Opinion
“We know that they are lying, and they know that they are lying. They even know that we know they are lying. We also know that they know we know they are lying too. They of course, know that we certainly know they know we know they are lying too as well, but they still lie!
In the USSR, the lie has become not just moral category, but the pillar industry of this country.” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.
And not just in the once mighty USSR!
Bullpups may not be the trend anymore.
Since 1985, the UK’s military forces have been armed with the checkered-reputation SA80 Bullpup Rifle (L85). This rifle immediately ran into trouble upon the first issue, with poor reliability and parts breakage rendering it all but unusable.
The bureaucratic response to innumerable poor reviews was automatic and predictable:
First, complete denial. Then, less convincing denial. Then cover-up. Finally, accusations, career-protection, and finger-pointing. It happens every time some new project goes south.
When they could no longer persuasively deny that the SA80 was a piece of trash, the UK hired H&K to “fix the problems.” H&K then essentially gutted the entire rifle and replaced nearly every part.
Since H&K’s “fix,” the SA80 has actually run pretty well, but the damage has been done.
SA80’s discredited reputation has never been revived, and the SA80 has thus never been exported. No one wants it. They still don’t!
Just announced is the replacement:
Knight’s Armament KS1 (5.56×45), which looks an awful lot like an H&K 416!
The KS1 features a built-in suppressor and sophisticated optic, and unlike the SA80, the KS1 is actually designed and built by a “gun company” (of which do not exist in the UK anymore)
Specifications required the new UK rifle to feature a “conventional layout,” i.e., a magazine well before the pistol grip. No bullpup was considered!
It seems the bullpup layout (magazine behind the pistol grip) was never popular with UK troopers.
So, the SA80 is now history and essentially scrap metal since the UK can’t give them away! Interestingly, the new rifle caliber recently adopted by the Pentagon (6.8×51, or “277 Fury”) apparently has no following in the UK nor within the rest of NATO.
Existing bullpups, specifically Israel’s Tavor and Croatia’s VHS2 (Hellion), continue to be issued and popular with local troops. I’ve had both in Classes, and both run well and are very acceptable.
However, the “conventional layout” has its adherents, too, as we see.
The final chapter is yet to be written!
/John
Live Inventory Price Checker
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About John Farnam & Defense Training International, Inc
As a defensive weapons and tactics instructor, John Farnam will urge you, based on your beliefs, to make up your mind about what you would do when faced with an imminent lethal threat. You should, of course, also decide what preparations you should make in advance if any. Defense Training International wants to ensure that its students fully understand the physical, legal, psychological, and societal consequences of their actions or in-actions.
It is our duty to make you aware of certain unpleasant physical realities intrinsic to Planet Earth. Mr. Farnam is happy to be your counselor and advisor. Visit: www.defense-training.com
I concur. Bullpups are mostly expensive garbage. This from one that thought, back when they hit the big time with the introduction of the AUG, that they were the coolest thing in the world. How could I not be smitten? Long barrels, with all of the ballistic advantages that that brings, and yet short and handy as well. How could I not fall in love with the idea? Now, however, after years of experience with them, I realize that the advantages are outweighed by the disadvantages. IMOO, OFC. This is a subjective subject, so varying opinions are all that anyone… Read more »
A little challenge for you, Mr. Downvoter:
I challenge you stop hiding and actually respond with what you found in my post above that you disagree with, or are angry at.
I dare you. I double dare you. Hiding is for losers. Come on, speak up, man!
Stop hiding. I dare you! 🙂
You too Ope. I’ve been well. There just hasn’t been a lot for me to comment on lately. That’s probably why I went for this long dissertation on bullpups, which I normally wouldn’t bother with. For those that like bullpups, they’re fine. If I could’ve gotten used to their odd weight distribution, I’d likely still have one. As I said, I used to be in love with them… once. Much like a female that one falls head over heels for, now that the romance is over, I can’t ignore her faults anymore. 🙂 The only reason I put the second… Read more »
OH, look! Now the troll is after you, Ope! I called him weak, and so now he’s taking it out on you. What a loser! One thing I did forget to mention. Mr. Farnam is correct, the last chapter on bullpups hasn’t been written yet. The first one that can figure out how to address the issues I listed… well, I might be head over heels in love all over again! Like my psychotic ex-wife. If she’d address a couple of her major issues she’d still be something special. Even one issue might do the trick. I wouldn’t marry her… Read more »
BTW, thank you, Mr. Downvoter. Look at all the upvotes you’ve generated for us! Thank you very much, even though I doubt that was your goal. This is known as; “the law of unintended consequences”. 🙂
I, personally, will not own any gun I cannot fire either right or left handed. That eliminates most bullpups as they eject to the side. Kel-tecs eject downward which is fine. I always encourage shooters to practice firing from their weak side, you never know when that might be a life saving skill.
or forward
I had been unfamiliar with the Keltec RDB17. Here is something that might address two of my bullpup issues. That rear ejection, however Keltec accomplishes it, also moves the action forward enough that the weight distribution should be improved, at least slightly, and also is actually ambi, and not just deceptive marketing like most bullpups. I’d have to examine the internals to be certain, but it seems likely that the rearward ejection will still suffer from the excess complexity and denial of access to the chamber, the same as the forward ejectors like the RFB and desert tecs do. It… Read more »
I tend to agree. Although I am quite comfortable with the X95 and AUG, I have also fired the RDB.
Unfortunately, as for battlefield quality bullpups, only the FN F2000 and Singaporean BR18 seem to have addressed the issue.
I doubt the BR18 will ever be imported here, and the FS2000 suffered from outdated ergonomics before being discontinued.
The RDB, while not really considered a combat rifle, has a lot of potential of somebody were to take the design and ruggedize the chassis. It also needs a toilet bowl like the FS2000 for chamber checks.
The MDRX is… The MDRX.