraud to steal the election.

JSNMGC

Roland, if the “gun lobby” had taken the position of Trump’s Attorney General (that the election wasn’t stolen), the loss could have been used to send a message to other establishment Republican politicians. Whether the fraud was sufficient to change the election results is a different matter – one that the “best people” Trump hired couldn’t prove. My point was about getting some value from the loss – I was not giving my personal opinion on the actual extent of the fraud.

Russn8r

“Couldn’t prove” due to treason. For God’s Sake, you don’t pretend an election was fairly won to score points with the enemy.

JSNMGC

I wouldn’t pretend an election was won to score points with the enemy. I would emphasize that Trump ran on being “Pro 2nd Amendment” and then he flip flopped. I would point out that he could have received a lot more votes from firearm rights people in battleground states if he hadn’t flip flopped. As it is, “we” got nothing from the loss. “We” could have sent a message to all the other Republican politicians who would consider supporting yet more gun control laws. Not only did “we” get nothing from the loss, a lot of Republican politicians took note… Read more »

Russn8r

“Couldn’t prove it”… etc. Nonsense. They weren’t allowed to present or collect evidence.

You can’t make lemons into lemonade if you throw away the lemons.

Russn8r

Matt Rosendale would be a US Senator today if Wayne LaPierre hadn’t given Jon Tester phony A grades even after he confirmed Sotomayor, Kagan & other anti-gun communists. NRA’s faux grades-endorsements-money-Orange Alert cards for gun grabbers is a HUGE reason phony “pro-gun” RINOs don’t do squat. They know NRA will protect them from the consequences of their treason.

NRA treason 3.png
Russn8r

Tiger Talking OpeTEX pretends to hate LaPierre but downvotes this with his sock pups.

JSNMGC

When they are a minority, they are good at meaningless show-boating gestures, like this “abolish the NFA bill:”

https://bearingarms.com/john-petrolino/2022/07/22/bill-introduced-to-abolish-nfa-n60684

Roland T. Gunner

“I support the Second Amendment; I even own a gun, but…”

The “even” in front of “own a gun” tells you all you need to know.

john

ATF nothing more than another alphabet agency of government oversight used to pursue their democratic global agenda.

Wild Bill

Yes, the Libtard World Order.

willyd

Should be handled like the EPA by the Supreme Court!!!!!!!

Roland T. Gunner

Praying, with my fingers crossed.

Last edited 21 days ago by Roland T. Gunner