Police Warn English Subjects Against Using Guns to Resist Terrorism

By David Codrea
In response to terrorism, police are warning English subjects to run, hide, and tell.

A different time: A sergeant instructor explains the working of a rifle to two members of the Home Guard Local Defence Volunteers (Imperial War Museum).
David Codrea in his natural habitat.

USA – -(Ammoland.com)- “A police commissioner has caused alarm among rank and file officers by suggesting that members of the public who own guns could help defend rural areas against terror attacks,” The Guardian reported Monday. “Alison Hernandez, the Devon and Cornwall police and crime commissioner, said she was interested in having a conversation with the chief constable about whether ordinary people with gun licenses could assist in a terrorist crisis.” (audio below)

“Under no circumstances would we want members of the public to arm themselves with firearms, not least because officers responding would not know who the offenders were, and quite obviously they would not have the time to ask,” Devon & Cornwall Deputy Chief Constable Paul Netherton quickly responded, discouraging such a conversation from happening, let alone resulting in any change to the U.K.’s draconian gun bans and restrictions. “Our message to the public is a simple one: to run, to hide and to tell.”

“Fight”? With what?

That seems to be the message of “Only Ones” everywhere, including here in the U.S., where our Department of Homeland Security adds an anemic “fight” to the instructions, without adding how someone disarmed by “rules” is supposed to do that and what the odds are likely to be for success.

Further agreeing with Constable Netherton, and further asserting that U.S. gun laws enable and abet terrorists, are American gun-grabbers, with their position laid out in The New York Times. That allowing insufficiently vetted foreign nationals into the country in the first place may be a factor is left unexplored. Also ignored are how many killers took advantage of “gun-free zone” restrictions and the inconvenient truth that the five million members of the National Rifle Association – arguably the most heavily-armed civilian population on the planet,” have a lower homicide rate than Britain.

It’s clearly not the guns.

“(European-style terror attacks are) going to be the new normal in our world,” former NYPD Commissioner and LAPD Chief Bill Bratton predicted in a “No, duh!” moment. “That type of attack is quite likely to occur in the United States at some point in time.”

And true to carrying on in the finest European traditions, Bratton has been a career denier of the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

“What we are beginning to remember is that for thousands of years everyone on this island was armed at all times with daggers—with swords if you could afford them, with throwing axes and longbows for truly special occasions,” a guest post on The Burning Platform reflects ruefully. “Personal defence was not just a choice, it meant accepting full responsibility for individual safety beyond city or castle walls. Defending ourselves with grace and strength and skill was something we once took great pride in.”

American gun owners should look at what’s happening “across the pond” and view it as a canary in a coal mine of sorts, and a predictor of the shape of things to come. And all would do well to remember that when it comes to “gun violence” and terrorism, the UK ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

About David Codrea:

David Codrea is the winner of multiple journalist awards for investigating / defending the RKBA and a long-time gun owner rights advocate who defiantly challenges the folly of citizen disarmament.

In addition to being a field editor/columnist at GUNS Magazine and associate editor for Oath Keepers, he blogs at “The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance,” and posts on Twitter: @dcodrea and Facebook.

  • 132 thoughts on “Police Warn English Subjects Against Using Guns to Resist Terrorism

    1. Re the leadin headline, Police Warn English Subjects Against Using Guns To Resist Terrorism,given that few of the referenced SUBJECTS have access to arms, the point might be moot. That said one wonders as to what action, if any, might be acceptable to the police who it seems issued this warning. What, one wonders might Joe Blow, English Subject, do? Possibly “assume the position” and offer up a quick prayer. Seems to me that the game they, the police say the “subject” should play, is a loosing game, but then while I lived in London for a time, many years ago, I’m an American Citizen, not an English Subject, which might make a large difference in outlook.

      1. The Brits have apparently lost the will to live, as a culture. I lived in the UK for eight years in the late ’80’s and at that time they seemed to have some personal pride in being British. Now, it looks like they’ve given up and are just waiting to be out-populated and out-reproduced by freely-accepted Muslim invaders (which is the Muslim Brotherhood’s publicly published plan, actually). Too bad. Used to be a beautiful place to live.

    2. “Under no circumstances would we want members of the public to arm themselves with firearms, not least because officers responding would not know who the offenders were, and quite obviously they would not have the time to ask,” – Netherton responded.
      What an idiot. Wouldn’t want anyone to defend themselves against terrorists. And when the police arrive, the good guys are the ones that put their weapons down and stop shooting, not the ones that turn and shoot at the cops. And what makes this guy think, even if they did have time to ask who the good guys were, that the terrorists would be honest?

    3. Check the laws, in the mid 1800’s congress realized , LEO’s could NOT secure and defend every citizen in their Area of responsibility.

      Law Enforcement is just that., LEO’s enforce Laws after the fact , response! LAW Enforcement !! Security is an individual’s soul responsibility ! Due to lack of FUNDING and Man power, American’s can not expect their local / Federal LEO’s to defend us.

      This country would be speaking with a British Accent if we didn’t protect ourselves back in the day!

      God Bless American and the second amendment!

      EFMc

      1. @Capt E McCort, Welcome to the site. I look forward to reading more from you later. Oh…, and thank you for your sacrifices for our American freedoms.

    4. What a choice. Run, hide, tell. What a bunch of cowards. Stand up, be counted, do the right thing. I am so sorry for Britain.

    5. “…the five million members of the National Rifle Association…have a lower homicide rate than Britain.” That’s a fascinating stat, and one that I’d like to repeat loudly and often. But I’d like some attribution. Where, may I ask, did those figures come from?

      1. Simple math. Take the American murder rate, minus the inner city gang and drug murders, and that gives an average murder rate per million (other than gang and drug violence), multiply by 5 (as in 5 million NRA members), and that’s your answer.

    6. I moved to NJ six years ago and boy, what a major mistake. Shame on me for first not realizing this state has some of the highest taxes in the nation, more importantly, does not even have an inkling of care or concern, for the safety and protection of their law abiding residents. It is extremely easy for criminals to get and possess guns, but not for law abiding NJ residents. No right to carry in this State, even with Chris Christi our current republican governor or our new Republican governor candidate Kim Guadagno. Not only do you have to get a permit first, prior to purchasing a gun, but you also need a permit to purchase ammunition. The more I read about NJ residents protecting themselves in their own home is truly very concerning and frightening.

      To be a law abiding citizen in this state means that if you have to protect yourself in your own home, expect to be first prosecuted by our democratic and delusional district attorney’s, then fight your case to the State’s top court. I just don’t understand; since the second amendment is a constitutional right that applies evenly to every legal and law abiding USA citizen, why it is not applied evenly across the “United States” of America? My hope is that President Trump passes a common sense national right to carry law, where every law abiding citizen has the unalienable right to self protection, regardless of the State you reside in and, supersedes any State’s current law that prevents their law abiding citizens the right of self protection.

    7. I WAS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AS A PROSECUTOR/ ELECTED DISTRICT ATTORNEY FOR 30 YRS AND YOU CAN’T DEPEND ON LEO TO PROTECT YOU OR YOURS, YOU MUST DO IT YOURSELF ARE TOLERATE BEING VICTIMS. LEOS ARE JUST AS PRONE TO MAKE MISTAKES AS CITIZENS, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE GIVEN SOME TRAINING IN HANDLING AND USE OF WEAPONS THEY MAY NOT BE AS GOOD AS CITIZENS IN HANDLING THE MANY OCCASIONS WHEN CONFUSION, ADRENALINE, AND PAST EXPERIENCE CAN CONTROL. LEOS WILL ADMIT THAT WHEN THE CHASE ENDS GENERALLY SOMEBODY’S GOING TO PAY! WHEN I HAD TO REVIEW SAID CASES I REALIZED THE STRESS THAT BUILDS UP DURING A CHASE (EITHER ON FOOT OR VEHICLE THIS IS WHERE THEY TRULY PUT THEIR LIFE ON THE LINE) BECAUSE I WAS INVOLVED IN SEVERAL. BUT WHEN LIFE AND DEATH ARE INVOLVED, ALL WE CAN EXPECT IS FOR THE INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED TO ACT IN AN APPROPRIATE WAY CONSIDERING THE FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES THAT EXISTED AND IF INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE HURT WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT IN THIS CROWDED WORLD. WE HAVE CHOSEN TO LIVE IN HERDS SO WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH BEING TRAMPLED NOW AND THEN! GOD BLESS US IF WE LOSE OUR ABILITY TO DEFEND OURSELVES, WHEN THE COPS ARRIVE WITH THE CHALK, IT’S TOO LATE FOR US!!!!!!!

      1. Why shout, your comment is in caps. That said, I agree with your comments, especially given the following. Various courts have ruled multiple times as follows, not their exact words, but it boils down to the following. The police owe the individual no particular service, protection especially, as they are there ” to protect society” whatever the hell that might mean, not the individual.

      2. By the way, the courts I refer to are various courts in this country. Who knows how British courts might rule, though I believe I could make a damned good guess. They would not rule in favor of the individual defending himself or herself.

        1. Alan, the Brit courts are much less in favor of the individual right to defense. We even have an 0bama SCOTUS judge, Sotomayor, that believes we do not have the right to self-defense and stated such many times, including in her dissent to the Heller decision.

          In the UK, if you defend yourself against an assailant and harm the assailant in any way, you will be charged with assault. If you used anything as a weapon, you will be charged with assault with a weapon (just as in the USA, it is a felony). If you are carrying anything “without good cause”, you will be charged with carrying a weapon, also a felony.

          I recall a court case from several years ago where a chef was arrested because he had Chef’s knives in his vehicle. He unfortunately did not remove them from his car when he arrived home from his job at the restaurant, and “stupidly” proceeded to go shopping, whence he was stopped and found to have knives in his vehicle. Knives are illegal in public “without good cause”. Additionally, “without good cause” is left to interpretation by the Bobbies, and just like here, LEOs opinion means much more in the court of law than mere subjects, or citizens in the USA.

          1. Might the above explain why people in Britain are described as “subjects” rather than “citizens”? Additionally, might we be moving in the direction of creating such a system or idea here?

      3. Why do you think so many citizens are being shot by cops? Because the NRA has promoted universal gun ownership & concealed carry. Cops must assume that everybody they meet has a gun, & so they shoot first.

        1. WL you must live in one of the less than free states or in one of the imperial cities.
          Although there are certainly some bad ones, most cops out here in the rural west tend to show a little respect to gun owners, particularly CCW holders.
          First of all, almost everyone who lives rural has guns. This state is a no-permit open carry and no-permit for in/on a vehicle. Lots and lots of hunters too.
          Cops know we have been background checked both to buy the gun, and to get the permit.
          Also, like it or not, appearance and attitude have a lot to do with how you are treated. Look like a thug, act like a thug, you will probably get treated like a thug.
          “An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
          — Robert A. Heinlein

        2. If you are shot by a cop, then 99% of the time it means you didn’t follow that cop’s orders (the NRA didn’t do that). Watch the show LivePD a couple times and you’ll see cops have a lot of restraint and that most of the people cops come into contact with are tools and still aren’t shot at.

        3. William, if you use a water hose you should be able to get that sand out of there. You will feel better and perhaps be able to think more clearly.

        4. What kind of a twisted mind blames the NRA for cops shooting citizens? Most of the shootings to which you refer are hoodlums who appear armed and as Mike says, act like hoodlums. They don’t do anything that an honest citizen would do like stop, keep hands in sight, follow orders, etc. Even average kids should know better than to point their toy guns or even fingers at a cop who’s obviously armed and telling them to stop and keep their hands in plain sight. Those kids with toy guns or BB guns they pointed at cops have been taught (either intentionally or unintentionally) to disrespect law enforcement, so it’s no wonder they are stupid enough to get shot. Kids learn more by observation than by just what they’re told, so if you want your kids to respect law enforcement, teach them by example. You can’t put the blame on the NRA for lawless hoodlums. If you want to blame anyone, try BLM, and I don’t mean Black Lives Matter. I’m talking about Barack’s Looting Mobs who hijack every situation where a black hoodlum gets shot by a cop and they promote rioting and looting. They commandeer the BLM cause/banner to mask their criminal tendencies and try to pry the rift bigger, just like Obama did to create more disharmony between races. Obama used them as part of his big plan. Obama isn’t so different from Manson, they both wanted to create a race war in the U.S. so they could grow or retain more power.

      1. That’s the way it is New York City if you’re mugged you basically have two choices run away or hand over whatever the sleaze ball wants. If you defend yourself and you hurt the scumbag he comes back and sues you for everything you have or will have.
        I’m waiting for New York City to unionize the muggers so they can have a medical plan.
        If you choose to be a professional mugger you must be prepared for the occupational hazards of that occupation like death.

    8. I was raised with guns and hunting. Went to vietnam for two years and made life and death decision every day. I don’t need anyone trying to tell me about when to use my guns. government leave me and mine alone.

    9. only God can help them now, since they are forbidden to help ourselves…thank goodness we live in Texas; good luck with passive resistance here.

      1. I, fortunately, live in the good Commonwealth of Virginia where firearms laws are even more liberal than in Texas. Please join us in the free state where we honor all CC licenses/permits, and OC is legal without a license/permit and legal for all citizens of the USA who are legally allowed to possess firearms.

    10. I’m beginning to see where the democrats get their anti gun ideas. They are inherited from the EU. After the Orlando and Berkley incidents the first words out of Obama’s mouth was stricter gun laws. After the Paris incident the European Union convened and the first thing announced was the same damned thing. If memory serves me correctly, England was disarmed shortly after WW2. The attitude seems to be inherited by own Democratic Party. None of them go anywhere without their body guards armed to the teeth. All we have to do is let Trump have his travel ban and lock up the entire 4th, 9th and what ever court in Hawaii and Richmond Va. Simple as that. Yeah, right!

        1. Oldvet, you are so right. I didn’t forget but the Brits brought this on themselves with the joining of the EU. So far since Pres.Trump’s election I don’t think we have anything to fear that we as citizens of the USA will not be drawn into that idiotic UN action.

      1. I agree Bill they want their protection with them,yet they want to restrict or deny us the safety &protection a gun would provide for us.These people(mostly democrats who are afraid of the common people that they lie to constantly) rant&rave all the time that are for the people, yet want to deny them their constitutional rights daily!!!

        1. RWD, I am a democrat and have carried for 20 years with. CWP, but I have owned guns since I was 9. Republicans have pushed for stringent gun laws also. Re: Reagan and the Brady Bill…. Do not be deceived by the evil one.

          1. Don’t group Reagan in with the Brady Bill. He still sided with the right to keep and bear arms after he was shot. The Brady Bill didn’t pass until 1993 when CLINTON was in the White House. Daddy Bush was more wishywashy as he “resigned’ his NRA Life Membership during a re-election campaign. I feel like his membership was only a campaign ploy to begin with.

        1. It sure where the “caps are shouting ” thing started, but it doesn’t bother me at all. In fact, given my vision on these tiny phones, it is easier for me to read caps. Let’s don’t be so dang sensitive and get those undies unbunched out there.

    11. Re the sagacious advise from British officialdom, or might it be “officialdumb”, what might the law abiding Brit do? Hope, pray, hide somewhere, under his or her bed perhaps, who knows as guidance appears to be lacking. Sounds to me like an important point is being missed here, somehow.

      1. Man I feel for the GOOD people in UK. They have got to get rid of the idioits running that country. Arm up and aim for the neck up.

    12. The police are part of the problem over here all too busy harassing and victimising anyone that tries to stand up for themselves or other Britain’s. You quite literally cannot defend yourself without the risk of prison .all forms of self defence can put you inside . Anything they decide that can be used in defence is illegal. I have witnessed with my own eyes how British police operate even in small towns , park up around the corner until the public put an end to the disturbance, then come charging in and arrest the ones least likely to resist . Europe is already lost not sure we can save Britain . You guys still have a chance
      I wish you luck
      A once proud Brit .

      1. David, what you said is what I feared was the case in the UK. I’m sorry for you and the loss of your great culture (which we share).
        What happened to a People who could inspire phrases such as these these?

        Men of Harlech, on to glory!
        See, your banner famed in story
        Waves these burning words before ye
        “Britain scorns to yield!”
        Thomas Oliphant

        “And gentlemen in England now a-bed
        Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
        And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
        That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day”.
        William Shakespeare

        If you go to Museums–there’s one in Whitehall–
        Where old weapons are shown with their names writ beneath,
        You will find her, upstanding, her back to the wall,
        As stiff as a ramrod, the flint in her teeth.
        And if ever we English had reason to bless
        Any arm save our mothers’, that arm is Brown Bess!
        Rudyard Kipling

        “People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”
        George Orwell

        1. We Americans have it right – This excerpt is from a Marine who was a Khe Sahn in 1968 -“This siege lasted for 77 days and was the most intense fighting of our history. Some reports say there were 1,000 of us and as many as 400,000 of the enemy. Other reports show 6,000 Marines at Khe Sanh, but this was not the Combat base. This figure had to include the surrounding hills and supporting units. Khe Sanh Combat base wasn’t that big! Essentially, it was a runway. We were taking some 1,600 rounds of incoming per day every day on this tiny piece of real estate. Someone calculated that we had an explosion from an enemy device every 30 seconds day and night for 77 days. I had been called away from my safe hole when they found out my secondary mos was Ammo/Tech. It was during this time that I spotted a reporter and asked him if he would please mind getting a message back to the world for me. He asked “What is it?” I told him and he looked shocked and asked if I would mind writing that down. I said “Sure” and wrote it on a C-Ration case. That message is: “For those that will fight for it…FREEDOM …has a flavor the protected shall never know.”

          Semper Fi!

          — L/Cpl Edwin L. “Tim” Craft, B Co 3rd AT’s, Khe Sanh Combat Base, February, 1968

          But that is why you need to love freedom … you can tell the government to pound sand.

          1. @VE Veteran- Old Man’s Club, Message Received, and thank you for the sacrifices that you have made for our freedom.

      2. @David You would be surprised what a bar of hard soap in a knee length sock will do, and if you are asked to explain we always called it our boy scout wash cloth.

        1. I prefer a bank roll of 20 Kennedy half dollars. Or the 1776-1976 halfs that inspire patriotism. But to each his own. Carry on !

      3. Fortunately, plenty of parts of the U.S. aren’t too concerned with self-defence and also allow for the use of deadly force for property and honor defense.

        1. Yes Gil, I have the GOD GIVEN right to defend my property and not be a victim of robbery. If he’ll steal my wallet, what’s to stop him from stealing my life or the life of one of my family members. Gil, you just don’t get it. What do you say about the hunting trip Gil? Just give me an address and I’ll pick you up. Sure we’ll have a great time.

    13. Back in WW2 my grandfather donated a 1903 Springfield rifle to be sent across to Britain and help to arm The Home Guard. Seeing as the Bobby’s and the Administration there are so anti-gun? I’d like it back.

      1. Old, unfortunately, all 300,000 odd rifles that were donated were destroyed after the emergency was over (iow we saved their sorry butts once again for which we received scant thanks or credit). Can’t have the hoi polloi armed to the teeth or anything.
        OTOH – there just ‘might’ be a few of them squirreled away somewhere – just in case. But woe unto a mere citizen actually use it……………

      1. Alan, most of them – while willing to do what they should – simply will not as most of them are STILL unarmed and cannot intervene in a life (yours) or death (theirs) situation. PCs stood around (more or less) while Drummer Rigby was slaughtered. And it took EIGHT minutes for a flying squad to arrive on scene at the latest murderous rampage. But it’s OK since the victims were a diverse group, or so the London chief claimed.

    14. I never want to be in a position where I cannot defend myself or others from someone trying to kill us.
      Never would shoot someone over material items only in a life and death situation.
      That is why I have a concealed carry permit and carry a Kimber Micro 9 with +P Hornady ammo in it.
      I know what I am doing and I would not be afraid to act if necessary.

      1. @Deerhttr How would you describe the young man who was shot to death trying to stop his friends from being robbed. Was he defending material items?

        1. @OV, Who in the Bible said that there is no greater love than a man give up his life for his friends? Or something like that. I would describe such a young man as a good intentioned amateur that really needed training, mentoring, and practice, but now is too late.

          1. @WB maybe the PPP will correct me but I believe that was Jesus Christ him self talking to his disciples. But my point to Deerhtr was did he realize what he said and or did he mean it the way he said it. In the situation of the young man my thought would have been to protect my friends.

            1. exactly right, John 15:13 for anyone who might be interested “Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.” NIV

    15. if citizens/subjects have guns, the police wont know whos who…heres a hint, the bad guy is over there dead, weve been waiting for you to get here officer…and the innocent aint running all around firing at will

    16. I’m 78 and cannot walk more than 15 min. and CERTAINLY cannot run! BUT as long as I am strong enough to hold my handgun, AR or shotgun in firing position and pull the trigger YOU BETTER NOT attack me or my family or other innocents near me!

    17. I agree that the 2nd is one of the best things that is in our constitution, but alas the biggest problem as I see it is the progressive left is allowing the enemy in as we speak. The enemy? Islam. We are at war with Islam, there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. Either your a Muslim, or your not. There is no in between.
      This is all about the one world government, and in order to implement it we must be disarmed.

      1. Hoss Green:

        Sorry to disagree strongly, The enemy is NOT Islam, the enemy is ignorance. OUR ignorance is that we paint every Muslim with the same brush, and that’s WRONG and hate-filled! THEIR ignorance is the blindness of the power of God (not Allah’s).

        (Before you paint me with the “Muslim lover” paintbrush, please know that I pack a .40 cal Jericho if I’m outside my home, except for the obvious state-denied locations, I teach in a Bible-believing church where the large number of packers in the congregation has been commented on by the pastor in one of his sermons). And guess what? We’ve had a number of Muslims convert in our church.

        Jesus loves me, and He loves you, and He loves them, too. Yes, Hoss, there IS an “in between” in this world…….

        I have two Muslim families on my (short) cul-de-sac street, As well, I have a number of Muslim friends, and none of them are killers. Some of them have become citizens. I would welcome you to meet with me and them for a meal (my treat), and YOU get to pick out which ones are radical Islamists. God bless you and yours, and may you be touched to reconsider your stand in the light of Scripture.

        1. Just out of curiosity. Do your muslin friends condemn all acts of violence/terrorism committed by muslim’s? From what I read, few if any condemn terrorist and in fact seem to side with and support them. Remember Jeffrey Dahmer was a nice guy and his neighbors like him.

          1. Greg:
            1. All of them do. And two of them are Saudi citizens. There are good people everywhere, and bad ones, as well. And my non-WASP friends are not “muslin”.
            2. Good for you for trying to read up on what goes on in the world. You’ve not found the information about the other side of the coin yet, however. Keep reading…..
            3. Your comment about Dahmer is irrelevant. Joseph Stalin had scores of Americans who thought he was a fantastic leader, prior to WWII.

            1. Houston, rather implying he’s a bigot, learn about Islam. Read the Qur’an and Hadith, then look at world history, read about the Barbary Wars and why our Marines are nicknamed Leathernecks.

              To be a good Muslim, he/she must believe in all facets of Islam, which much more than just a religion.

              Islam is incompatible with Western Society and values, which why there has been so much conflict. Being in the USA, we are greatly sheltered from the world around us.

              Travel and reading helps us become better informed.

            2. Wild Bill:

              HHhhmmm…I presume that you aren’t interested in different shades of understanding, are you? Please define what you mean by “Good Koran following Moslems” for us; that appears to be a GROSS overstatement of the grandest order. There are millions of Muslims who don’t give a flip about which “mullah/imam/other-named-cleric” has issued what fatwah about which verse of which Surah. Yes, there are some percentage of Muslims who are tickled to have a basis to kill Christians/Hindus/etc., but there are FAR more that live in peace with all those denominations, and many more. In fact, there are some ignorant people here in the US of A who will twist Christian Scripture to justify THEIR rank prejudicial and twisted logic, That’s evident from other comments made on this vein.

            3. Heed the Call-up:

              I suggest you investigate the definitions of “imply” versus “infer”. I have NOT implied ANYONE is a bigot; but I state that YOU may have inferred it. Please don’t put words in my mouth

              Second, ignorance is not a dirty word, it just means someone doesn’t know something. But ignorance is truly remarkable, because it allows someone with little knowledge to make broad statements about others and other subjects when they themselves don’t know what they’re talking about. You appear to imply that I should take the time to “learn about Islam”. Well, I spent several years in the Eastern Province of SA, speak some Arabic, have travelled in the ME — what’s your validating history? I’ve read the Koran, and re-studied much of the portions again for context in a modern setting., and much of the Hadith, plus the writings of more than one of their modern commentators — and you? I know something about many of the sects of the Muslim faith. Do you know the different branches of Islam, and how deep would that knowledge be? I will state my strong belief that if ANYONE makes statements such as you and Wild Bill do, they have a woefully pathetic knowledge of the whole subject.

              You have my best regards, and prayers…..

            4. Houston, yes, I inferred that you were implying he is a bigot. You didn’t call him one, which I didn’t state you did, but your post made it obvious, just as your reply to me implying that you are so much more worldly and intelligent than me. You must believe you are more intelligent than your posts make you appear. I am not going down that rat hole.

              In all of your “education” on Islam, you seem to not have understood what you read and learned. Your ignorance is also only inferred, but, it too, is obvious. Countries that are majority Muslim did not become so out of piety of the Muslims, but by the sword, literally. You also ignore the obvious that Islam (Submission to God – Allah) is not compatible with any other religion nor to those of us that are not religious nor believe in a “supreme” being(s). Islam is above all else. You may believe yourself to be a “servant of God”, but when “push comes to shove”, unlike the Christian beliefs, killing kafirs is acceptable and encouraged. As a supposed learned scholar of Islam, you should know these precepts and more, which why it is unbelievable that you know what you are talking about.

              I work with Muslims, too, that doesn’t mean I trust them. Only a fool would, based on what their “holy” book tells them how to conduct themselves in relation to kafirs. I don’t expect any of them to go “San Bernardino” and kill me, but I am sure those at that Christmas party weren’t expecting that, either.

              Yes, I am sure that, just like Christians, or any other religious group, there are those that are more devout than others. But Penn and Teller learned that *all* tigers are dangerous, too late. When you see what happens to a community after Muslims begin to takeover, it’s clear Islam is not compatible with Western Society, mores and values.

            5. Houston, you stated, “[t]here are millions of Muslims who don’t give a flip about which “mullah/imam/other-named-cleric” has issued what fatwah about which verse of which Surah. […] but there are FAR more that live in peace” True, just as only less than one percent of the US citizenry are in the military, there doesn’t need to be that many. Even the Qur’an addresses that. History has shown what Muslims can and will do, European history is filled with that.

        2. @Houston Res, Jesus may love you and he may love me, but Mohammad and his followers do not. Good Koran following Moslems support the destruction of all other religions, forms of government, legal systems, and life styles.

          1. The traffic cop for comments and got confused somehow. This reply is for the last two comments to me from Heed the Callup, NOT for Wild Bill..

            Heed the Call-up says:
            June 20, 2017 at 1:56 AM

            Houston, yes, I inferred that you were implying he is a bigot. You didn’t call him one, which I didn’t state you did, but your post made it obvious, just as your reply to me implying that you are so much more worldly and intelligent than me. You must believe you are more intelligent than your posts make you appear. I am not going down that rat hole.

            Comment to Heed: No matter what someone says, you have the ability to know what was in their brain and what their intents are. That’s amazing. How in the WORLD did you arrive at such an arrogant tirade as that? Like I have said, ignorance allows a person to make statements that are totally wrong, and you’ve proven my point.

            In all of your “education” on Islam, you seem to not have understood what you read and learned. Your ignorance is also only inferred, but, it too, is obvious. Countries that are majority Muslim did not become so out of piety of the Muslims, but by the sword, literally.

            Comment to Heed: You obviously have different beliefs than I do, and that’s fine. My “education” and life experiences are different, as well. Is that surprising? I’m ignorant about MANY things, but I know that. I surmise, however, that you feel that your take on things is the only valid stance, and anyone who holds other viewpoints is truly an idiot. “None are so blind as those who will not see.” Plus, YOU have the privilege, and you use it, to lecture people who may or may not know more than you do. Wow…..

            You also ignore the obvious that Islam (Submission to God – Allah) is not compatible with any other religion nor to those of us that are not religious nor believe in a “supreme” being(s). Islam is above all else. You may believe yourself to be a “servant of God”, but when “push comes to shove”, unlike the Christian beliefs, killing kafirs is acceptable and encouraged. As a supposed learned scholar of Islam, you should know these precepts and more, which why it is unbelievable that you know what you are talking about.

            Comment to Heed: You’ve kicked up a herd of rabbits, in case you didn’t realize it….my previous comments NEVER touched on any of the many facets you enumerate. That’s called setting up straw men, so you can knock them down. Neat. You’re impressive.

            I work with Muslims, too, that doesn’t mean I trust them……

            Comment to Heed: Yeah, I think I know exactly what you mean. One parallel is those unidentified participants on blogs, where they can be anonymous. I converse (“work”?) with ‘em, but that doesn’t mean I trust ‘em. I know some of them, but the ones I don’t know are far more numerous…..

            …..Only a fool would, based on what their “holy” book tells them how to conduct themselves in relation to kafirs. I don’t expect any of them to go “San Bernardino” and kill me, but I am sure those at that Christmas party weren’t expecting that, either.Yes, I am sure that, just like Christians, or any other religious group, there are those that are more devout than others. But Penn and Teller learned that *all* tigers are dangerous, too late. When you see what happens to a community after Muslims begin to takeover, it’s clear Islam is not compatible with Western Society, mores and values.

            Comment to Heed: That characterization is illogical and unreasonable. It could be used as a foundation to denigrate almost any person, group, or nationality you choose to go after. Incidentally, I personally believe that Penn and Teller KNEW that “*all* tigers are dangerous”, that’s why they had the props and chairs. Yah think maybe?

            You rattle off too much. Yes, I’m implying something. You might even be able to infer what that is.

            In short, I have better things to do than waste time on such as this. So, you can claim victory, and be PROUD, Bucky! Later……

            1. Houston, you wasted a lot of time and typing to prove I am right about what I said about you.

              And provide a weak retort about straw men and how your so wise and worldly and rest us are all just a bunch of fools. I’m surprised that you forgot to say we are all just rednecks and yokels.

              So where in the goal of Islam, that there will be no peace until the entire world is Islam is there room for the rest of us?

              History and current events show exactly how Muslims intend on reaching that goal. Have you discussed that with your Muslim “friends”? Did also forget the part about Muslims are not allowed to take nonbelievers as true friends or suffer the same fate as the nonbelievers.

    18. If not for citizens armed with firearms and other weapons, our nation would not exist. It follows that; if not for the same access to, and the willingness to implement, weapons we will cease to exist.
      [W3]

    19. America we made a huge mistake coming to Britain’s defense in WWII. They are nothing but gutless socialists who are not worthy of defense.

      1. I see you’re IQ results came back negative. Look further than what the state educational propaganda deems you fit to know .

      2. @Don Baker, I can see your point: Had America not become involved in WWII, then there would be no communism, today, nor any invasion of liberal Europe today. Most of the world, and quite likely Mexico, Canada, and the USA would be National Socialists, today. Something to think about.

    20. Might interest all to know, that there are still over 1 million (registered) guns owned by
      private citizens in England.

        1. These guns must be kept locked up when not in use with ammo locked up separately. This means that if needed to protect yourself you would have two locked cabinets to unlock as the guns are not allowed to be lloaded in storage. This pretty much means that people will be unarmed. Also remember that pistols are a complete no-no. Rifles will only be allowed if you can prove you have somewhere to use them. All guns are registered and the police can visit you at any tome of the day or night and demand to inspect them wih powers of confiscation if they are not happy for any reason. Ergo no guns for self defense. You can even get into serious trouble if you defend youself with a BB gun, air rifle or even a non-firin or blank-firing replica…

      1. @Lou, Worldometer tells me that there are about sixty-five and a half million people in the UK. So at best that is one firearm for each 65 and a half persons. Some of those gun owners will have more than one gun, and some of those guns will be antiques, too valuable to shoot for other reasons, or unserviceable. Many of the guns will be in the collections of the elites. Hmmm, what must I conclude from this?

        1. @American Pat, My point is that at best there is one gun owner in 65.5 persons (plus or minus) in the UK. And I must conclude that that is not enough for the population to protect itself.

    21. I think they should consider that over 95% of the British police force isn’t allowed to carry a firearm. They would be running and hiding with the rest of the unarmed civilians.

    22. Perhaps it’s time to reread 19th Century philosopher John Stuart Mill, who wrote,
      “War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things…. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”

        1. F66kOff, Old Useless Bill. Trust me, I can fight my own battles, and trolling, to you, is anyone who disagrees with your asinine, contradictory, hypocritical bs. Period. Fact is, I give meaning to your old, sad, end-of-life existence.

    23. What we are seeing in Europe is simply due to their gun laws. I remember reading that the licensed hunters in Michigan alone amounted to the 4th largest army in the world. Now just think, that is to say those that can use their brain for something other than a smart phone, these ISIS fighters aren’t stupid. remember that the “mass shootings” here in the USA were all in gun free zones. Berkley, Ca. county office, Orlando, Fl. law is booze, no weapons. Ft Hood, Military base, no weapons,Think about it for just a second. We as US citizens have more guns than any number of countries across the pond. Not saying it can’t happen here just saying the chances are low for an organized attack as in London, Paris and Brussels. Keep alert, vigilant and aware of your surroundings at all times. The Europeans made their bed, let them sleep in it until they wake up and see the error of their ways, if at all possible. Just as some of our own states need to do. Just sayin”.

    24. Not even a thought here. I shall live and conduct my life in responsible “ready” to protect myself, my family and all others with the best and most direct tools available. Currently, these are Firearms. Evil is as cancer, it will propagate until it reaches a boundary that eradicates it. I will be that boundary when a crazy or jihadist enacts any harm on anyone. I care 0% what “laws or rules” are set forth to impede this. Let those who are deluded in creating such “laws and rules” that will eradicate evil. See how that works out. Semper Fi.

    25. Without a firearm for protection in case of a terrorist attack that sying should be changed to ” RUN, HIDE and KISS YOUR A** GOODBYE”.

      1. Like “Duck & Cover” during the cold war…it’s really going to help if an Atomic Bomb lands in your area. Even back then, we called it “Duck & Cover & Kiss Your A** Goodbye”.

    26. As it plainly states in the movie Molon Labe, any gun laws that go against the 2A are inherently moot. We seem to be entering a time in our history where a terrorrist event could begin to unfold right in front of you at any time. There may be no time to call the “Just US’s” to come with their weapons to defend you. If some maniac is running down the street stabbing everyone he meets, wouldn’t it be nice to be able to help out your neighbor by placing a pellet right between the offenders eyes ? For me, that would really make my day. And to hell with the gun grabbers and all their illegal, unconstitutional “laws”. Our ancestors paid with their blood & treasure to give us the 2A, and I think it is only traitors who would attempt to legislate it away from us.

    27. These types of attacks have taken place here and were shut down quickly by armed people both LEO and Non. More will come and more of us are training than ever. They will kill some and we will kill them back. It’s a war and that’s what happens in war. The sooner you get through the OODA and figure it out the better it will be on you.

    28. This is the message from the leftist elite a**holes – “We know better, we’ll take care of it, and besides you’re not smart enough to figure out what end of the gun you should use.” This kind of B.S. is why we “the great Unwashed Masses” elected someone who wasn’t an establishment puke (politician). Because we are sick of elitist butt plugs trying to tell us how to live our lives and what is best for us. We can figure it out … trust me on this one. Thanks God for the Founding Fathers’ foresight in codifying our natural rights.

    29. Hers’s a hint for that sjw ‘police commissioner’, the bad guy’s at the scene will be the ones shooting at the cops.

      1. Excellent point! I sincerely hope that we all (in the US) come to our senses and see that ultimately we’re the last line of defence of our families and way of life. Unfortunately I don’t see it happening; people are just getting more stupid regarding these issues. And by and large, I don’t see LEOs standing up for citizens rights, but I applaud those that do.

          1. Yep, they are on our side. Right up until they get orders not to be on our side. They will try to confiscate guns in a heartbeat if their paychecks and pensions are on the line.

        1. Robert, a relative of my, since retired, convinced me over a number of discussions that it wasn’t up to him and LE to protect my family and me, that *I* am responsible for my family and myself, and that I need to carry. He convinced *me*, one who is very nonviolent, that the police will only arrive in time to take a report or, if lucky, a victim statement.

          I had always enjoyed target shooting, but never could imagine harming anyone. He changed my outlook by explaining that criminals really do mean to do harm to others, and will when the opportunity is there. They look for those that are the most likely victims, and prey upon them. He explained that most criminals are cowards that do not want a fight, only a submissive victim, and will more likely run when opposed.

          His work stories changed my outlook on what criminals are. They are typically stupid and unable to hold gainful employment, due to many issues – drugs, stupidity, psychological issues, you name it. I decided that I will not be a willing victim, that my family and my life are worth more. Since acquiring my CC permit, I have made it a point to learn about self-defense, armed and unarmed, and the laws concerning our rights to self-defense and laws regarding self-defense and firearms. This site, as well as several others have been integral in my education.

          1. You’re right about the criminals targeting “victims” (I assume you mean those that look like easy victims). I was at a store in Portland, OR with my wife one day. The 2 clerks working there were very small framed Asian women. As I was waiting for my wife, I glanced out the front window and saw a man pulling a scarf over his face and walking toward the store quickly. I didn’t have a gun then, but stood tall at the window (I’m 6’2″) staring at him, knowing if he didn’t back down, I would have to hurry these ladies and my wife out the back very quickly. Fortunately, he turned and left. I now have a CCW and CCL and carry daily, even at home. I also have had professional training and train on my own about twice a month. I am an avid supporter of the 2A, but I would encourage everyone that owns a gun to get professional training. You just can’t know what you don’t know.

        2. I agree, I cant believe that many leo types will put themselves in jeapordy by siding with citizens. Do you really think they posess that much morality? NO. Who is going to willingly turn themselves into a criminal. They wont want to give up all that power they will have in that type of situation. They are not on our side, you better just forget that. Same goes for the military. Yeah, a few might, but thats all it will be, a very few, mostly in rural areas.

    30. i would never harm another. Until this made news it had not even crossed my mind. I would be too concerned of harming innocent people, and it distresses me even thinking what if its a misguided student in fancy dress. How could you even look the parents in the face to say sorry, knowing you harmed their student child by mistake, because some cop thought it was ok to get gun owners with no training to defend against terrorism. Gun owners will mostly think the same, we drink tea and talk about quarry and fire at clay, we take extreme measures for safety, and a cop thinks we can just ignore all that, and walk round as rambo. Any sane person would think that is a ludicrously stupid idea.

      1. I’m guessing you live in the world that was once the proud home of men such as Churchill? He’d be disgusted.

        1. I have fought alongside the Brits. I know GD well that the pu$$y that wrote that is not representative of all the British people.

      2. Let’s put two of your sentences together, so they really make sense.
        “I would never harm another”. “Any sane person would think that is a ludicrously stupid idea”.
        It’s not just stupid, it’s an evolutionary dead end.
        NEVER harm another? Really? Not if you are assaulted? Not if they are attempting to rape or kill your spouse, child, or mother? If so, you are a pitiful example of humanity.

        Cops shoot bystanders by mistake too. Wasn’t there a bystander shot in the last London attack?
        Is alternative is to do nothing?
        Self defense is a continuum, not an either/or. Simply having a firearm doesn’t mean you can adequately defend yourself or others, but that is why training classes exist. When you have a nation that has spent decades systematically emasculating it’s population, it will take much more than training, it will take a change in the willing victim mindset.

        1. “Cops shoot bystanders by mistake too.”
          The difference is that cops can do that and if they can say “Good faith” 3 times without laughing it’s OK. For We the Peons, not so much.

      3. A number of years ago Obama went to the CDC and asked them to do a study on how many times a year a gun had been used to stop a crime. He thought he could destroy the statement that guns save lives. The results were never published by Obama because the CDC said that a firearm had been used 300,000 to 2 million times in a year to prevent rape, robbery and murder. 98% of the time the gun was just shown and not even fired.

      4. Was fixing to tell ckLunch what I thought but the rest of you have gotten the point across . He’s /she/ it is probably hiding so probably wont see it anyway.

      5. Ckwunch, so when some lowlife is beating you senseless you will be apologizing to him/her for unfortunately being in the wrong place at the wrong time? You can’t possibly be serious. Even though I am nonviolent, I will not allow myself to be a victim. I have now also decided that I will also carry a weapon to equalize the disparity of force, and when I can’t, I have also learned unarmed self-defense.

        I don’t drink tea and I don’t shoot clay. I do shoot paper targets and enjoy doing so; shooting is fun and relaxing.

        Yes, situational awareness certainly does help keep one safe, and everyone should practice that. A relative that is a retired LEO convinced me that it was *my* responsibility, not his or other LEOs, to protect my family and myself. He stated the police arrive only in time to take a report or, if lucky, a victim statement.

        No one on this site has ever made any comments to suggest that he/she believes that he/she is Rambo, and yes, we all believe that is stupid, as most of us also believe you are ignorant and/or naive. I hope you will continue to visit this site and educate yourself. We need more people to understand their responsibilities as humans and learn about self-defense, including firearms rights and laws.

        1. Sounds like Ckwunch is one of those Snowflake a**holes I mentioned in my previous post. I am of the old school and was raised to be a protector of the weak. But in his/her/its case only – I would not use my gun to protect them if they were being attacked out of respect for their anti – gun beliefs. He seems to be afraid of our amount of training, however I feel compelled to share an old axiom ” Keep your booger hook off the bang switch until your sure of your target.” Then its …

          Center mass – double tap. If in doubt empty the magazine! Nuff said.

          “Blessed be the Lord my strength who teaches my hands to war, my fingers to battle.”
          ” Here I am lord – SEND ME!”

      6. @Ckw, Could you, please, have your name tattooed on your forehead? We’d like to know what happened to you when you go missing, and your head is on an Islamic pole, on the green of Stupidshire, county of Pathetic, UK.

      7. there has never been a war that some innocent people have not died; to that thought would you rather, even though it was a death, not want to protect yourself or your family. i have to go with this thought ” keep on until all enemy quit shooting and let the Lord sort them out. don’t get the idea that i shoot for no reason, i am not going to let my samily be harmed so as some no life can buy drugs booze or anything . takes to long for the police tyo long to get to my house.

      8. You must not have children or grandchildren. I would not hesitate to take a life of someone that was trying to hurt one of my family members. Maybe you should make a point of getting some professional gun training before you criticize others. At least then, you would speak with limited knowledge.

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