Could ATF Be Reined In Big Time? What Happens If It Is?

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United States – -(AmmoLand.com)- Believe it or not, a case at the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit could have major implications for the Second Amendment.

Jarkesy v. Securities and Exchange Commission doesn’t touch on any Second Amendment issues directly, but there are major implications for how the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) in this ruling.

According to the reporting from Cheddar, this could throw a massive wrench into the workings of the administrative state. Many regulatory agencies (of which BATFE is one) have the ability to act as judge and jury in non-criminal cases. One significant example Second Amendment supporters will note is the recent situation with Rare Breed’s triggers, which BATFE decided were machine guns and is now confiscating from people who bought them believing they were legal accessories.

A very final clock could very well be ticking if the Supreme Court hears this case, based on what happened with West Virginia v. EPA. If Jarkesy v. SEC is upheld by the Supreme Court, then BATFE, as it goes after licensed dealers and manufacturers – not to mention all the times they declare something a “machine gun” – is going to face some big-time changes. Their new “ghost gun” regulations? It could very well be gone.

Reining in BATFE’s administrative abuses would be a good thing. The question would be what happens next, the same question that has to be asked if we were to disband that agency. While many loyal Ammoland readers would like to see a lot of BATFE’s workforce out of work, that is not realistically going to happen.

So, Second Amendment supporters need to come up with a plan. An ATF unable to conjure up “machine guns” out of thin air will need to do something. Perhaps it could be re-focused on carrying out Project Exile-type work in our most violent big cities.

I won’t try to kid anyone and say the Biden Administration will even consider that. No, they’ve got parents raising concerns about school boards to worry about, not to mention other non-sequiturs. The FBI certainly doesn’t act when there are real warnings about people who actually went on to carry out mass shootings. Perhaps that function could be shifted to the ATF agents who no longer would be able to somehow call a stock a “machine gun” in a post-Jarkesy v. SEC world.

That world is not here yet, and it may not get here any time soon. While that is frustrating, it also gives Second Amendment supporters the time they need to come up with plans and push our elected representatives to make every effort to pass them. That will help defeat anti-Second Amendment extremists via the ballot box at the federal, state, and local levels.


About Harold Hutchison

Writer Harold Hutchison has more than a dozen years of experience covering military affairs, international events, U.S. politics and Second Amendment issues. Harold was consulting senior editor at Soldier of Fortune magazine and is the author of the novel Strike Group Reagan. He has also written for the Daily Caller, National Review, Patriot Post, Strategypage.com, and other national websites.Harold Hutchison

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Jaque

Your missing the target if its the BATFE. The entire Department of Justice must be flushed as it is the head of the snake.

https://www.usa.gov/federal-agencies/u-s-department-of-justice

Arizona

Disband and defund and abolish the org that exists purely to infringe,

Wild Bill

Yes, a great many of America’s problems would go away if America just went back to the Constitution.

swmft

oh the horror…..People living their lives responsibly of their own accord(not a honda) keep out signs that are respected by living people…..you can guess what happened to the ones that wont read…….

john

The democrats keep picking away at the constitution and there base approves. The republicans cannot unite to fight.

CourageousLion

Yeah, they’ve been picking away a little bit…https://courageouslion380.substack.com/p/communism-american-style

Russn8r

“Republicans” have also picked away at the Constitution. See Trump’s bump stock ban. See Bush-Cheney, “Patriot Acts”, “Homeland Security”, “TSA” ad nauseam. See latest gun control bill approved by 15 “R” senators & effectively Mitch McCornhole (“R”, KY) who winked & did nothing while John Cornyn (“R”, TEXAS) worked the “deal” to provide cover for Dems. Never would’ve even had a floor vote without “bipartisan” cover.

swmft

you left out ronie and the 1986 new machine guns ban

Russn8r

Thx. I hold Reagan less responsible than NRA, with ILA then under Knox. I’m sure Knox didn’t want the Hughes Amendment but NRA-ILA never withdrew support for “FOPA” after it was in. As I recall Knox also hired LaPierre despite knowing he was a oddly metrosexual “access” lobbyist who’d never owned a gun.

Sad fact, it’s unrealistic to expect pols to be more pro-2A than NRA. They should be, and some courageous principled ones are, but it’s unrealistic.

NRA till brags about “FOPA” even though ATF became more abusive after “FOPA” (e.g. Ruby Ridge, Waco), partly facilitated by Amd 777.

Last edited 1 month ago by Russn8r
Ed

Reined in? How about disbanded. Bruen makes the ATF a nonessential entity. The NFA is unconstitutional, the GCA is unconstitutional. The problem is time. These liberal courts can stall until a liberal senate can possibly stack the court with tyrants. The 9th circuit sent this case back to the beginning. That’s wrong. There is nothing right about it.

Finnky

Like Harold I see a need for an ATF in post Bruen world. Of course agency needs to be entirely repurposed and likely a 100% staff turnover to do it. As federal agency overseeing firearms laws across the country, having a legal team and a larger armed force – they could be well equipped to dismantle state and local gun laws across the country. After all – one of the main purposes of the federal government is to uphold the constitution and protect our individual civil liberties and right. Completely dismantling the agency is far more likely and less fraught… Read more »

Wild Bill

WHAT?! The very reason to rid ourselves of BATFE is that they are a “… federal agency overseeing firearms laws across the country, having a legal team and a larger armed force…”
The feds will not send agents to fight state LEOs.

swmft

how about we send them in mass to mexico to recover the guns they sold there

Wild Bill

They’d probably bring back Mexican souvenirs instead of guns.

Roland T. Gunner

I wonder if they would bring me one of those flashy chrome and brightly colored acrylic swingguard stilettos with the bullfight scene on the handle scales?

Wild Bill

They’d probably have to convert to Islam to get out of the country alive.

Wild Bill

Ahhh, yes. I see the wisdom of that!!

UncleT

What happens if the ATF is abolished? Big part of Liberty will be restored. Now, onto the rest of these unconstitutional agencies…

If I were to select a jack-booted group of fascists who are perhaps as large a danger to American society as I could pick today, I would pick BATF [the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms]. – U.S. Representative John Dingell, 1980

Wild Bill

Yes, and BATFE has gotten worse since JD said those words, more than forty years ago.

Roland T. Gunner

I refuse to accept as a given that we cannot dissolve BATFE, along with sending the NFA et al to the shredder.

Wild Bill

I agree. All it would take is a memo!

swmft

i think a ruling from scotus would be faster an put brakes on fbi at same time this stealing under color of law bs that has been happening is out of control, no proof no crime have a nice day sir be carefull with that amount of cash…not good luck getting your money back its ours now

swmft

Most countries around the world have had purges…bad or incompatible people ousted one way or another it looks like we may have one of our own.Not on the scale of stalin ..but.not ever seen here before

swmft

simple solution is jail all the ones that have been violating rights…remember ignorance of law(constitution )is no excuse ,with all of them doing 20 to life for various actions no need to find them jobs

Russn8r

That’d be great too, but federales are virtually never held accountable, even murderers like Horiuchi. Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms should be completely scrapped for that reason, and because it’ll always be a dedicated gun control institution. The framers would’ve been horrified by the AT part of ATF too. The very name is unconstitutional.

swmft

yes they would would have all wound up in bay or harbor or rivers just like the tea

swmft

I dont think they will even follow court orders , they will make their laws and it will take force to bring them under control…I wounder if military would step up to back scotus or if WE will have to

HM83

“But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty once lost is lost forever.” – John Adams

Liberty will always be freedom from government. Our ancestors lost that generations ago. If you want liberty and stop being infringed upon, you are going to need a new government.

Wild Bill

What is the context surrounding Adams’s statement?

Ope

Abolish ATF/Rescind NFA !

Bill

One can only hope!

American Cynic

What really needs to happen is not going to happen, you are correct. I’m advocating for dismantling the entire federal government, or perhaps those aspects we can safely call the Deep State. If you look at the crux of this federal government, at the root of its power is not We The People, it’s money. It is completely obvious, at this point, that the voters can be manipulated, and even the demographics monkeyed with to mold constituencies into whatever you want. Thus far, only the Democrats have been adept at stooping that low. Corporations and Billionaires have enough money so… Read more »

pureamericana

In a few words; American citizens are sick & tired of the bullying, threats and intimidation various Federal Depts are using to build cases. Their end game is bigger budgets,salaries and pensions at the cost of ruining citizens lives. This is not the country many were born in. It has become an African Fiefdom or Banana Republica of Commies, solidifying a police statel.

Stag

“So, Second Amendment supporters need to come up with a plan. An ATF unable to conjure up “machine guns” out of thin air will need to do something. Perhaps it could be re-focused on carrying out Project Exile-type work in our most violent big cities.”

Yet again here’s Harold advocating for the enforcement of unconstitutional arms laws under 18 USC 922.

Wild Bill

Harold, You need a minimum of two sentences to make a paragraph; and what is that second thing that appears to be a paragraph? When you write “… for how the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) in this ruling.” What are you trying to say?

You finally bring good news and this how you present it?

Last edited 1 month ago by Wild Bill
moe mensale

A paragraph can consist of either a single sentence or multiple sentences. You must have missed that part of your writing composition class. As for that second paragraph, if you leave out the word “how” it makes perfect sense. Or perhaps the writer inadvertently left out a few words. I don’t honestly know. Hey, here’s a thought. Maybe you could write an article for AmmoLand and we can all shit over it as you’re so fond of doing to other writers. Nah, that would take too much effort on your part. It’s easier for you to just piss on someone… Read more »

Russn8r

Wild Bill lives for too-smart-by-half nitpicking, but try pointing out an error in his language & see what happens. OH THE HUMANITY! You’ll never be forgiven. He & his gang of LEO sock pup toadies will bite your ankles till the end of time.

swmft

a paragraph can consist of a one word sentence;

swmft

GOD

Wild Bill

Needs a verb.

hippybiker

Jesus wept!

Wild Bill

A perfect simple declarative sentence!

Roland T. Gunner

I believe that’s a daily occurance.

swmft

the word can be a noun and verb as well as adverb so all encompassing…not many words fall in the category… the second part would be an understood based on previous paragraph under stood ” help us/me” so american english is complicated

Wild Bill

A single word can not be used as a noun and a verb at the same time.

PMinFl

God exists.

Wild Bill

Yes he does. Subject, verb … perfect simple declarative sentence.

Wild Bill

I have had English comp classes from high school, to college, to Command and General Staff College. “A paragraph is a series of sentences developing one topic.” Please see Warriner’s English Grammar and Composition, p 309. “A paragraph is a series of related sentences developing one topic.” Please see English Composition, by James B. Fisher, p 65 “A paragraph should start with a topic sentence that indicates the paragraph’s contents … or build up to a climax… In short, an effective paragraph is not merely a collection of sentences … it is the product of careful design.” Please see Disciplined… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Wild Bill
willyd

This from Harld did gt the message out as to what has to happen, most of the time I don’t follow Harold, but this time at least he does have a valid point! Most of these Alphabit agencies just followmmthe way of the winds in making rule to suit them at the time!!!!!! Most of them need to be disolved and done away with!!!!!!

Roland T. Gunner

You are absolutely correct in your conclusion, but that was not the conclusion Harold was advocating.

Wild Bill

I agree.

Ope

Bill, watch out. the bait is out and it’s looking for someone to annoy. He sure does miss the other one don’t he?

Russn8r

That’s funny coming from a master baiter like you, OFFICER OpeTEX

Wild Bill

I may have stepped in it.

Russn8r

OMG. They let prissy nitpicking grammarians into Command & General Staff College. No wonder the military is going LGBTQxyz. Surely Gen Patton would be impressed with your grammar nagging.

Wild Bill

What is your military experience? C&GSC includes a written communications course.

Patton was an educated man, and required it from his staff. Patton demanded good grammar, punctuation, spelling, sentence construction, and paragraph development in written comunications.

Last edited 1 month ago by Wild Bill
Russn8r

Patton was educated, but he didn’t nag people like a prissy little B about perfectly understandable sentences, or pack a grammar book in his ass. Also didn’t use unnecessary commas at the end of sentences, then.

Ope

Bill, do notice how it can never answer a question?

Wild Bill

Most of his arguments are implications. Then when one follows up, he has not the knowledge to answer or the answer would be embarrassing to him.
He certainly does not know anything about Patton.

Russn8r

Sure thing Generalíssima. You’re a legend in your own mind.

Ope

Bill, I haven’t ever seen anything it’s knowledgeable about, including George Patton.

Wild Bill

Just one Spanish verb.

Russn8r

And you had a hissy fit.

Russn8r

How about these questions, OFFICER Ope, aka TEX, Bruce, Will, FordWill etc?

How many sock puppet accounts do you have?

How many different handles have you used here?

CRICKETS CHIRPING…

Ope

Bill, like I said, it just wants someone to argue , with.

Wild Bill

Message received.

Ope

Yo

KenW

There are so many irrelevant, and Bravo Sierra comments here especially on Harold’s articles, I refuse to follow any threads on Ammoland.

Buckshot

Then leave. No one here will care.

CourageousLion

Doesn’t refuse mean that I wouldn’t have had to read your statement because you “refuse to follow any threads?

Ope

KenW, if it’s that troubling to you than take Buckshots advice and just go on down the road.

Ope

moe, paragraph ,a group of sentences or a single sentence that form a unit. However, one sentence is not a paragraph in a academic writing.

john

Till the scales of justice are balanced again expect more of the same form the elite and the democrats.

The plan Harold is to vote the democrats out of the game in November

Knute Knute

But the left’s plan is likely to create enough havoc to declare Martial Law and suspend the elections so they cannot lose. It will be interesting to see which one of those occurs, a return to the spineless RINOs that do whatever the left orders, another fake election, or tanks in the streets.
Whatever way it goes, it will be an exciting ride! Yee Haaa…

swmft

they try the later the streets will be red

swmft

and the ones not voted out need convenient accidents

Wild Bill

A certain person is really getting around with his down vote, but I fixed it.

Last edited 1 month ago by Wild Bill
Ope

Bill, For hours today he wasn’t posting, but was just trolling and downvoting you, me and Boom instantly. Now’s he doing it again. This ole boy is the same one always whining about downvotes too. I really do wish I had the ability to down vote the boy more than once.

Russn8r

LOL. So that’s you denying that TEX, Bruce, Will, FordWILL etc are your socks, when EVERYONE knows they are.

Last edited 1 month ago by Russn8r
Wild Bill

He is having a hissy fit.

Ope

Yep,he sure is. Have you ever noticed when he talks about these imaginary sock puppets with that ridiculous list of names, he will say EVERYONE KNOWS or WE ALL KNOW, blah, blah, blah. Does the boy think he is everybody ? I’ve never heard anyone on Ammoland other than him say anything about this. The reason for that is because it’s BS and he knows it.

Wild Bill

Yes, a middle school debate technique.

If he admitted that someone else had achieved something, then he thinks that it would make him second rate, somehow, because he has achieved nothing. Pitiful.

Russn8r

Again lying, pretending you don’t know your main squeeze sycophant OFFICER Ope = TEX-Bruce-Will-FordWill etc

What’s funny is painting yourself a military hero, while grammar-nagging like a prissy little B, but having a hissy if someone corrects YOU.

What were you, CO of the Grammar Brigade?

Wild Bill

I have said nothing of my military career. It was Bn not Bde.

Russn8r

Hahahahahaha! Sure thing, Generalíssima.

Russn8r

Harold Hutchinson, pragmaster of compromise defeatism, wants to save ATF. You don’t know it’s ‘realistically not going to happen’. You just don’t want to try to get rid of it. You want ‘a plan’ to head off total victory, preserve a big nest of traitors to expand again.

Wild Bill

But you like his paragraphing?