Federal Awarded 5.56mm NATO Service and Training Ammunition Contract

Federal Awarded 5.56mm NATO Service and Training Ammunition Contract, iStock-1284461061
Federal Awarded 5.56mm NATO Service and Training Ammunition Contract, iStock-1284461061

U.S.A.-(AmmoLand.com)- The Department of Justice (DOJ) – Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has selected Vista Outdoor’s Federal Ammunition brand as the primary awardee for their 5.56mm NATO Service and Training, Reduced-Lead Ammunition. This multiple-award, Indefinite Delivery, Indefinite Quantity contract is for an ordering period totaling five years with product delivery beginning in April of 2021.

“Federal continues to be honored that the most trusted law enforcement agencies both domestically and internationally continue to believe and value the products we make,” said Federal’s President Jason Vanderbrink. “It’s a solid validation of the technology and performance found in every round of ammunition made by our highly skilled American workforce.”

The FBI is the federal government’s principal agency responsible for investigating violations of more than 260 Federal statutes. For this award, they selected a service round utilizing Federal Ammunition’s tactical bonded technology. The Tactical Bonded line is a trusted partner for some of the most intense conditions. Made exclusively for law enforcement, it achieves reliability, terminal performance, and accuracy paramount to the survival of special agents and others in the face of violent confrontation.

“This is a very prestigious award and substantiates Federal’s reputation as the manufacturer of the market’s most advanced rifle ammunition. From service to training, Federal offers the best rifle rounds for supporting the specified mission,” said David Leis, Federal’s VP of Law Enforcement, Government and International Sales. “The training round selected is designed with one of the most accurate bullets in the market. The cartridge is configured to replicate duty performance, so agents’ training experiences are authentic to their duty expectations.”


About Federal Premium

Federal ammunition can be found at dealers nationwide or purchased online direct from Federal. For more information on all products from Federal or to shop online, visit www.federalpremium.com.

Federal Ammunition Logo

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JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
9 months ago

2/20/21 update If someone analyzes the financial statements of Vista Outdoor, reads the footnotes, reads their Risk Factors, reads their Management, Discussion, and Analysis, reads their Forward Looking Statements, listens to their prepared remarks during their earnings call, and listens to the questions from investors (and management’s answers) at the end of the earnings call, they might come to these conclusions: The FBI contract is probably more a PR win than a huge increase in sales. The company views the contract as a testimony to their product development capabilities. Shipments to the FBI probably won’t start until after March of 2021 (so… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago

Vista Outdoor filed their 10-Q for the quarter ended 12/27/20.

The disclosure for the ammo only product category showed revenues for the current quarter of 287,855,000, which was an increase of 42.3% over the same quarter in 2019. It was a sequential increase of 5.7% over the quarter ended 9/27/20.

In the nine months ended 12/27/20, no single customer contributed 10% or more of revenues.

For the nine months ended 12/29/19, Walmart represented 14% of their revenues.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago

Vista Outdoor press release on their financial results for the quarter ended 12/27/20:

Revenues in their Shooting Sports segment (includes ammo and other items) increased 41% over the same quarter last year. Reason for the growth was strong consumer demand (not government sales).

http://news.vistaoutdoor.com/2021-02-04-Vista-Outdoor-Announces-Record-FY21-Third-Quarter-Operating-Results

They have not filed their 10Q yet, so information on just their ammo revenue is not available.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago

For those interested in learning about the current and forecasted business of Vista Outdoor (which produces the following ammo brands: Federal, CCI, Speer, Blazer, Estate, Remington), their quarterly earnings call is tomorrow: https://investors.vistaoutdoor.com/event-calendar/default.aspx Results for the past quarter are typically discussed in comparison to the same quarter of the prior year. Their ammo revenue increased 29.5% for the quarter ended 9/30/20 as compared to the same quarter in 2019. In their SEC filing they did not break down how much of that was due to volume, price, and mix. Tomorrow they will be discussing the results for the quarter ended… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago

Duncan,

You knew this article was going to feed into the conspiracy theories of every nut job on the board.

What was the date of the request for quote? I’m going to guess it was during the Trump administration.

What was the date of the contract award?

How many rounds were in the contract?

How many rounds are scheduled for delivery in 2021?

How many rounds of 5.56mm does Federal expect to manufacture in 2021?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC
RoyD
RoyD(@royd)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Some will try to make this “nothing burger” into a steak. Doesn’t make it so. I had to chuckle a little about the promotion of the attributes of the “Tactical Bonded” bullets. They do nothing better than a number of other bullets available to the general public. LOL!

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  RoyD

Looks like business as usual to me.

Finnky
Finnky(@finnks)
10 months ago

Companies base investment into production capacity on expectedly demand. Government contracts provide stead you guaranteed and lucrative demand – setting a baseline steady state production capacity. Factories designed for that steady production rate can also be run harder, deferring maintenance, putting on more shifts, etc. Thus we can thank governmental contracts for availability of production capacity being used to meet some of the current nongovernmental demand. Sucks for government to buy out existing production – but such contracts can also be used to obtain loans to expand capacity. In the end, what matters is what is availabl3 to us and… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  Finnky

STFU with that logic!

I want my ammo and I want it now! Those GREEDY bastards!!!! And here you are with all your FANCY LAWYER words trying to DEFEND them. You must be a COMMIE or one of them ELITES!!!!!!!!!!! If only we had PATRIOTS running those companies who understood WE THE PEOPLE need ammo!!!!!!!

Finnky
Finnky(@finnks)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Sorry, had not read carefully enough. “Indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity“ negates everything in my post. Delivery starting in April means they cannot boost production while indefinite quantity means contract is practically useless for raising capital. So basically instead of bumping capacity they will simply redirect production to these contracts.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  Finnky

Your post made sense – the government contracts probably are fairly steady. The non-government business undoubtedly fluctuates wildly. Their footnote disclosure on large customer sales is for the total company, not by reporting segment. Even the shooting sports reporting segment includes some non-ammo product categories. They do indicate that only one customer (Walmart) accounted for more than 10% of overall company sales for the 3-1/2 years through September 2020. In the 12 month period ended March 2020 (they have a 3/31 year-end), the top ten customers accounted for about 40% of their total sales. In their Risk Factors disclosures they… Read more »

Russn8r
Russn8r(@russn8r)
4 months ago
Reply to  Finnky

“Companies invest in production capacity based on expected demand.” That’s true IF expected demand includes some provision for continued occasional unexpected demand spikes due to politically-driven panic buying, e.g. the last 1.5 yrs & under Resident Hussein. A manufacturer with excess capacity can quickly ramp up, exploit demand spikes & make BIG dollars while the rest are holding their d**ks. Too tempting. Investing in some “excess” capacity is a profit maximizing strategy. Same for investors or companies that lay in “extra” stock during low-price times & sell during high-price times, thus moderating the high prices — a benefit to civilians.… Read more »

Last edited 4 months ago by Russn8r
StLPro2A
StLPro2A(@stlpro2a)
10 months ago

Reticle black contrasts nicely with UN Blue……

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  StLPro2A

Hard to tell who is joking.

Is the UN who you think is coming to shoot your dog, scream obscenities at your wife and children, handcuff you, tear your home apart, and take your legally purchased firearms with which you did nothing wrong?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

I’m not the least bit concerned about the UN, Antifa, BLM, crazy cat ladies with pink hair, Robert Francis, Chuck, Nancy, or Joe.

Look at who posed for pictures in the ashes of families and their homes, who killed a woman and child over nothing they did not create themselves, who lied about all that while they did it and ever since, who conspired with the media, who received equipment, consumables, training, and advice from the military, and who received protection from Republican and Democrat Attorney Generals.

Stag
Stag(@eriggle83)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

People are still stuck on this foreign enemy mentality and it’s preventing them from seeing that the real enemies are very much domestic. The real enemy may be your neighbor. The real enemy works for one of the many unconstitutional alphabet agencies. The state, county, and local law enforcement agencies. The troops occupying D.C. at this very moment. These are the people who have historically been used to oppress the citizenry, to take guns, to enforce every arms law we currently have on the books and if you think they’ll stop at the next gun law enacted or the next… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  Stag

A portion of the military/ex-military and ex-LE are so invested in the institution (in many cases it defines who they are), they just can’t recognize that their successors are the problem. I don’t understand how they can ignore the history, ignore what government employees are saying now, and ignore what government employees are not saying now. In the past the enforcement actions were against people who had been marginalized. Even with the media in their pocket, it’s going to be hard to demonize the local dentist. LEOs lost the PR war in 2020. People are not inclined to believe them… Read more »

Russn8r
Russn8r(@russn8r)
4 months ago
Reply to  Stag

Too much self-delusion on the Republican side.

“America is the greatest country on earth.”
“America always pulls out of any problem.”
“Back The Blue” (whatever they do).
“It can’t happen here.”
“When the SHTF” (as if everyone will get a memo).

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

That’s why the red flag laws are so insidious.

Doesn’t excuse the people doing the damage.

USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt(@gregoryromeu)
10 months ago

No, it’s makes a bunch of blue helmets turning purple.

USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt(@gregoryromeu)
10 months ago

Ok, how about we do a 80/20 supply line there, Federal? 80% to WE, THE PEOPLE and 20% to those WE THE PEOPLE HIRE TO “WORK FOR US”?

Last edited 10 months ago by USMC0351Grunt
JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  USMC0351Grunt

USMC0351Grunt,

Did you conclude that more than 20% of Federal ammunition is going to the government?

American Patriot
American Patriot(@american-patriot)
10 months ago

Yeap….Keep the ammo in the hands of the Feds & make sure the American people are unable to procure it!

Scotty Gunn
Scotty Gunn(@scotty-gunn)
10 months ago

Exactly right, Obama did this little trick to keep the markets dried up, too.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago

Nope.

KDude
KDude(@kdude)
10 months ago

Maybe government doesn’t have business buying all that ammunition. Not without supplying a lawful Constitutional militia in every county in every state in the Union first. That means you and me. a regular shipment, bought and paid for with all our tax dollars, used for training, and enforcement of our laws that bind government in their actions and spending. As well as putting down insurrections, and invasions. This was never the constitutional duty of the FBI, or even a standing army. Clearly neither is getting the job done satisfactorily now. It’s time to make our Constitution real again. Now there’s… Read more »

KDude
KDude(@kdude)
10 months ago
Reply to  KDude

No. I have not. I live by my own means. I do not send in taxes. I get no taxes back. No social security. No medical. Nothing. State or federal. I live off the grid in the middle of a great metropolis. I owe the governments nothing. When they provide for a lawful militia again, I’ll acknowledge the limited authority enumerated to them, within our US Constitution. Otherwise, they’re a bunch of gangsters. I don’t need em for ammunition, or firearms. But it would be nice.

USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt(@gregoryromeu)
10 months ago
Reply to  KDude

The Constitution, THE PEOPLE’S BINDING CONTRACT!

Country Boy
Country Boy(@country-boy)
10 months ago

what the hell does the FBI need ammo for? They never arrest the REAL criminals anyway..seen Hillary, Pelosi,Shumer, Biden, George Soros arrested yet?…oh, I forgot, the FBI got a new agenda under Biden Admin…arrest We The People AKA to FBI as “Domestic Terrorists”. and “insurrectionists” for not being stupid enough to go along with the frauded election in 2020

Thanks Federal Ammo…how ’bout stocking the stores FIRST?

Cruiser
Cruiser(@cop1771)
10 months ago

The “Blue helmets” are the real enemy of the Constitution, and they will come. Be vigilant, and arm up. No one will protect you, but you.

Last edited 10 months ago by Cruiser
RoyD
RoyD(@royd)
10 months ago
Reply to  Cruiser

Years ago some used to talk about having a “Blueberry gun.” I still have mine.

JPM
JPM(@jpm)
10 months ago
Reply to  Cruiser

ANY helmet of ANY color or shape that is worn by ANYONE who is attempting to enforce unconstitutional laws or regulations is the real enemy of the Constitution, America and citizens.

nod
nod(@nod)
10 months ago

I read in the NRA magazine a couple of months ago where the government had contracts now with Speer, Federal, Winchester, and Sig. Just like 2012 (?) when the government was buying up all the ammunition. Sucks.

RoyD
RoyD(@royd)
10 months ago
Reply to  nod

Well pray tell just whom they can/should get their ammunition supplies from? You might say, Lake City. Guess who runs Lake City these days; that’s right, Winchester. It is what it is and like many things in life you learn to deal with it. I guess they could get it from the Russians or the Chinese. Would that suit you better?

JoeUSooner
JoeUSooner(@joeusooner)
10 months ago
Reply to  RoyD

I think the point Nod’s trying to make is that the federal government is buying far more ammo than they actually need, in order to keep inventory out of citizens’ hands. I don’t think anyone objects to the government “buying American” – just that they should buy exactly what they actually need (for training, normal operations, etc).

Last edited 10 months ago by JoeUSooner
JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  JoeUSooner

JoeUSooner,

In the big ammo conspiracy thread someone presented that idea. I pulled up the company’s publicly available financial statements and referenced the footnote disclosure indicating their largest customer has been Walmart, for at least the last 3 1/2 years (and all other customers were each smaller than 10% of their total revenues).

The issue is just supply and demand.

Scotty Gunn
Scotty Gunn(@scotty-gunn)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

However, Walmart does not sell the military calibers anymore, just hunting ammo.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  Scotty Gunn

I was looking at the filings as of October 2020, I think, and the 3 1/2 years prior. Walmart may slip below 10% of their revenues from then on, I don’t know.

The scarcity and increase in price was was well underway by then and they had no other large customers (more than 10% of revenue).

The increase in commercial demand is huge and the ammo makers just can’t keep up.

RichV
RichV(@rich56)
10 months ago
Reply to  Scotty Gunn

So is 30-06 military or hunting? My Walmart doesn’t have anything so..

USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt(@gregoryromeu)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

…and Walmart stopped selling ammo, so WHERE is all of THAT ammo going?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  USMC0351Grunt

iT’s ALL oN trUCks driVING aRounD and AroUND. PERIOD.

RoyD
RoyD(@royd)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

LOL! Very good.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  RoyD

I think I’ve been fairly patient.

RoyD
RoyD(@royd)
10 months ago
Reply to  JoeUSooner

I remember a thread back in the Obama years where people were writing what you wrote in your first sentence. It was shown to be an inaccurate depiction of reality. Yes there were “contracts” for large amounts of ammo but the total amount received were around half of those amounts. I forget the reason the “contracts” were written that way but it looked a lot worse than it actually was. So, stir that into the mix.

Country Boy
Country Boy(@country-boy)
10 months ago
Reply to  RoyD

remember your own words when Biden’s government is shooting at you with it.

RoyD
RoyD(@royd)
10 months ago
Reply to  Country Boy

If someone chooses to shoot at me the last thing I am going to be concerned with is who it is.

USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt(@gregoryromeu)
10 months ago
Reply to  nod

Actually, we were trained in the Marine Corps to pick our extra ammo and weapons up off the ground after our “threat” drops it?

Last edited 10 months ago by USMC0351Grunt
JoeUSooner
JoeUSooner(@joeusooner)
10 months ago
Reply to  USMC0351Grunt

The Army taught us lowly “ground pounders” to do the same thing!

JNew
JNew(@j_new)
10 months ago

“product delivery beginning in April of 2021?” Are they aware of the ammo shortage?!

swmft
swmft
10 months ago

soon only old school reloaders will have ammo oh and the goverment gun control is here they will start outlawing making your own primers and powder even though it is relatively simple ,dangerous but simple

RoyD
RoyD(@royd)
10 months ago
Reply to  swmft

I resemble that remark. And it is not “dangerous.” In fact I went out yesterday and bought “supplies to make” 8000 primers. Will most likely never get used but I have it in any case. And yes I have “made” several hundred primers in the past and have proven this method through live fire and shelf life longevity tests.

USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt(@gregoryromeu)
10 months ago
Reply to  RoyD

Send me a sample of oh, say about a thousand for Quality Assurance testing purposes?

Knute
Knute
10 months ago
Reply to  RoyD

I’ve even reloaded .22RF, just to prove it can be done. Let me be the first one to announce: It ain’t worth the effort. Unless rimfire ammo ceases to be available, for whatever reason. Then, with intense effort, it CAN be done. 🙂

RoyD
RoyD(@royd)
10 months ago
Reply to  Knute

I never messed with trying to “reprime” .22LR. What I have done though is convert them to “semi fixed” ammo. Pulling the bullet and working up a charge with another powder and then breech seating a .223/.224″ jacketed bullet that has had it front section reduced in diameter so that it was a “bore riding” diameter. Excellent accuracy and very good velocity. Velocity on par with 22 Mag velocities for the same bullet weight. That is the short version, of course it is a little more involved than that.

Knute
Knute
10 months ago
Reply to  RoyD

The most time consuming part is using a hook tool to straighten out the primer dent and getting the compound equally into that little groove all the way around so as to not get misfires. Working up a load and casting bullets for it is a cinch.

Russn8r
Russn8r(@russn8r)
4 months ago
Reply to  Knute

Link to compounds, recipe? Thanks

Arny
Arny(@dmaxter)
4 months ago
Reply to  Russn8r

I posted a youtube video for you that used PRIMEALL (HINT). Needless to say awaiting approval. I don’t look for it to be approved on this article either

Russn8r
Russn8r(@russn8r)
4 months ago
Reply to  Arny

Thanks!

JoeUSooner
JoeUSooner(@joeusooner)
10 months ago
Reply to  RoyD

Roy, I’ve “re-manufactured” used primers before (using a slurry of alcohol-drenched match heads, and re-using the old three-bladed internal plate), and they worked just fine. Haven’t used a shelf-longevity test, though.

But I’ve never made primers from scratch, using new materials. Would love to know how you have done it, and where you obtained the raw material… can you contact me in a private message? I’d love to talk to you. Thanks

RoyD
RoyD(@royd)
10 months ago
Reply to  JoeUSooner

Apparently you misunderstood. I still use the fired primer to “make” a working primer. Pop out the anvil, flatten the firing pin indentation, slightly spread the anvil legs, insert two caps cut from capgun caps roll, reinsert anvil and seat, cut discs from breadbag and insert those discs into the primer pocket to bottom, fill prepped primer with firecracker powder, seat primer into primer pocket. This is a corrosive primer mix so proper cleaning after use or use in stainless firearms is reccommended. I have had these sit on a shelf in the garage for five years and still work… Read more »

Last edited 10 months ago by RoyD
JoeUSooner
JoeUSooner(@joeusooner)
10 months ago
Reply to  RoyD

Thank you! Creative use of firecrackers LOL I’ll try that (it certainly sounds easier than preparing that “slurry” from the heads of strike-anywhere matches).

Russn8r
Russn8r(@russn8r)
4 months ago
Reply to  RoyD

If you can get firecrackers.

Russn8r
Russn8r(@russn8r)
4 months ago
Reply to  RoyD

Do you have a link to how to make your own primers?

Arny
Arny(@dmaxter)
4 months ago
Reply to  Russn8r

Ronnie
Ronnie(@obnor77)
10 months ago

GREAT !!! Now We Will NEVER GET AMMO IN THE STORES !!!!! WTF !

JDT
JDT(@jdt)
10 months ago

Will they be charged the current inflated prices? I’m down to rebuilding primers over here!!!

Ronnie
Ronnie(@obnor77)
10 months ago
Reply to  JDT

Im headed that way also !

Ansel Hazen
Ansel Hazen(@ansel-hazen)
10 months ago

No ammo manufacturer in their right mind should be selling to the government at this point.

Superman
Superman(@clark-kent)
10 months ago
Reply to  Ansel Hazen

Why not?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  Superman

When you were a LEO, what order would you not have followed?

nrringlee
nrringlee(@nrringlee)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Simple. Unlawful orders. No service member or law enforcement officer is required to obey or carry out unlawful orders. A case in point is firearms seizures during Katrina. Mass violations of search and seizure happened against predominantly black people living in poorer wards of New Orleans. This was done by a combination of what little remained of local law enforcement and out of state personnel sent in to assume the duties of the dysfunctional NO PD. Many officers of good conscience refused these unlawful orders and were later vindicated in court.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  nrringlee

Were you/are you a LEO?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  nrringlee

It’s not so simple and that is the reason for my question. At some point, it comes down to the government employee wearing the uniform and armed with a gun to decide what is lawful. If there was a law requiring the registration of AR15s and LEOs were ordered to arrest someone for not registering an AR15, should they do it?

N/A
N/A(@don-bailey)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

, — LEO’s are given a latitude of discretion in certain circumstances. Of course, the quality of their LE hierarchy, can, and will, hold that officer accountable for their actions. In addition, just like in the military, LEO’s are required to carry out legal and lawful orders. That latitude of discretion, can becomes a predicament for all involved.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  N/A

I know. What is legal?

If there was a law banning the possession of AR15s and LEOS were ordered to arrest someone for having an AR15, should they do it?

USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt(@gregoryromeu)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

2nd Amendment. Any further questions?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  N/A

N/A,

I’m not asking what you would do personally, but if there was a law banning the possession of AR15s, do you think LEOs should follow an order to arrest someone for having one?

If it’s more comfortable to answer a slightly different question, do you think most LEOs would follow such an order?

Last edited 10 months ago by JSNMGC
USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt(@gregoryromeu)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

It is an unconstitutional order, therefore VOID. Even though the LEO / Military personnel may not understand that, (Which is BS because they are SWORN to understand this) YOU have to make a moral choice. Educate the dumbasses, or bend-over?

swmft
swmft
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

i worked dea not proud of it, came out with a never again mentality ,the users victims were treated worse in most cases than the dealers -criminals- during the McDuffee riots we were issued sub guns to protect confiscated drugs stored in warehouses in overtown

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  swmft

swmft, I appreciate the input – I really do.

You see where the line of questions leads. Are American government employees who wear a uniform and carry a gun better than those who worked for Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, the Kim family, Maduro, etc.? I hope so.

Is a legal order one that is based on a law?

Country Boy
Country Boy(@country-boy)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

IME on “the receiving end” some are/some ain’t.
Have seen a uniformed sherrif pull a big sack of cocaine, look aound to make sure no one was looking, slid it across the bar floor, hit the wall, then he ran over and charged the people standing there with it. He didn’t see me watching from behind. This during a bar raid.Because they didn’t like bikers.

USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt(@gregoryromeu)
10 months ago
Reply to  Country Boy

And you worked with the County Prosecutor or State Department in exposing this, right?

USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt(@gregoryromeu)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

“Is a legal order one that is based on law?” If it is a LEGAL order, then YES! It is BASED ON LAW!

Want to take a crack at asking this question in a different way?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  USMC0351Grunt

If there is a law and LEOs are ordered to enforce the law, then the order is legal?

Country Boy
Country Boy(@country-boy)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

no, because the constitution protects us via 2nd A. It would be an unconstitutional law , not to be upheld. But no officer would see it that way most likely.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  Country Boy

That was my point and I was interested to know if LEOs had a view on what the majority of people in their profession would do:
“a law is a law;” or
“that law is clearly unconstitutional and I don’t need a person in a black robe to tell me that.”

USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt(@gregoryromeu)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

MOST LEOS are intelligent. MOST LEOS would either refuse to obey or leave the force. Realize these LEOS are people too and put up with a LOT of crap from a LOT of stupid people, like the ones that do NOT follow their instruction/orders during a “stop” and end up getting shot. But LEOS do have families, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, etc., so in most cases they will follow their Oaths and the Constitutional.

Last edited 10 months ago by USMC0351Grunt
JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  USMC0351Grunt

USMC0351Grunt,

You stated that most LEOs are intelligent and would either refuse to obey orders or leave the force.

Would you say “most” is closer to 51% or 99%?

Of the LEOs who stay on the force, but refuse to follow orders to arrest the local dentist for possessing an AR15 that is not registered, how many of them will just stand there and watch their fellow LEOs follow orders to arrest the dentist?

Last edited 10 months ago by JSNMGC
USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt(@gregoryromeu)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Let’s put it THIS WAY… IF a LEO or Military person(s) were to come to your door to TRY to confiscate your firearms, (Provided you ARE a LAC), then it is YOUR DUTY to convince them otherwise, which may involve you using your weapon(s). Got that from some guys back in 1776.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  USMC0351Grunt

Was looking for input from LEOs.

IAACSIDSMA, but I’m squared away on my duty.

Ronnie
Ronnie(@obnor77)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

if I was Ordered to Confiscate a law Abiding Citizens Firearm – who DID NOT COMMIT A CRIME – This is ONE ORDER I WOULD NOT FOLLOW !!! 99% of orders are Legit

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  Ronnie

What percent of orders will be legit next year?

Country Boy
Country Boy(@country-boy)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

9%

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  Country Boy

🙂

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

I thought I remember him saying he was a retired LEO, but I might be wrong. If he is, he spent a lot of time around other LEOs. I would be interested to hear his opinion.

Not many LEOs will say how far they will go.

The conversation usually starts off with: “I will not follow unlawful orders.”

When asked about whether they will follow orders to enforce laws requiring registration of semiautomatic firearms, the response becomes equivocal.

When asked about whether they will follow orders to enforce laws banning the possession of semiautomatic firearms, the silence is deafening.

usaimages
usaimages(@usaimages)
10 months ago
Reply to  Superman

When they gave out stupid, you evidently got a heaping hat full!

Ronnie
Ronnie(@obnor77)
10 months ago
Reply to  Ansel Hazen

You Would think That OUR GOV. WOULD HAVE THEIR OWN MANUFACTURING PLANT ! — Have you Any Idea How Much Ammo they WASTE – TRAINING ? Millions Per Month !!!!!

JSNMGC
JSNMGC(@jsnmgc)
10 months ago
Reply to  Ronnie

Can you imagine, after the manufacturing plants are nationalized (take that you greedy bastards!), the cheering when the government announces their “fair” prices? Unfortunately, there won’t be any for sale to non-government employees. Oops.

pilot25
pilot25(@pilot25)
10 months ago

Great. Less ammo for the little guys. What a surprise.

RedBloodedAmerican
RedBloodedAmerican(@redbloodedamerican)
10 months ago
Reply to  pilot25

That’s why we reload! But yeah, the feds buy it so the citizen can’t! Just one step closer to their gun control agenda!

Superman
Superman(@clark-kent)
10 months ago

So law enforcement should not have any ammo? THINK before you post…

usaimages
usaimages(@usaimages)
10 months ago
Reply to  Superman

Same reply dipstick – When they gave out stupid, you evidently got a heaping hat full!

Ronnie
Ronnie(@obnor77)
10 months ago
Reply to  Superman

Come on really thats Not the question – IMO -I back the BLUE !! And YES THEY NEED AMMO -& so Do Us citizens — But all Ammo Manufacturers Have Contracts – And PRIORITIES

RedBloodedAmerican
RedBloodedAmerican(@redbloodedamerican)
10 months ago
Reply to  Superman

Actually Superman, I back the Blue and the Military, but thank you for your concern!

nrringlee
nrringlee(@nrringlee)
10 months ago

The reason NATO spec ammunition is so cheap is because the DoD and Law enforcement buy en masse. This drives down costs over the long run. That is why many of us standardized on 9mm and 45 ACP as well as .224 and .308 for the bulk of our ammo. Ye, I do reload and shoot a lot of other calibers but the bulk of my inventory is NATO standard for a reason. Supply and demand. Federal will do an over run on this production and this particular spec will hit the shelves at a discount. History is my guide.

Ronnie
Ronnie(@obnor77)
10 months ago
Reply to  nrringlee

WHEN ARE Ammo suppliers / sellers going to STOP PRICE GOUGING US CITIZENS !!!! ???????????????????????????????????????

BlueCat49
BlueCat49(@bluecat49)
10 months ago
Reply to  Ronnie

They are NOT price gouging. They are selling at the price where supply roughly equals demand.
The high prices signal to manufacturers to increase production.
Those prices will also incite those private citizens with extra ammo to sell that to fund their purchases of things they need.
And if there is ample supply in a neighboring state, then it will facilitate the movement of that supply to a place where there is a shortage.
That is how markets work.

Country Boy
Country Boy(@country-boy)
10 months ago
Reply to  BlueCat49

no they ARE price gouging when I can buy 2 boxes of .308 WIN and have $10.00 left over from what the price gouger sold one box for..

Country Boy
Country Boy(@country-boy)
10 months ago
Reply to  Ronnie

when you stop paying price gouging priced ammo from those sellers?

Country Boy
Country Boy(@country-boy)
10 months ago
Reply to  Ronnie

I ewent to newly found LGS. He had ammo made in georgia in .308 WIN for 48.99 per 20 rd box. I didn’t buy it. Went to another LGS and paid $19.99 for 20 rd of .308 WIN in Winchester white box (target ammo). Both were 147 gn. bullets . Big difference huh?

Country Boy
Country Boy(@country-boy)
10 months ago
Reply to  nrringlee

you and me both brother.