Charges File Against Reloader Who Sold Stephen Paddock Ammunition

.223 M855 Green Tip Ammuntion
.223 M855 Green Tip Ammuntion
John Crump
John Crump

U.S.A.-(Ammoland.com)- Authorities have charged Douglas Haig, 55, of Mesa Arizona with selling “armor-piercing ammunition” to Las Vegas killer Stephen Paddock according to court documents acquired by the Associated Press. Haig works full time as an aerospace engineer and part-time as a manufacturer of reloaded ammunition.

Stephen Paddock opened fired on a crowd attending a country music festival from a room window of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino. The shooting killed 58 people before taking his own life. The police found a hotel room full of guns and spent cartridges.

According to the court documents police also found unfired armor-piercing rounds within the hotel room. Law enforcement was able to lift a fingerprint off one of the armor-piercing cartridges. Douglas Haig matched that print and was named a person of interest in the case after law enforcement found his name, and address on a box that was in Paddock's possession.

According to the court papers, Haig made and sold ammunition as a hobby. The documents also state that Haig did not have the proper licensing from the ATF to manufacture armor-piercing ammunition. The records do not indicate if Paddock used any of the ammo in the actual attack.

Haig and his lawyer, Marc Victor, held a press conference on Friday claiming that Haig was innocent. According to Haig, he met a well-dressed Paddock at a gun show in Phoenix, Arizona. He stated Paddock wanted to more tracer rounds than he had on hand at the show, so Paddock called him a few days later to set up a sell of 720 tracer rounds at Haig's house. Haig built the tracer rounds out of surplus military components.

Haig stated that Paddock informed him he wanted to do a light show with or for his friends in the desert. Haig could not recall the exact wording. He stated Paddock asked for something to carry the ammo, so he provided him with a box which had his name and address on it. The federal investigators used the name and address to track down Haig. Haig further states that he did not have any other dealings with Paddock.

According to Haig the size of the transaction is not out of the ordinary. He went on to say, “He pulled up very well dressed, very well groomed, very polite, respectful. He paid me, put it in his car, went on his way — at no time did he seem suspicious.”

“I had no contribution to what Paddock did,” Haig stated at the press conference. He says he is only a merchant and the government should not have released his name. Investigators were in touch with Haig shortly after the shooting. Haig claims to have received multiple death threats since his name was released.

Haig's name was mistakenly released when a judge in Nevada made the police warrant public without redacting Haig's name. Haig and his attorney stated that they do not expect to take any legal action for his name being improperly made public.

Haig was not aware of what happened in Las Vegas until agents from the FBI and the BATF told him 11 hours after the events unfolded. According to his lawyer, he cooperated with investigators “without hesitation.” Haig said he was “horrified that this man would do something like that.”

Haig further claims that Paddock did not use his ammunition in the attack because he only sold him tracer rounds. Haig's lawyer said in the press conference that his client does not talk to the press to protect his reputation. He also stated that to the best of their knowledge none of the ammunition that Haig has sold in the past has ever been used in a crime.

Haig has since shut down has ammunition business. He plans to plead innocent to the charges.

About John Crump

John is a NRA instructor and a constitutional activist. He is the former CEO of Veritas Firearms, LLC and is the co-host of The Patriot News Podcast which can be found at www.blogtalkradio.com/patriotnews. John has written extensively on the patriot movement including 3%'ers, Oath Keepers, and Militias. In addition to the Patriot movement, John has written about firearms, interviewed people of all walks of life, and on the Constitution. John lives in Northern Virginia with his wife and sons and is currently working on a book on the history of the patriot movement and can be followed on Twitter at @crumpyss or at www.crumpy.com.

  • 44 thoughts on “Charges File Against Reloader Who Sold Stephen Paddock Ammunition

    1. RULE NUMBER 1:
      ALWAYS REMOVE THE SHIPPING LABEL FROM ANY AND ALL BOXES YOU HAVE ON HAND, WHETHER OR NOT YOU PLAN TO RE-USE THEM.
      YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN SOMEONE MIGHT USE THAT LABEL AGAINST YOU, LIKE BREAKING INTO YOUR HOUSE BECAUSE THE BOX CAME FROM A FIREARMS RELATED SOURCE.
      RULE NUMBER 2:
      DO NOT IGNORE RULE NUMBER 1.

    2. All the anti- American anti-second amendment proponents will say and do anything to make guns and ammunition evil and try and make us who exercise our constitutional rights look evil. Some one sold some reloaded ammo legally to an unknown person. Big deal. And legal ammo and tracers. All legal. The real question is who and what is the evil party or parties who committed mass murder in Las Vegas. And for what reason?Still unknown and covered up by whom?

    3. He was reloading from his components .308 AP ammunition. He was not reloading customers brass, but manufacturing ammunition without a license. He failed to collect and pay the federal excise tax of roughly 10%. His crime is tax avoidance.

      1. If it is a hobby and not a significant source of income he does not need to have a licence nor does he need to declaire taxes on it…and even if he should need to declaire it he would not need to until he submitted his tax return and only he or the IRS would have that info. I know this because my buddy and I used to work on people’s (friends of friends) cars from our home garage as a side gig. The neighbors complained and called the police on us. They tried to bust us for running an unlicenced autoshop business from our home and not declairing our extra income. After a short investigation they determined that our “business” was just a hobbie and our profits were below the threashold that would require us to get a licence and declaire our business for tax purposes.

    4. I guess I should bother responding to John Crump postings because apparently he doesn’t like the truth I try to get out.
      I’ve noticed that on ammo land quite frequently…can’t ruffle the state worshippers feathers.

    5. “Haig’s name was mistakenly released when a judge in Nevada made the police warrant public without redacting Haig’s name.”

      Anyone who believes the judge made a mistake when he forgot to redact Mr.Haig’s name needs to report to a rehab center for treatment of their drug problem.

    6. Wait a minute, back the truck up, the article says they lifted Haig’s finger print off an armor piercing round. If he did not sell armor piercing rounds to the killer how did his finger print get on the round. He may be lying and in deep doo doo.

        1. Jef, from the article:

          police also found unfired armor-piercing rounds within the hotel room. Law enforcement was able to lift a fingerprint off one of the armor-piercing cartridges.

          sure looks like you are mistaken. BUT…. it could be tne news is a wee mite on the innaccurate side of things… but then, THAT”s never happened before, has it?

          As far as I know, possession of AP rounds is not illegal. But then, with 30,000 pages of fed gun laws, they could have snuck that one in somewhere and I didn’t know about it.

          Looks to me like the coppers are looking for anyone anything any thought that could possibly implicate more people… you know, to make “the gun problem” larger than it really is. Bust another innocent for a techinical “crime” that harmed no one, and it inflates the “gun problem” one more notch. “See, someone ELSE is caught breaking some jot or tittle of THE LAW.
          None of this nas anything to do with that shooting…. and we STILL don’t have any answers for WHY there is so much evidence for multiple shooters, HOW ll that “arsenal” mnaged to find its way into that hotel room, etc.

          1. You said a mouthful. What do we know about the “real” crime amounts to just over ZERO. Whatever the deal with this guy in the story the public has Zero info on many points about the story…

          2. What I noticed is, they called it “armor piercing” but failed to describe the round. I don’t trust very many people to know the difference between tracer and armor piercing ammo based on the color coded tip. I’ve known Infantry Officers who didn’t know the difference between the old M196 tracer (red tip) and the newer M856 tracer (orange tip). Hell, some of them couldn’t tell the difference between a G3 and a FN FAL. I wouldn’t rule out that the LEOs couldn’t make that mistake also. Now, people who know realize that a black tip identifies a round as “armor piercing” but, I have heard some ignorant people talking about the “armor piercing green tip” ammo. While the M855, 5.56mm, 62 grain, green tip round does have a “steel penetrator”, it does NOT conform to the ATF’s definition of “armor piercing”. Also, to be perfectly honest, I have never seen a 5.56mm x 45mm “armor piercing” round in 22 years as an active duty Infantryman in the US Army. So, I’m not buying what they’re selling.

            1. I agree 100%. We keep getting told by the media that he was using an AR-15 with a bypod and a bump stock. If he was using 5.56 rounds what AP rounds would they be talking about? If he was using the bypod then the bump stock would not work as designed and if he was using the bump stock then he could not have been utilizing the bypod even if it were on his gun. Furthermore, if he was using the AR-15 and Haig sold him 7.62 AP reloads then that ammo would not have even been used to commit the crime unless he was using an AR-10 or scar or some other semiauto chambered in 7.62×51 and not an AR-15.

      1. @tomcat, from the report I saw I think last Friday, Haig got charged for possessing armor piercing ammo which
        he did not have a federal license for, and the 2rnds were found at his residence, not at the crime scene.
        It don’t matter if he made them or not, just having possession of them is illegal from what I gathered from the news.
        his prints done him in. All my ammo boxes cartons, pill bottles, or anything else with your name on it should
        totally be destroyed, or it can come back to bite you in the rear end.

      2. @Tomcat – I think you may be on to something. This article is WAY sketchy, though. I wouldn’t necessarily chock it up as unbridled truth. Sounds like there is a lot of misinformation.

    7. Only 30 AP & APT are illegal to own. Black tips. Green tip 5.56 is not a. AP round and is not classified as such. With all the essays written above one thing is overlooked. This man should not face time for what he did. The DOJ and FBI are just seeking to make an example and this will lead to further legislation to make laws against hand loaders. Remeber who’s DOJ and FBI it is that’s in control of this situation. Total anti 2nd and anti 1st amendment Obama and Killery politicians.

      1. Some regular hunting ammunition is capable of armor piercing. Do they mean bullet resistant vests or thru a car body? would like to see if forensics can make it up to his reloading gear.

    8. I’ve been waiting since Saturday for someone to clear up this story – and the comments here clear it up much more than the article.
      This article, like all the news I saw, said he was charged with making armor-piercing ammunition, then talked about tracers, which (as someone else said) is entirely different. I’m not a lawyer, but I know of no prohibitions from BATFE on tracers. One article said it was .308 ammunition and I’ve not seen anything except talk about him using AR-15s.
      I think the bottom line here is that what he was really busted for was having a side business. There’s a fine line between a “hobby business” where you sell things you’ve made and doing it for “livelihood and profit” when you make your living doing something entirely different.
      It looks like they busted him so they can say, “Look!, We got someone!”

      1. Agreed. AP rounds are not illegal. Now API rounds are illegal in some states like CA. Last year I legally bought 200 rounds of black tip 30-06 AP surplus ammo in California after I looked it up and found out what the CA DOJ says about it on calguns. Black tip AP=ok silver tip API=illegal (in CA).

    9. DAMN that pesky 2nd amendment! You slaves had best except “our” NEW Second Amendment of the amended US Bill of Rights… (sorry, we no longer follow “proper procedure” for amending these pain in the ass listed rights)
      A well regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed EXCEPT:
      You are buying the firearms for yourself.
      EXCEPT: you want to open a gun store within 500 feet of a residential area.
      EXCEPT: you are carrying within 1000 feet of a school.
      EXCEPT: you are under indictment or information for a felony for which the judge could imprison you for more then one year.
      EXCEPT: you have been convicted of a felony or any other crime for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more then one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation.
      EXCEPT: you are a fugitive from “justice”
      EXCEPT: you are an “unlawful” user of or addicted to marijuana or any depressant,stimulant, narcotic drug or any other controlled substance.
      EXCEPT: you have ever been “adjudicated” mentally defective or you have ever been committed to a mental institution.
      EXCEPT: you were dishonorably discharged from the armed forces.
      EXCEPT: you are subject to a restraining order restraining you from harassing, stalking or threatening your child or an intimate partner or child of such partner.
      EXCEPT: you have been convicted in a court of a MISDEMEANOR crime of domestic violence.
      EXCEPT: you have ever renounced your “United States” citizenship
      EXCEPT: you are an illegal alien
      EXCEPT: the firearm fires more then one round with the pull of the trigger
      EXCEPT: the firearm doesn’t have a vertical grip attached if it is a pistol
      EXCEPT: the barrel on a shotgun is not shorter then 18″
      EXCEPT: for sound suppressors
      EXCEPT: for “armor piercing” ammunition.
      EXCEPT: the rifle has a barrel no shorter then 16″. (It used to be 18″, but we accidentally sold some 16″ carbines to the public so we had to fix this and so we shortened the length to 16″ to cover our screw up.)
      EXCEPT: if it is a pistol there is no shoulder stock attached.
      EXCEPT: you carry it concealed, with a permit, which of course we issue and charge you for.
      EXCEPT: it has a magazine that can contain more then 10 rounds
      EXCEPT: the magazine is removable
      EXCEPT: it is black and looks scary
      EXCEPT EXCEPT EXCEPT…stay tuned for updated version. We the psychopaths who own you have now concluded that this new 2nd amendment is in force and effect and that you have no rights guaranteed by ANYTHING UNLESS you are in the “big club” which of course you are NOT. So screw your rights. We are in control of your television set, your phone, your computer, your air, your water and especially your pretend rights. Oh, and by the way, just in case you are wondering…we have ENFORCERS for this who are willing to shoot your children in the back, your wife in the head, burn down your church with 17 children inside just in case you think we are kidding.
      One other thing…none of these exceptions apply to us. We are allowed to have whatever we want to kill you and maim you any time we want for whatever excuse we want. Just take a look at some of the wonderful things WE get to have by looking up Dillon Aero on YouTube.

    10. “The documents also state that Haig did not have the proper licensing from the ATF to manufacture ARMOR-PIERCING ammunition.”

      This could not have been more poorly communicated or written. You don’t need a license to manufacture armor-piercing ammunition any more than you need a license to manufacture ANY other kind or type of ammunition. As stated above, you do need a license to manufacture new and/or reloaded ammunition (any caliber or type) FOR THE PURPOSE OF RESALE as a means to support your family. In other words, you are doing it for the sole purpose of making a living. Poorly written, Mr. John Crump. And if it was a direct quote, you could have clarified. This is how misinformation gets spread online. Just conveniently leave something out…

    11. No, what’s gonna happen, Mark my damn words, is that before long we will have to have a special liscense to reload our own ammo, you watch. And of course that special permission slip will come with a price to be paid to the gubment.
      These people are stupid, and since k. And incompetent.

    12. They were either M855 steel penetrator rounds which are not true armor piercing rounds anyway, or they were M856 tracer rounds which do not have the same steel first core as the M855, or they were a mixed box of the two types of rounds but cannot be both steel penetrator and tracer in the same round.

    13. A lot of pontification going on! We all know that the government is the one entity that can do no wrong ( in their mind)! They will always find a law to cover their assets or hide it behind health and safety. Although anyone should know anytime you engage in business for profit, no matter what that business is, you need a license. That’s common sense and reason. I assure that they knew exactly what they were doing when they released his name. It’s part of their status quo, MO, whichever you prefer. Should be no surprise to anyone. Good luck.

      1. That’s all this is about. A face to put before the public to show good results of the investigation. Pity any cab driver who gave the dead perp a ride. They’ll be the next “person of interest”

    14. The fact is that if the govt. wants you ruined it can find a law, out of the many thousands on the books, that you broke or can be made to appear to have broken. It really doesn’t matter if you broke the law or not as the point is to bankrupt you with the legal bills incurred in defending yourself. If they can obtain a conviction and land you in jail that is just icing on the cake.

      Prosecution of cases like this have as their main purpose the intimidation of people who take their second amendment rights seriously. The govt. certainly doesn’t want people reloading ammo. They don’t want people to have any ammo at all. But that pesky 2A keeps getting in the way so they do their best to intimidate citizens with prosecutions like this.

      1. @D.R
        How very true ! They have a Never empty wallet,
        and your paying to hang yourself . Most working stiffs
        can’t afford to hire a lawyer for more than 1 court date.
        Let alone a big trial. So most take a plea deal that in ,
        the long run cost’s them far less. ( or so they thought )
        the Government uses their own tax money to get more
        money to go after someone else to get more money etc.etc.etc.

        1. There is a reason that “they” don’t follow the Constitution anymore. The reason is that the lynch pin was removed in 1913. Once the control of the monetary system was taken from the hands of the people and those in control could create all they wanted out of thin air with the collusion of the Federal Reserve, none of what we think matters anymore. None of what we do matters anymore.

          They have effectively enslaved the world to their fiat money systems based on nothing that they create out of thin air and are able to use to do whatever they want. We have no say in what they do. They control us because they have stolen the lynch pin to the system that was designed by our founding fathers to work. No, it was not perfect, as mankind is not perfect, but it gave us a very limited government that was taken away from us when the lynch pin was stolen in 1913. You see, Article 1 Section 10 and Article 1 Section 8 ARE what hold the whole apparatus together. Without it, we are nothing but serfs on a plantation that they control with their fiat unlawful, unGodly, theft system of paper money backed by nothing, created out of thin air with no recourse.

          Understand, that when the money had SUBSTANCE of SOME THING, and not just IMAGINATION, one of the recourse’s we the people had was to withhold taxes which could effectively shut the government down if they were engaged in some sort of insanity that no one agreed upon. Today, we could all quit paying them and they would just print up what they needed and thumb their noses at us.

          COMMUNIST MANIFESTO:
          Fifth Plank: Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. (The Federal Reserve Bank, 1913- -the system of privately-owned Federal Reserve banks which maintain a monopoly on the valueless debt “money” in circulation.)

          Sadly enough, with a little research you can see the United States is a functional communist country with all 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto in place. And it has been that way for many years. And that most Americans would fight to the death to keep it that way. Voting is a joke, writing your CONgressman/woman/it is a joke, (heavy on the CON) almost anything we do is a JOKE TO THEM because THEY control the MONEY, or should I say TOKENS.

          1. @MA, You sure type a lot without explaining anything. Richard Shithouse Nixon took the U.S. off the gold standard in 1971. So the currency was not fiat money in 1913. The currency became fiat money in 1971, and still is today.
            Nixon’s move was a response to DeGaul’s sending every American dollar in france to the U.S. government and demanded redemption in gold. The U.S. had to send the gold or faith in the U.S. dollars would have plummeted to the level of the franc. But in honoring the dollar, lots of gold went to france and braced up the franc. Nixon was out maneuvered by De Gual.

        1. red herring for two purposes: first, to raise the false pretense that “”law enforcement” have managed to unearth another “culprit” on whom to lay some of the guilt for the LV shooting, and second, to flex their anti-gun muscles in front of the public, thus adding to the charade that “we are keeping you safer because we got ________________ on a petty gun related charge”.

          Red herrings are always for a distraction from the truth, something these grubbermint dweebs do NOT want us looking at.

      1. 223 Remington with do that, so will 5.56 M193, neither designed or built to be armor piercing. Velocity defeats armor. adding Tungsten, Nickle or other metal or alloys only enhances performance. Speed kills.

      2. That’ll be ANY standard 5.56×45, copper jacketed, cup & core bullet then. I’ve shot holes in 3/8″ steel plate at 200yds using factory ammunition.

    15. Stop Drop , Pick up Your Brass !
      If you leave it at the Range you can go to Jail .
      Say What ? Yep , Leave Your Brass ,You don’t reload .
      The next to Collects it all up,(he reloads)
      Now your prints are on his bullets.
      (Damb ! Killed a Man from 35,000 ft.up)
      He Went Nuts and Your Connected .
      Now You Know Why the DI. Said Pick up your Brass .

      1. The process of cleaning and polishing the brass will remove the fingerprints, I used to clean and polish and reload my own brass in years past.

    16. So do you need a federal license to load m855 ammunition? here is something I found on the atf site.
      https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/person-who-reloads-ammunition-required-be-licensed-manufacturer
      Is a person who reloads ammunition required to be licensed as a manufacturer?
      Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit.

      No, if the person reloads only for personal use.

      [18 U.S.C. 922(a) and 923(a); 27 CFR 478.41]

      1. This has always been an iffy area. If I’m truly “running a business” and cranking out thousands of rounds which I advertise and promote, etc… I will concede that is subject to that rule. (Has nothing to do with M855 5.56mm ammo which is legal in all forms.) But a lot of us own a lot of reloading equipment. A friend or a friend of a friend offers to buy the components for 700 rounds of ammo and will pay you $xx to reload it for him, that’s just your basic “mow my yard” type of transaction. My neighbor scrapes out my barn with his Bobcat for $50… that doesn’t mean he has a Bobcat business.

      2. Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit.

        That’s a hole big enough to drive a huge truck right through it.

        If I sell my good buddy a box of ammo I reloaded for my cost to produce it, and he hands me cash, no livelihood, no profit. What if he decides he needs to compensate me for my time, wear and tear on my equipment, etc, in addition? Perhaps for profit but at one box a year thatn’s not for livelihood.

        The “transition” between “livelihood and profit” and just “profit” is a slippery, squishy grey area…… an area carefully crafted to be as vague as possible.

        How many boxes per year can I make and resell before it transitions from one category (hobby) to another (profit) then to the “Gotchya” category of “for livelihood AND profit”?

        Is this a law enactedby COngress and signed into law by a sitting president, oris this some administrative code BATF, an illegally existing organisation, inventing on their own? And WHY are FedGov having anything to do with ammunition, anyway? Its not amongst their assigned duties, per the Constitution….

        This is all about scapegoating. And we STILL don’t have any answers as to WHY all the personal video streams were wiped off the phones confiscated, nor why there is solid evidence for ,ultiple shooters, nor the multiple radically different timelines as to what happened when…….. indeed, a red herring, scurrying off into the distance to distract from reality

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