On Cops Shooting Kids

by Ian Smithson

Toy Cap Gun
Toy Cap Gun
Man Talk Blog
Man Talk Blog

Colorado –-(Ammoland.com)-

Recently the case of 12 year old Tamir Rice in Cleveland. This is the case where this child pulled a gun on two Cleveland cops in a park and was then shot to death by them and recently found it was justified.

Let’s look at a few of the facts: The Rice child was fairly large for his age (looks more adult than he was in a few seconds of visual contact). He presented to the responding cops a pellet gun that looks identical to a Colt 1911 .45ACP even by trained eyes – and under the life and death pressure the cops slightly hopped up on adrenaline on their way to a potential gun fight they reacted as their training dictated.

The responding cops were NOT told it appeared to be a toy gun in the 911 alert. Upon arrival in winter overcast lower light (black and white conditions) they pulled their car in close (an error in my opinion) to the kid and he produced a dead on real looking semi-automatic pistol – they shot him and he died.

Recently while visiting my daughter and her son (a 12 year old who stands 5’6″) he produced a plastic Beretta 92 pistol so realistically detailed that for a few seconds from a foot away (before I held it) I even thought it was real. He used it to play cops and robbers around their apartment complex.

Cleveland boy waving toy gun at police, just before being shot.
Cleveland boy waving toy gun at police, just before being shot.

I know guns, I shoot a lot! I have fired a million or two rounds of ammunition in my lifetime, have trained SWAT, shot competitively and was in the Army. I noticed that the orange plastic toy gun indicator on the barrel had been painted black to make it look more real (he is a kid and back in my day I would have done that too). I nearly crapped and took the gun away. I explained that he will get shot by a citizen or police officer if they see him with that gun. His mom put it away forever, I hope. Then I told them of other shooting cases of kids with guns. The Rice incident had not happened yet but at that time (2013) a kid with a full size real looking toy AK-47 got killed by police in California when he pointed it at the cops.

These plastic toy and pellet guns are absolutely dead on identical in appearance to real guns and that includes rifles and semis like ARs and AKs. When cops are told someone with a gun is on the loose in an area (especially nowadays) they must prepare for a life and death encounter-what the hell would be your thought?

When the cops pull up and the guy with the gun does not instantly respond to their demands and then turns towards them or raises the gun they must and will shoot – if they wait around and the gun is real it will be too late for them and bystanders in the area. In incidents like this all law enforcement including the Secret Service are trained to look at hands FIRST and if those hands have a gun…they will deal with it quickly–they have to!

Kids do not think and react like adults, I was once one, I know, how about you? A kid may well raise a gun to show the cops it is not real (time to shoot).

Cops do not shoot to kill or wound. First they are not the best of shots–most are rather poor marksmen. The silly idea of shoot to wound is great in the old cowboy movies but not in real life-the target (leg, hand, arm) is small it is moving and again, they are not highly-practiced competition shooters especially if the target may or is going to actually shoot back at them.

Cops are trained to shoot at the center of the target (center of mass) and any wounding is a result of a bad (or lucky) shot. They are also trained to keep shooting until there is no longer a threat (something I have also trained both cops and civilians to do).

Last, there is the contagion of fire phenomenon. This is where two or more cops are facing off with a potential shooter, knife holder, etc. and someone farts (for example) and that noise or any weird movement startles a cop to flinch-fire (my term). Then his shot going off startles the others (who are all wired up) to fire and they fire and keep it up. This is a lack of professional fire discipline when we see a person shot at 40 times by a dozen cops and hit just a few times. There is a tactical solution for this foolishness though…

Read the conclusion of this article online at the Man Talk Blog.

About the Man Talk Blog;
This is a guy blog and will cater to stuff we guys like such as food and drink (cigars too). We will talk about outdoor, hunting, fishing and survival and other interesting stuff (we hope). And of course guy toys which means cars, boats, guns, grills or whatever. Visit: www.mantalkblog.com

  • 12
    Leave a Reply

    Please Login to comment
    12 Comment threads
    0 Thread replies
    0 Followers
     
    Most reacted comment
    Hottest comment thread
    12 Comment authors
    SteveomunchieVanns40HerbBrian Recent comment authors
      Subscribe  
    Notify of
    Steveo
    Guest
    Steveo

    As a 20 year veteran Municipal Police Officer from Ohio I agree with most of this article except the mention of poor marksmanship of Police. Our Officers are all provided open range opportunities every month and are rewarded with merit pins for better then average shooting. Cops love stuff on their uniforms. I also agree that the placement of the cruiser in the Cleveland incident was terrible and to add fuel to the fire the FTO was driving. That should have been his last day as a FTO.

    munchie
    Guest
    munchie

    I played with toy guns all the time in my white suburban neighborhood, just north of Seattle, when I was a kid back in the late 60’s early 70’s…. Police were never around, because there was no crime. Like I said before, white suburbs, 40 years ago, no crime. Black inner cities ? Hispanic hoods? High crime, rape, murder, robbery.

    Vanns40
    Guest
    Vanns40

    Clark Kent: As a retired LEO I can, regrettably, tell you that there is a lot of evidence that police officers under fire do only achieve approx. a 20-30% hit score with a tremendous number of shots going errant, sometimes hitting innocent bystanders. One classic case was the shooting in NY City just a few years ago where seven or eight civilians were accidentally wounded when three or four officers opened fire on a single individual. I don’t blame the officers I blame the departments for cutting corners in training.

    Herb
    Guest
    Herb

    Don’tcha think ADULT SUPERVISION would have helped in this situation? I know that is asking a lot but where were the adults before the cops arrived? Maybe the missing adults should bear much of the blame for this kid’s death, not the cops.

    Brian
    Guest
    Brian

    Police are not poor marksman. If the department is training them right. They normally have to qualify every year. I know departments have different standards but if they are poor shooters then they can’t carry until they qualify. If you can’t qualify you don’t have a job anymore. I had a Sargent that failed to qualify twice during inservice training. His was not allowed to drive his patrol car or carry his gun. He was given a third chance to qualify. If he had failed he would have lost his job.

    Janek
    Guest
    Janek

    This applies to all parties involved: If you engage in foolish behavior you deserve whatever happens. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

    Chuck
    Guest
    Chuck

    Back in the day, toy guns looked like toys. They were cap pistols and no mistake could be made. We need to go back to this. No kid needs to be playing with a life like toy that is going to be mistaken for the real thing and get him killed. Common sense needs to be used by cops too. Some will use guns they know are toys to kill innocent people. These people do not need to be cops and are only on power trips.

    Infidel7.62
    Guest
    Infidel7.62

    You have no idea what it is like until you have been there. I rolled on a call of three black males hanging out of a car with guns in one our cities biggest housing projects one afternoon. I was only two blocks out when I got the call so no siren. I stopped about 30 yards behind their car and got into the doorjamb with the shotgun (they never saw me). When I hit the PA and ordered police drop your weapons all three “pistols” dropped to the ground immediately. When backup arrived we determined the three pistols were… Read more »

    Clark Kent
    Guest
    Clark Kent

    Please provide proof that ‘most (police) are rather poor marksmen’ along with proof of their alleged ‘lack of professional fire discipline’. By the way, was the author ever a police officer?

    TEX
    Guest
    TEX

    I don’t know why but blacks just don’t teach their kids to respect the law or the police. The reason Rice got shot is because he pointed a very real looking toy firearm at the police and they shot and killed him. The police didn’t’ kill him because he was black,but because he threatened the police with a gun. Brotha Sharpton race baiter said they wouldn’t had shot him is he was white,..BULLSH*T ! White kids don’t do stupid crap like Rice did. Blacks as a whole need to learn to function I a civilized society.

    jim
    Guest
    jim

    Well, based on your comment, regardless of incident age or whatever, when a gun is in hand cops should just begin to shoot–is that a plan? Actually, painting the orange on a gun shows a deliberate effort on the criminal’s part to actually use the fake looking gun to actually kill officers–if wounded and captured he could get a very enhanced term by a good prosecutor. regardless of all this crap Obama is preaching and that of liberal socialists and worse–the mission of the Second Amendment is to have an armed citizenry to protect the country from an internal “ruler”… Read more »

    TRUTH BE TOLD
    Guest
    TRUTH BE TOLD

    How long will it be till a real gun has the tip painted orange and someone get’s killed cause blm crowd think’s this is wrong on cop’s part……. the gun looked real and he was a pointing it, maybe he saw to much blm type tv and dept of UN justice mixed in with clock boy that maybe this might work out for him……. or he just wanted to look like the thugs around him…. he pointed it at people so there you go, just as guilty as travon martin was…. when 93% of blacks are killed by other blacks… Read more »