The Dark Side of the Universal Background Check Bill HR8


National Instant Criminal Background Check System NICS
The Dark Side of the Universal Background Check Bill HR8

USA – -( H.R. 8 is sold as a “background check bill” to keep guns away from bad people, but we know from 50 years experience that less than 1% of the bad people who fail the background checks are prosecuted.

Make no mistake, this is ONLY about setting up a process which can be later used for registration of guns and gun owners.

What is needed are not more background check laws, but enforcement of existing laws. If bad guys are illegally trying to purchase a firearm, they need to be punished. The lawmakerspushing H.R. 8 do not want to do that. They are not serious about stopping bad people from getting guns, they only care about gutting the Second Amendment.

Items not mentioned by most critics of H.R. 8 are:

1- There is no exception for Curio & Relic FFL holders as being exempt-only transfers to dealers, manufacturers and importers, and specifically defined close family members. This will end the ability of C&R FFL collectors to get items shipped direct, or purchase C&R handguns out of state, or ship direct to another C&R FFL holder. There are NO exceptions for C&R collectible guns, most of which are 50-120 years old.

2- The requirement for buyer and seller to be in front of an FFL dealer while they do the background check is a potential Trojan Horse to END ALL GUN SHOWS. If BATF writes the implementing rules to require them to be done at the FFL’s “place of business” it will end any transfers at a gun show, except from a dealer’s inventory to a person passing a check at the show. No “private sales” can be completed unless the ATF rules are written to allow a dealer to do that at a show. This threat to the existence of gun shows must not be underestimated. Remember, gun shows are the meeting place and rallying point for gun rights activists. Ending gun shows “would be a feature, not a bug” if they can write the rules cleverly.

3- H.R.8 allows charging a fee for a dealer to handle a transfer- but amount is unlimited. Transfer fees typically run $20-100 but mostly around $30-40 per gun. Although charged by the dealer, it is a de facto “2nd Amendment poll tax.” FIX; Mandate that all police stations be required to process background checks at no cost. Police stations are all over, gun shops may be many miles away.

4- H.R.8 specifically prohibits establishment of a national gun registry. But, it establishes the de facto process to gather the data which will reside in the dealer’s bound books forever. When a dealer goes out of business, their records are sent to ATF. Scanning and OCR technology can convert all dealer records they have, or care to photocopy during dealer inspections, into digital databases in short order. That may not occur right away, but only a fool thinks the gun grabbers will not push for a national gun registry as the next step when their plans fail to stop criminals and crazy people. A one line amendment in a “must pass” appropriations bill could repeal the prohibition on a gun registry.

5- The bill has a known built-in loophole that can only be closed by mandating universal gun registration. A loophole the anti-gunners will demand be fixed as soon as the bill becomes law. As proposed, there is no way for the government to enforce the law, as there is no way to know whether or not a person who purchased a gun from a private individual actually had a background check performed. When confronted by law enforcement, an individual could tell which dealer performed the check and hope that that dealer properly kept records. But a person who violated the law could simply refuse to answer any questions, and other than searching every paper record of every dealer in the country, there is no way law enforcement could determine whether or not the check was performed. The only way to prevent this is to mandate universal gun registration. The anti-gunners would love to implement such a requirement today, but they know it is not politically viable. They are choosing instead to get half today and the rest tomorrow.

6- Many dealers will not handle private transfers–Walmart ended all gun sales in New Mexico because they did not want strangers bringing guns into their stores, and the potential hassles or risks for failed checks. If no one is available to handle transfers, no guns can be transferred.

Utah Shooting Sports CouncilAbout Utah Shooting Sports Council:

The Utah Shooting Sports Council represents the citizens of Utah who safely and legally own and use firearms, exercising rights guaranteed under both the United States and Utah constitutions. Visit:

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The NEW Second Amendment of the amended US Bill of Rights… (sorry, we no longer follow “proper procedure” for amending these PITA listed rights) A well regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed EXCEPT: You are buying the firearms for yourself. EXCEPT: we already did away with the Militia by passing the Dick Act in 1903 EXCEPT: you say something that we deem to be verbally inappropriate. EXCEPT: you want to open a gun store within 500 feet of a residential area.… Read more »

Scotty Gunn

If NICS goes offline, then no transfers are possible, except from dealer to dealer. Imagine a time of crisis or disaster, and the government shuts off the background checks in that area.

Wild Bill

@me, I imagine that if the gov. shut off the background checks, then people might adopt the Texas transfer method.

Rock R

First of all, it goes to show that the time to prepare is now, By the time there is a crisis worrying about a background check is going to be kind of silly…. Second, IF a gun isn’t registered to you, as in you went through a background check when you bought it, why are you even worried about selling it with a background check ??? Why not just leave it on the porch and somebody must have borrowed it, nobody needs to know you found that cash in the chair…. Third, when they come for my guns, they will… Read more »


Good laws deserve to be obeyed and bad laws deserve to be disobeyed. If caught, IF caught, then you should be prepared for the consequences. This country was founded on disobedience of unjust and unfair laws (Boston Tea Party, open civil disobedience, etc.) but we have come so far from that as to routinely state, “We are a nation of laws” on a regular basis, which is wrong (unless you’re a lawyer or in the “justice” system), we are a nation of individuals, free individuals with God given rights that no one has the right to deny us or suppress.… Read more »

Autsin Miller III

@JPM well said. It seems to me that we are reaping the fruit of the liberal bias in the nations higher education system where they indoctrinate the students (particularly journalism) into the left leaning ideology that more government means a better life. I too worry about the country the following generations will inherit. As mainstream media continues to promote their agenda by editing what people see and hear they create the narrative. Look at what happened to Neil Degrasse Tyson! There is a story still developing where a man enters Walmart in Springfield Missouri with an AR style rifle, chest… Read more »


Maybe the guy wanted to make sure he was equally armed to protect himself from the next nut case that decided to start shooting folks in a Walmart. Seems like he was arrested for a thought crime.


ad I gots me a pet chikkin that can fly to the moon and back in a week…………


If “caught” subpoena every law, regulation, and statute under which you might be punished (Federal, state, and local) and have these read into the court record.


I am an absolutist when it comes to my right to be armed. There is only one constitutional gun law, The Second Amendment, which is supposed to restrict government. EVERYTHING ELSE IS AN INFRINGEMENT AND MUST BE REPEALED OR VOTED AGAINST.
And I mean everything; federal, state, and local.

Wild Bill

@WP, I agree. How about a Presidential statement that the Executive branch is co-equal to the other branches and as such has the authority declare statutes Unconstitutional and unenforceable. Then declare that all of these federal, state, county, and city fake laws null and void. All it would take is the executive branch asserting itself.


this makes perfect sense and is already spelled out in the COnstituton.

the duty of the President is to execute (enforce) the laws of the union. Elsewhere it declares that ONLY laws in the Constitution, and all laws duly enacted that are CONSISTENT with that Constitution, are law. All others are not law, null void, o=and of no effect.

This the 23K gun laws, not being consistent with the Constitution, are not law at all, and must NOT be enforced.

(I know, an ideal world and all that… but that’s what the words on the paper all say)


“…officials across the country called for expanding background checks to cover all gun buyers, including those making purchases at gun shows.” To read that, one would be led to thinking that background checks are not done at gun shows. That assumption would be wrong. Background checks of commercial sales are required at gun shows. Private sales, in most areas, are not subject to background checks, however it is still a felony to sell a firearm to prohibited persons, as well as a felony for a prohibited person to attempt to buy a firearm. It is the responsibility of the seller… Read more »


Every year THOUSANDS of ineligible persons Incl. Crooks, nuts etc. try to purchase guns by lying on the background form. It is a federal crime. The purchase is denied BUT HOW MANY ARE PROSECUTED. Closer to NADA, ZILCH, NOBODY. But the DEMOCRAPS want more backgrounds checks and the stupid and lily liver members of the GOP are going to vote for it. ATTENTION PUBLIC: The GOP needs people with BALLS because we sure don’t have many now and they are being lead by LINDSAY “NO BALLS” GRAHAM. South Carolina I know you have someone that can think better than the… Read more »


As I have said before shape all future laws around Trumps environmental rule writing. He won’t sign unless they send with each new rule 3 old ones that they canceled.

And prior to that take the 22,000 on the books now and pull all of the “dead wood” out and reduce to say 1,000. Really 22,000 is a ridiculous number, you can tell me most is not repeat info.,, and double talk that probably contradicts itself .

Wild Bill

@TLS, acceptability of “laws” based upon numbers? How unique. Why do we just go back to the Constitution? Then there would be only one law relating to arms.


Rand Corp conducted a survey of 95 “gun experts” in 2018 and found that the 76 who favored more restrictive gun laws held that Universal Background Checks alone would only be as little as 5% effective, but in combination with registration and a requirement for discretionary permits to own and carry guns, would be as much as 30% effective. Soon after academics at gun violence research centers published a study showing 10yr of mandatory Background Checks in CA had no effect they returned with work showing background checks *and* discretionary licensing to own and carry guns were effective.… Read more »


What happens during a private sale before a dealer when the buyer fails to pass NICS check? The seller then must fill out the 4473 and what happens if they fail NICS check? The dealer has 30 days to provide weapon to local law enforcement. Each check the dealer will charge a given rate – payable up front prior to the dealer initiating the check, covering the dealers time and effort. There is a high percentage rate of first denials being overturned on appeal. So again, the actions of a few wackos places undue burdens upon the law abiding, thanks… Read more »


Good piece. However, I don’t think that “gun shows are the meeting place and rallying point for gun rights activists.” The last gun show I went to was on January 9, 1999. I know the date because Sara Weaver included it when she signed my copy of her and her father’s book. The only reason I went was to meet and talk to them. Very nice people.


When Randy was living in Arkansas he and I became pretty good friends. One day he was at our dinner table with Elishaba (she was about 17 at the time) and her boy friend and we were eating green beans from the garden. He looked at me and said, “Sammy used to love home grown green beans”. I almost choked on mine. To get the complete story of Ruby Ridge from the man who committed the “heinous” crime of cutting off a shotgun barrel thus precipitating a raid on his life that took his 14 year old son from him… Read more »


All the proposed bills have significant flaws, especially those bills sponsored or supported by Democrats. On the other side of the aisle, the media has Republicans convinced they must pass some new gun laws or run the likely risk of losing re-election. It’s time for Second Amendment supporters and freedom lovers to stand up. It’s not enough to merely opposed these bad laws, we need to help come up with some answers. Find a better way to deal with the problem. Most of the proposed solutions to our gun violence will have little effect on the problem, by design. Let’s… Read more »


‘You can not legislate against a madman’ – Winston Churchill. The REAL risk the GOP faces is losing support (read: votes) from the pro-gunners in 2020. If the Dumbocrats want to gut the Second Amendment I say BRING IT ON! Confucius say: ‘Be careful what you wish for; you might get it’.

John Dunlap

Therein lies the rub. 2A supporters already know that if we are to have freedom, it must also apply to village idiots and lunatics, until the abuse that freedom. At that point, the only answer is return fire. There are some concrete issues that definitely need to be addressed, and that we could focus on. One is that fact that well over 50% of all mass shootings in the United States occurred after 1990. The 90’s just happen to be the decade in which SSRI’s and benzodiazepines became all the rage for treating a host of mental problems. Both drug… Read more »


the sad fact is that our legislators decided years ago to cut funding to mental institutions thus putting most of the mentally ill on the street. These poor souls are expected to take their medicine and live in society. In any Emergency Department across the nation there will be patients brought in by law enforcement, families, etc., for mental evaluation. Many of them will never be able to function in society in any capacity. Involuntary committal for psychiatric evaluation keeps them in the ED until some mental health entity accepts them for evaluation. They may be residing in the ED… Read more »


For once I agree with Bill O’Reilly. Bad guys shooting people is the price of freedom. Liberty is risky business. That’s why our Founding Fathers recognized our God-given right to shoot back. Making good people helpless does not make bad people harmless. A politician with a law never stops a bad guy with a gun. He only controls the good guys, which is his real agenda. The politician uses: the bad guy with a gun; the disturbed….quite possibly government Deep State manipulated, “nudged” individual with a gun; the traumatized family member of a shooting victim; the Feel- Good Do-Gooder; and… Read more »


if we are to have freedom, it must also apply to village idiots and lunatics, until the abuse that freedom. At that point, the only answer is return fire. yes, we do occupy a fallen world. So, no matter what, there will be some nutjobs and perverts who will do that which is prohibited in natural law….. rape murder, assault, theft etc. Your statement: the answer is to return fire” is precisely correct. That’s what civil government is given us to do.. bear the sword against those who do harm to others. When civil government happens to be unavailable in… Read more »


@ Tionico You pretty well summed it up by saying “the security of a free state”. That is exactly what they want to take away from us. Guns first and the rest is easy.


And by supporting mostly pro-gun republican because of one bad vote you play right into their hands helping to get a solid anti-freedom dem elected.


The socialists win by incremental attacks on our rights, Those republicans willing to “negotiate” are complicit in the erosion of all Constitutional rights. We already face a choice of “least unacceptable” during elections, and having to vote for a purported republican who has demonstrated a willingness to accommodate those who intend to destroy our national economy and global leadership in the name of global socialism is too much.