We Need To Fight Red Flag Laws Head On, Not Hide

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Red Flag Laws Are Dangerousto Our Liberty
Red Flag Laws Are Dangerousto Our Liberty

Virginia – -(AmmoLand.com)- AmmoLand News' pundit John Farnam recently wrote a thought-provoking article on how gun owners should behave in states that have adopted “Red Flag” laws, where your guns can be confiscated for an arbitrary amount of time-based on someone else's word that you are a danger to yourself or others.

Under Red Flag laws your “due process” won't come for weeks or months after they have already confiscated all your firearms, with no actual crime having been committed. And how does one even PROVE that they are not dangerous? And if a person is truly dangerous, why don't the Red Flag laws make any attempt to have the “dangerous” person taken into custody or to get them help?

Red Flag laws violate the the following Amendments to the Constitution:

  • 2nd (right to keep and bear arms)
  • 4th (protection against unreasonable search and seizures)
  • 5th (right to due process, just compensation, self-incrimination)
  • and 6th (right to confront accusers, cross-examine witnesses, have a public defender).

John and I are looking at this situation from two different angles. John's advice is meant to keep gun owners from being victims of Red Flag laws by having them stay under the radar. That is a laudable goal meant to save as many gun owners as possible from falling in the unconstitutional Red Flag web. John suggests hiding your gun ownership to as high a degree as possible. Only people with a need to know should know.

I look at hiding gun ownership as giving the gun controllers exactly what they want – gun owners going quietly into the night.

Red Fag laws are not about saving lives. They are about gun confiscation, plain and simple. While keeping a low profile will reduce your chances of becoming a victim, you will still never know if that 4 am knock on the door is coming anyhow.

I think we have to go in the other direction. We need to go on the offensive. We need to remind our fellow Americans, and politicians, that there are over 80 million of us and we are NOT going to go quietly into the night. In fact, we are not going to go anywhere:

  • We must educate others, every chance we get. Too many people, including many gun owners, have fallen for the soundbites that seem reasonable on the surface, but are lies and misrepresentations of the real effects of Red Flag laws. Many people simply don't know the truth. The Virginia Citizens Defense League has a flyer we encourage gun owners to print out and give away at gun shows and other events, and to give to reporters, family, friends, and coworkers – anyone that will take one. Feel free to steal the concept and create your own flyer, if you wish, or just use ours: vcdl.org/resources/PDF/RED_FLAG_laws_flyer.pdf
  • We need to write letters to the editor of our local papers and certainly never let a pro-Red Flag letter or editorial go unchallenged.
  • We need to call talk-radio shows and discuss the dangers that Red Flag laws bring to our way of life.
  • We need to educate politicians. If that fails, then we need to organize protests outside their local offices, which will hopefully be picked up by local news to spread the word even further.
  • We need to make it a priority to vote out of office any politician who supports Red Flag laws.
  • Gun owners in states with Red Flag laws need to work tirelessly to get those laws repealed.

All that said, John's article provided some advice which is good under all conditions: Don't make enemies if you can reasonably avoid it. Be a polite, civil, pleasant, courteous person. Don't inject yourself into other people's business.

The ongoing war against gun ownership, and most of our other American values continues to escalate daily and we have no choice but to meet it head on and to defeat it. Our opponents want to divide us and we can't let that happen. If you own a gun, regardless of whether it is a handgun, rifle, or shotgun, or regardless if it is for self-defense, target shooting, collecting, or hunting, or regardless if you think a gun-control law, such as a Red Flag law, won't affect you personally, we must ALL stand unified in protecting ALL of our gun rights. 80 million of us, standing as one, makes us an unstoppable force and the gun controllers know it.

Philip Van Cleave
Virginia Citizens Defense League

Virginia Citizens Defense LeagueAbout Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL):

Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

For more information, visit: www.vcdl.org.

  • 24 thoughts on “We Need To Fight Red Flag Laws Head On, Not Hide

    1. Mr. Van Cleave:
      Great article in response to the “run and hide” one. Your flyer is terrific also. Please make sure to send one to RINO Senator Lindsey Graham from SC.
      The old expression holds: “The squeaky wheel gets the grease”. Otherwise known as silence is consent.

    2. Finally, someone saying something similar to what I I’ve been saying to others, including two state assembly persons, about the dangers lurking in the RF laws. However, do any pro gun groups have pockets deep enough, the interest, the courage, and the will to battle for the many years it may take to finally defeat this spreading menace.

    3. Mr. Van Cleave,
      Your VCDL flyer is ‘very good’.
      It would be ‘excellent’, I believe, and even more effective, if it included the constitutional violations you mentioned in your article…

      “Red Flag laws violate the the following Amendments to the Constitution:

      2nd (right to keep and bear arms)
      4th (protection against unreasonable search and seizures)
      5th (right to due process, just compensation, self-incrimination)
      and 6th (right to confront accusers, cross-examine witnesses, have a public defender).”

      1. There’s no more room on the flyer, BUT I like your point and we will put that list on a “landing page” for the large media campaign in Virginia that we will be starting in the near future.

      1. Just un American this is a travesty of pathetic unjustified actions by communists invade India Real Americans lives any official that carries this act out is unamerican and must be ostracized as such Real Americans cant stand for this unconstitutional action

    4. How true on all points, why not use these Red Flag laws against the ones passing these laws, as they are proving that they are a threat to themselves as well as to others, put them in a position to prove their mental stability, it may not effect them the way gun owners but pull the 5 AM raids on them the way that they do on legal gun owners, that in my mind is a start, we only have to make the call!!!!!!

    5. When I first heard about these “Red Flag” laws, I told a friend that it sounds like something we heard about the U.S.S.R. back in the 60s. There were so many stories about how the citizens of the U.S.S.R. had no rights, had no voice, had no input in their daily lives and were only puppets of the oppressive government. My how the times have changed. Virtually all the stories we heard are now taking place here in the U.S.A. It was a slow process, like the frog in the pot of boiling water analogy, but here we are today. Us old timers have seen it happen, but they kids who were born in the late 70s and afterwards were born into this travesty and don’t know anything different and think it’s normal; it’s not! It has to stop, but I honestly don’t know if it will in my lifetime because it has already gone so far down the path towards tyranny where the government has no limits and no accountability and the support of so many sheep.

    6. The article while addressing misuses of the public trust by self serving servants when enacting EPROs, misses one vital encroachment upon our Rights, that being the First Amendment.

      Applying the premise “Nothing happens by accident in politics”, we can readily see then the outrageous statements by these servants, such as Swalwell and Harris are meant to, and have in many cases achieved their wanting responses by law abiding firearm owners, to-wit: “ pry my gun from my cold dead hands” or “you want a civil war”, or “come for my guns and it will be a bloodbath”, etc etc.

      These style social media postings in response to the servants advocation for confiscation of certain weapons will be the catalyst for Red Flag Warrants, perfecting the confiscation not only relative to the intended weapons for banning, but all weapons possessed by the law abiding.

      The article references a premise stay on the low, curtail your speech, be careful who you talk to, all plays right into this intended political agenda of the left, chilling the First Amendment Rights.

      Red Flag Laws are not just a backdoor confiscation ploy, much worse actually, it pits Rights against one another. Speech vs Keep and Bear. Exercising your 1st Amendment Rights, then your 2nd Amendment Rights are placed in harms way. To protect your 2nd Amendment Rights, one must remain silent, thus chilling First Amendment Rights!

      In a nutshell, this progressive warped agenda has fostered the exercise of constitutional rights, can now and will be, converted into a crime; a concept totally foreign to our Republic.

    7. Actually, it violates the 1st, 3rd 7th, 8th, 9th and 14th.
      The 1st is simple; Judges are putting “Gag Orders” on people being “Red Flagged.” They are also putting “Non-Disclosure” on the names of those “Red Flagging.” To top it off, when a person goes to court to get UnRed Flagged, the judge can consider anything that person has said online, which brings us to the 3rd Amendment.

      3rd Amendment; Quartering, is being employed via government and corporate spying on our internet communications, which is exactly why the British employed it in the first go around. To squash descent before it arises.

      7th Amendment: Seeing how it’s not a Criminal Law that get’s your guns taken it must be a “Common Law” where a judge is, in fact, setting precedence by taking your property without a crime committed. Certainly involves more than $20.

      8th Amendment: Is it and “Excessive Fine?” It’s something…it certainly takes away your “Natural Right” to Self defense, so it is, in fact, a “Cruel and unusual Punishment.”

      9th Amendment: Do I need to explain? If they violate the first 8 Amendments, they have violated the 9th automatically. It was written in and inverse fashion for a reason.

      14th Amendment: Well you get it, right? Pretty simple stuff here.

      Do you know why “Red Flags” violate so many rights? That’s right, because they violate the forbidden law making rules in Article 1 Secs. 9 and 10 Of the Constitution.

      So Unconstitutional, it’s pivotable, or not…depends on us!

      1. @Greg K, The Third is a stretch, but artsy. You do need to explain your Ninth and Fourteenth because I can not read your mind. The Seventh concerns the provence of juries at trial. Red flag statutes are pre-trial.
        I think that the Second, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth are stronger arguments, and can decide the current issues, and maybe even give the S. Ct. an opportunity to curtail excesses of past S. Cts.

        1. The 14th: No person “BORN or Naturalized…No state shall make or enforce a law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of the citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive a person of Life, Liberty, or PROPERTY without due process…” I know you get this Bill, so what’s the question on the 14th?

          The 7th is “Common Law.” Look it up…it concerns one person’s (in this case hearsay) argument against another. It also concern’s a jury trial, and Judge’s ability to render precedence against a person where no crime is committed. Pretty simple stuff. “Red Flags” are “No Trial!”

          The 9th guarantees to the PEOPLE all rights be preserved that are not addressed by the “Bill of Rights.” Had it been written that the the Rights of the PEOPLE were guaranteed by the “Bill of Rights” then those would have been our only rights, period. This is Madison’s brilliance at work, because in order for the 9th to ring true, then the first 8 have to be guaranteed as written, or they wouldn’t hold any water, so to speak. Think about it for a while.

          The 3rd is not a stretch at all. Our Government is violating it all the time. You are thinking of it as them moving physically into your home, but they are moving communicatively into our homes, and affecting us morally, mentally, and sometimes physically.

          Right now the Government is literally violating all of our rights, but that’s not the key…What’s super important is that they are writing laws that create agencies, for which they grant “Titles of Nobility,” to serve “Bills of Attainder (which a Red Flag is),” sometimes “Ex Post Facto.”—–>”Due Process”

          1. Just saying that you have to lay out your position. It is insufficient to merely mention one of the amendments and let others try to figure out what is on your mind.
            Interesting take on the Ninth. If, however, I had to actually draft briefs on this, I would not go with any of these, but rather go with the 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 6th. as they are more immediately germane. And I would build into the brief an opportunity for the S. Ct to roll back some of the decisions of prior S. Cts.

            1. Other than the 2 easy ones, I did explain them Bill.

              Obviously you didn’t read my comment on the article that spawned this one? As I said there; “”Red Flags violate virtually the whole Bill of Rights.” Not rocket science, it violates them because of the forbidden Congressional Law making that is being employed. This is emblematic of the Federalist/Antifederalist debates. There was a belief that they didn’t need to create a BOR, because it was already addressed in the first 3 articles.

              I guess you are just looking for an argument so allow me to amend my first statement; In place of “Actually, it violates,” insert; : It also violates” Better?

            2. Sorry Greg K, I have to disagree as follows: You write, “The 7th is “Common Law.” Look it up…it concerns one person’s (in this case hearsay) argument against another.” The Seventh does not apply to red flag laws because there is no case in controversy between parties. There is an accuser, the accused, and state actors. The case in controversy between parties comes later.

              As to the Ninth Amendment, what unenumerated Right retained by the people are you saying is being violated? Naming an unenumerated Right retained by the people is the first step in Ninth Amendment analysis.

              As to the Third Amendment, I can find no case where the Third Amendment was used to protect Americans from government “moving communicatively into our home” Ergo your Third Amendment is novel and a stretch, unless you can produce a case. Nor has the Third Amendment been incorporated against the states through the 14th Amendment. So that, too would run the risk of judicial rejection.

              You are welcome to brief your arguments based on any BOR clause you so desire, but if it were I, I would stick to the Second, Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth which have already been incorporated against the states through the 14th Amendment.

      2. It seems that the proponents of these edicts are making them such that they violate so many provisions of the US Constitution, we won’t even know where to start challenging them.

        In the spirit of the Marbury vs Madison decision, I refuse to dignify these miscarriages with the term “law.”

    8. Interestingly, in my post in response to Mr. Farnam’s commentary, I stated many of the points Mr. Van Cleave made in his rebuttal to Mr. Farnam. Mr. Van Cleave, in his well-written rebuttal, went deeper into detail and also covered the violations of our enumerated rights. We are fortunate to have the tireless Mr. Van Cleave on our side supporting our inalienable RKBA.

    9. Red Flag Laws have pushed America very close to what communist countries experienced post WWII. AOC and her ilk will become the norm if these laws continue. Our freedoms are now at risk of disappearing! Hugh

    10. Red Flag Laws are the primary pathway to Denunciation Nation. Denunciation Nation is the dream of progressives. Create a climate of fear, encourage and incentivize friends, families and neighbors to denounce those who don’t conform to the authorities and then create a legal system designed by Franz Kafka to incarcerate or otherwise neutralize anyone who gets in the way of progressives who want power. We should not be surprised at this at all. None other than Bill Ayers and his Weathermen thugs told us so over 30 years ago. This has been the thinking of the Progressive New Left since I was an undergrad at San Francisco State (Jonestown U) in the 1970’s. Their target is your liberty because leftist honestly believe you have no Creator and are not worthy of rights. They want power because they feel entitled and yes, they simply want. Everything. You are in the way. If you are armed and you are a critical thinker you are a public danger to their utopia. Arizona Citizens Defense League in the house!

    11. Thanks Phil, good point

      The controllers always want us to just be quiet and not do anything with all their laws, never accept any more infringement, never be ashamed to be a responsibly armed citizen

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