U.S.A. –-(Ammoland.com)-The ATF’s affidavit to obtain the search warrant (embedded below) against Polymer80 confirms the raid’s target was the company’s “Build, Buy, Shoot” kits. The affidavit also says Polymer80 did not supply the customer list that the ATF used in its investigation.
The ATF obtained the information about the customers from two sources that the agency subpoenaed. The first source was Stamps.com. (see the page marked “36” of the ATF Warrant embedded below) Stamps.com turned over the shipping information of Polymer80 customers to the ATF when the agency served them the subpoena. Polymer80’s credit card processing company, Authorize.net, also turned over credit card information to the ATF.
The ATF then ran the customers through the FBI NCIC system to see if those who made purchases were prohibited from buying firearms. Customer records obtained by the ATF were for purchases made between January 1st, 2019 and June 4th, 2020.
The ATF found that there was a total of 9100 purchases from California and 51,000 purchases nationwide. Of these purchases, the company sold 1490 ‘Buy, Build, Shoot” nationwide. Customers in California purchased 202 of the kits. One California man purchased $22,000 worth of Polymer80 products within two months. The ATF is assuming that the man in question is selling the guns on the black market.
The ATF Warrant also points to a couple of kits that the agency determined someone shipped overseas. According to the agency, shipping the 80% frame overseas is a violation of “The Arms Export Control Act.” ATF Special Agent Tolliver Hart said that he used his experience to determine that international arms traffickers use the internet to acquire firearms and firearm parts. The ATF used these two cases to justify the raid further.
ATF Warrant to Raid Polymer 80 12-2020
Another justification the ATF gave for the raid is that 18-year old adults have purchased products from Polymer80. It is not illegal in most states for an 18-year-old to buy a pistol. The ATF artificially raises the age to buy a pistol by demanding a gun shop customer be 21 to buy a handgun.
The ATF claims that Polymer80 posted a video to its Instagram account showing someone stating that you don’t have to go through a background check to buy an 80% frame. This statement was and still is true. By law, 80% frames are chunks of plastic still, not handguns.
It seems like the ATF wants Polymer80 to market its frames as firearms, which could muddy the waters even further.
Also, in the affidavit, it is mentioned that in 2018 that Polymer submitted the kit to the ATF that included the jig, locking block, and drill bits for approval. The ATF appears to have approved that kit, but for some reason, believes that the inclusion of a lower parts kit somehow changes the property of the product, making it a firearm. If the company didn’t include the lower parts kit in the package, then it appears that the ATF would have had to produce another reason to raid the company.
The document does confirm that Polymer80 did go above and beyond its legal responsibility by asking customer 4473 “like” questions before allowing them to check out.
If a customer did not check the box, they would not be able to purchase products from Polymer80. California and the federal government have a history of believing that criminals obey signs and warnings, so this should reassure them that the company was doing everything in their power to prevent the 80% frames from falling into the wrong hands.
The documents show that the ATF case against Polymer80 was built on circumstantial evidence. Many believe the real reason for the raid was to get more customer information. In our opinion Polymer 80 and their customer’s got ratted-out to ATF by Stamps.com and Authorize.net. Let this be a lesson to the firearms industry be careful who you do business with.
About John Crump
John is a NRA instructor and a constitutional activist. John has written about firearms, interviewed people of all walks of life, and on the Constitution. John lives in Northern Virginia with his wife and sons and can be followed on Twitter at @crumpyss, or at www.crumpy.com.
I have figured for years that we no longer have protection under the 4th amendment for our privacy. The minute someone buys a red dot sight, a stock, a case of ammo, a scope or any other firearm related purchase over the internet, there is a paper trail that shows that you are the owner of, for instance a 9mm if you purchased a 9mm barrel or a case of 9mm ammo. It STINKS. THEY have no business in our business. PERIOD. But in the meanwhile a data base of firearms owners is being put together. One person I know… Read more »
Time to start identifying the local offices these guys use, and photo the agents working there. Could come in handy..
The location of the OKC offices of the FBI and ATF are not secrets. As I have told others the “problem” is not very likely to rear its head here, at least not at first. Expect the best and prepare for the worst.
Good spot, wings level, cleared hot. ATF will delve in to definitions to entrap the unsuspecting. In this case they have determined that the collections of parts are complete and only require assembly. Now, you may eventually win this battle in court. But it is going to cost you 8 years of legal battles up to the USSC and a quarter of a million dollars. The gummint knows that. That is how they win. Bottom line, GCA 1968 and 1936 unconstitutional. Uninfringed.
Thank the very unpatriotic patriot act!
I think you mean multi millions to pursue a suit like that. It may have been a quarter million 30 years ago. It’s something we as gun owners need to work with gun rights organizations, and manufacturers of firearms accessories need to work together to take back our rights, and we must in the process get the “patriot” act repealed!
The laws don’t apply to them!!!
We are no longer the land of the free. It’s the land of the snitch.
Not true aobut Hitler. Not everything he did was legal.. and HE and everyone else knew it. When he prposed invading Poland, many of his top officers spoke against it. His response was “yes, its wrong, yes it is agsint law, yes we will do it, and NO ONE WIL LIFT A FINGER AGAINST US. They invaded, and he was proven correct. Same scenario plaed out for every other contry he invaded. EVERY ONE o fhs is officers KNEW it was wrong, but Hitler knew no one would stop them. Is Hitler now in charge of our BATF? Back during… Read more »
When a company gets a subpoena, it’s not snitching. Not that I agree with the ATF.
One point never mentioned in this article is HOW did the feds get a subpoena for the customer records in the first place. Clearly the intention was to find buyers who were prohibited persons. Which they then used to justify raiding Poly80. But all of that rests on their claim that the product was a firearm not merely a ‘hunk of plastic’ — there has to be “probable cause” to believe a crime has been committed before law enforcement is supposed to be allowed to get a subpoena, otherwise it is just a fishing expedition. The information or material subpoenaed… Read more »
BATF have their working lists of dishonest federal operatives who frequently wear black nighties. Been known for a long time.
NOW that BATF have names of people they think should not have gotten them, why don’t they go after each individual? The ones that resold, exported, etc? THEYare the lawbreakers….. or foind out and prove if any of them were assembled and resold as functioninf firerms to Prohibited Persons. THERE are the crimes, but BATF are set on destroying honest providers of goods and service who are functioning wihtin the existing (note I said EXISTING) laws.
The feds and local police found Polymer80 guns at crime scenes. They found enough that they created an affidavit that they presented to a judge. The judge issued a warrant. Subpoenas were used to bolster the case. Prohibited end users were located, including the criminals already apprehended, that it supported the warrant. This was done legally and by the book.
Now they can work on illegally purchased Hi Points used in many dozens of murders and they can prosecute the violent felons who sold them illegally. Nah, they’re not going to do that.
And what percentage of crime scene guns were unserialized, Don? You neglect a very pertinent fact.
Like a FISA warrant to spy on political opponents?
I’ve been expecting this ever since the inaccurate “ghost gun” stories, and Commiefornia’s faux outrage started circulating. This is only the beginning folks, it’s going to get a lot worse. With the illegitimate Election 2020 results, the ATF or more properly, Assholes Taking Firearms, is emboldened to arbitrarily and capriciously interpret the NFA and GCA’s anyway they damn well please.
The ” Take It Away and Then Make Them Fight For It” policy is here to stay, and under Lyin’ Biden and his Ho, it’s only going to get worse.
Beijing Biden will sign exec. order for an illegal firearms confiscation, illegal didn’t stop obama, and people will lay down and give up the last instrument of resistance possible. Start learning Mandarin chinese. They haven’t been building massive assault landing crafts for nothing. Good job demonrats, we now have a demented, racist criminal owned by china who will soon have the nuclear codes. We can only hope Trump does protect us from Biden/Harris, enemies both foreign and domestic.
I’ve been told by a reliable source that figures on “ghost guns” confiscated include not just finished firearms sold as unfinished kits, but perfectly vanilla commercial firearms with their serial numbers ground off — which latter comprise the overwhelming majority of the guns confiscated. If so, this is yet another case where a particular type of gun is being deliberately publicized as a “grave threat” due to statistics that aren’t even relevant to it.
In our opinion Polymer 80 and their customer’s got ratted-out to ATF by Stamps.com and Authorize.net. Not so sure these companies “ratted out”. IF they had gone to BATF of their own accord and provided the information, certainly so. But the text indicates BATF served these two companies with subpoenae, thus putting them under the gun to come forward with the lists. Since these kits, bits, tolos, information, were not, at the times of these ransactions, classed as “ferearms” under the laws, BATF have a big problem: they are taking an action legal in the past and attempting to make… Read more »
Video: “Rogue field offices”
One guy needs to make one phone call and this whole thing is over.
I’m waiting to read about the apprehension of a felon for robbery, assault, murder, etc. who was armed with a self-constructed firearm. In New York the judge will still return him to the street with little or no bail.
It doesn’t matter what they use. By stating the above, you support their argument whenever someone does use a self-constructed firearm in the commission of a crime (which they have). Violent criminals are the problem, not inanimate objects. Violent criminals almost always are repeat offenders – many habitually. LEOs (government employees) should arrest violent criminals and do a really good job of providing prosecutors (government employees) evidence. Prosecutors should convict violent criminals. Judges (government employees) should give long sentences to violent criminals. Members of parole boards (government employees or at least appointed by government employees) should not grant paroles except… Read more »
yes and when we see honest citizens arrested for brandishing weapons to ward off mobs running amuck instead of the CRIMINAL trespassers, the future is looking to be a Biden dark dark winter.
The future’s uncertain and the end is always near.
Forget apprehending more, Orange County, Calif., Sheriff Don Barnes pushed back against an “absurd” order from a local Superior Court judge ordering the release of 1,800 inmates, including some who are locked up for murder and child molestation, due to the coronavirus.easing murderers with the restr of the jail population. LA’s jails have
Hi, the sorry excuse for a human being who ambushed two LA Sheriff Deputies used a ‘Ghost Gun’, aka a non serialized gun.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/suspect-arrested-ambush-shooting-la-sheriffs-deputies/story?id=73344768
Hey James… Just so you know, I dont think the result would have been any different if they ambushed those deputies with a serialized gun either. Stolen guns that may have been home built dont lose effectiveness either just because it wasnt handmade by the person using it after it was stolen…..
While Wass made his comment without thinking it through, please be mindful that you dont give the anti’s ammunition when you post yours.
@wjd Yes, it is me, and yes I am ok… Just very, very, very tired. I’ve been working like a mad man since spring. I got put onto a rotating swing shift with over time when everyone else was getting their stay at home orders. One day I would work first, the next second, back to the first again. That continued until starting the first week of august I got put onto 12 hour shifts and its been that non stop since then, with no signs of slowing down since we have lost 9 employees and only managed to hire… Read more »
Thanks. There are a few old timers here I still kept praying for.
I’m a bit younger and a bit harder to get rid of.
Bill was on a post a day or 2 or 3. He is doing better now after a dealing with covid 19.
Police have arrested killers and assault suspects with the Polymer80 guns.
“Shall not be infringed” How is the ATF abusing the US Constitution and getting away with it? When a person becomes an adult at 18: they can own any gun. These under 21 laws are absurd and in most cases completely unconstitutional. Article VI does not give States or locales permission to regulate any arms, it actually guarantees that arms are not touched by government.
“How is the ATF abusing the US Constitution and getting away with it?”
Because their boss (a Republican) is letting them and the Republican Representatives and Senators we elected aren’t saying shit about it.
same way the demonrats did in the 2020 election. obama appointed judges making unconstitutional illegall rulings which have ALL gone ignored by officials all the way to 7/9 of the BACKSTABBING BASTARDS in scotus. Video showing workers stuffing voting machines-wired to the internet illegally- and witnesses that say “those are lies”. How is a video a lie? We have been screwed by the left, china, and its going to get worse.
I was quoting Core who was asking the question about how the ATF was getting away with abuse.
My answer was the Republican controlled executive branch was allowing them to get away with it and no Republican Representatives or Senators were speaking up.
How are Obama appointed judges and voter fraud relevant to Core’s question?
I denounced Bill Barr when he was nominated, and tried to warn everyone he was a wolf in sheeps clothing. Anyone notice he didnt release the report yet that was promised way back in August?
More to the point of Core’s statement, just where in the US Constitution does it say anything about only having rights once you turn 18?…….. Hmmmm……
???
Can you explain how the “fbi” ran the names through a NICS file system which LEGALLY IS FORBIDEN TO EXIST!!!! If I remember correctly, all identifying information MUST be DESTROYED after a very short time period.
The NCIC system and NOT the NICS system! Reading comprehension is essential!
More.
“The National Crime Information Center, or NCIC, has been called the lifeline of law enforcement. It’s an electronic clearinghouse of crime data available to virtually every criminal justice agency nationwide.”
Names and adresses of known criminals, make, model, and serial number (if known) of items reported stolen or lost which can include cars, boats electronics and of course guns.
Right. NICS only tracks name, date, some sort of government ID (usually DL) and what type of firearm (handgun or long gun) the background check is being run for. The 4473 on file is the only thing that ties the serial number to the individual.
You can be damn sure that ATF “auditors” are scanning or copying 4473s for some pencil pusher in DC to enter into that illegal gun registry database.
Couple years back I read of an FFL who had a visit from his local “inspector” from BATF. He asked to see the Bound Book. Fine.. set the dweebup in a corner where he coild “see” that book. Owner caught the BATF dweeb running a hand scanner over the pabes to record everything. He blew hsi top, made the guy delete the files, kicked him put of the store and told him to never come back Amazingly enough, dweeb, after peeing hsi pants, sklulked out the door and that was the end of it. (t e bit about his britches… Read more »
can’t run a mane through NICS unless the subject is attempting to purchase a FIREARM. Since these boxes of pieces were not classified as :firearms” at the time of their purchase, n NICS checks would be legal, not even for FBI.
According to the agency, shipping the 80% frame overseas is a violation of “The Arms Export Control Act.”. How can something which has been determined to not be a firearm by the BATFE then be determined to be a firearm when exported???? This makes ZERO sense! A long time ago I read an interesting; but very long book titled “Unintended Consequences” by John Ross!
A lot of things are export controlled, including parts and technologies. This has nothing to do with the definition of a firearm by BAFTE, but with the potential application of the exported item. For example, firearm lasers are export controlled, so is encryption software, night and thermal vision, level IV body armor, etc.. In general, one should consult legal advice when exporting ANYTHING. Export licenses are often required. Oh and it gets better, there is something called “deemed export”. This happens when an export controlled item or technology is given to a foreign national within US jurisdiction, such as on… Read more »
BREAKING: President Trump’s DOJ seeks to make braced pistols NFA items! Go over to Military Arms Channel’s YouTube channel and watch his latest live stream on that. Remember when we discussed President Trump’s bump stock ban and many argued that it opens the door for more of this? We told you so! It’s now happening!