Minimal Barriers and Timing at the US Capitol, 6 January, 2021

Widely Spaced Capitol Police. Picture taken about 11:14 a.m. on 6 January, 2021. Courtesy Dean Weingarten

U.S.A.-(AmmoLand.com)- The barriers put up to keep the crowds of protestors away from the Capitol building on 6 January 2021, were minimal and easily overcome. They were primarily psychological. An ordinary 10-year-old child could push their way through them, with minimal effort.

Physical barriers must be backed up by manpower if they are to be effective. This is especially true for such minimalist barriers as were placed between the massive crowds which came to the Capitol on 6 January 2021.

In the photograph, there are three widely spaced Capitol police officers in the broad grounds between the Ulysses S. Grant Memorial and the Capitol. The distance between the two is about 250 yards.

It is a significant distance. Being at the Ulysses S. Grant Memorial does not feel as if you are at the Capitol. You are hundreds of yards away from the Capitol building.

11:20 a.m. 6 January 2021, south end of the west side of the Capitol grounds Courtesy Dean Weingarten

The first barrier encountered consisted of a line of the freestanding metal fencing pictured above. It is about three feet tall. Most of the individual sections were not connected with each other. A section can easily be lifted with one hand.

Second barrier showing signs and green plastic mesh fencing. 11:15 a.m. 6 January 2021, courtesy Dean Weingarten

Another view of the Capitol from the West, before crowds of protestors, began to arrive. Notice the two Capitol Police on the grounds. The signs saying AREA CLOSED are attached to the second barrier encountered.

The second barrier consisted of green plastic mesh, attached to steel fence posts with what appeared to be plastic ties.

A few pounds of pressure on the mesh would detach the mesh from the posts and defeat the barrier. There were several of this plastic mesh on steel posts barriers. Once the inhibition of pushing them down was overcome, there were ineffective.

Closeup of the sign, mesh, and tie on a steel fence post. Courtesy Dean Weingarten

At 12:30, most of the protestors at the Capitol were on the east side. By 12:45, protestors coming down the mall and Pennsylvania avenue began to accumulate between the barriers and the Ulysses S. Grant Monument. The Monument had the steel stand-alone barriers surrounding it. The monument has a footprint of about 70 feet by 250 feet. Protestors jostled/moved the steel stand-alone fencing a foot or two, leaving gaps. This destroyed the psychological impact of this barrier. Protestors moved freely in and out of the Ulysses S. Grant Monument.

A significant psychological barrier had been breached. More and more protestors joined the people at the barriers. There seemed an inexhaustible supply of protestors coming from the Ellipse area, down the mall and Pennsylvania Avenue. Hundreds of thousands were coming from the rally at the Ellipse.

12:51 p.m. 6 January, 2021Barrier outside of Ulysses S. Grant memorial, about 250 yards to the Capitol. President Trump is still speaking.

About five minutes later, I heard a shout and saw a person had gone past the plastic mesh barrier on the north part of the west side of the Capitol grounds. He shouted encouragement. He was followed by a couple of dozen others.

The psychological breach of the flimsy barriers was similar to an earthen dam being breached. The trickle of people became a flow. The flow became a flood.

Tens, then hundreds, then thousands flowed toward the west side of the Capitol.

Mass penetration of flimsy barriers at the Capitol’s west side, 12:56:13 p.m, 6 January, 2021.

This picture is from early in the process. You can see how ineffectual the plastic mesh was.

The flow increases crossing the mesh barrier. Courtesy Dean Weingarten 6 Jan 2021

This picture was taken three seconds later. The flow of people is increasing.

Mass of people pushing forward across the green mesh fence, near the Grant Memorial, moving toward the Capitol. 6 January, 2021

12:56:31, 18 seconds later. The pressure of the mass of people is turning into a flood moving toward the Capitol. Only a tiny fraction of the hundreds of thousands coming from the Ellipse have reached the barriers at this time.

The flow toward the Capitol increases. This is about 12:56:31, Jan 6, 2021

That small fraction is still hundreds of people, rapidly becoming thousands of people. This picture is five seconds later. The first protestors have not yet reached the Capitol or the scaffolding.

Protestors approach west side of the Capitol at the north end. Courtesy Dean Weingarten

This picture was taken about a minute and a half after the plastic mesh barriers were pushed through. The protestors are getting close to the Capitol but have not reached the scaffolding, which can be seen on the upper right.

Notice the section of stand-alone fencing on the ground in the middle left, and the gaps in a third plastic mesh barrier with the signs on it.

Protestors reach scaffolding at west side of Capitol, 12:58:25 p.m., 6 January, 2021, courtesy Dean Weingarten

The protestors reach the scaffolding at the Capitol.  It is about 12:58:25 in the afternoon on 6 January 2021.

More Protesters reach the Scaffolding. The crowds there continue to increase. it is very close to 12:59 p.m., 6 January 2021

More protestors arriving at the scaffolding area 25 seconds later. It is very close to 12:59 pm. The Police Lives Matter flag was prophetic.

President Trump’s speech ended about 01:12 p.m., about thirteen minutes later. The protesters were overwhelmingly supportive and protective of the police.

There were very rare exceptions.

The west side of the Capitol is where the first entry to the Capitol by the protestors appears to have happened. It is said to have happened between about 2  p.m and 2:40 p.m., about an hour or more after the above picture was taken.


About Dean Weingarten:

Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of Constitutional Carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.

Dean Weingarten

Subscribe
Notify of
162 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
musicman44mag
musicman44mag
1 month ago

We need a count down counter on this site to show how many more days we have until the 2024 elections when we can make America America again. JMO.
I smiling today knowing their is one day less of joe kamalatoe obiden to go.

Cougan
Cougan
1 month ago

Since the democrats knew sleepy joe couldn’t raise a crowd, they decided that the lack of people showing up could be blamed on the fences (Wall) they constructed around DC.

KDad
KDad
1 month ago

Scumbag, go somewhere else with your scam BS !!!

musicman44mag
musicman44mag
1 month ago

Wow, the left is really out here yanking the chain today. I guess it is to be expected from a group of dimwhits that have no morals or couth. My commie neighbor across the street, you know, the group that preaches unity that didn’t fly his flag for the 4th of July, Veterans Day or presidents day for the last four years is displaying his flag proudly today. I guess today was a day of unity and I missed getting the memo. Maybe because I am not part of the all uninclusive unity.

USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt
1 month ago
Reply to  musicman44mag

Or is it that you just refuse to fly a rainbow flag?

musicman44mag
musicman44mag
1 month ago
Reply to  USMC0351Grunt

🙂

AggregatVier
AggregatVier
1 month ago

So, the burning of the Reichstag, the Polish insurrectionists crossing the German border, and now the storming of the Capitol? Yeah, completely unrelated. I’m equally sure the months of diligent investigation by the FBI of the summer riots is about to lead to commensurate arrests plus thorough exposés by the reliable and freedom loving American mainstream media.

USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt
1 month ago
Reply to  AggregatVier

especially for the federal agents and employees and law enforcement officers that were being torched in their vehicles and federal buildings and assassinated as they sat in their squad cars

KDad
KDad
1 month ago

I believe the entire “riot” was a set up by the DemocRATs and Capitol Police in order to damage President Trump. Remember, the “Swamp” is very large and deep too! President Trump had managed to drain but a fraction of the swamp before being defeated in a corrupt and fraudulent election. One thing is certain, the Republican Party turned on the President at every opportunity and in doing so, cut their own throats. Mitch McConnell is RINO SCUM and that fact is being proven every day!

Get Out
Get Out
1 month ago
Reply to  KDad

Hold on a second while I put on my hip waders because the bovine excrement you’re spouting is getting deep.

Bill
Bill
1 month ago
Reply to  KDad

The swamp runs our government entirely. Government by the people is an illusion. They drive the country “wisely” and arrogantly while the common folk lead their insignificant little lives, and they laugh at self-rule. Just try to stop them, ever.

Omni
Omni
1 month ago
Reply to  KDad

Imagine if Antifa rioters made these same arguments and scapegoats. Would you believe them? At least they owned it. The cognitive dissonance is real.

musicman44mag
musicman44mag
1 month ago
Reply to  KDad

I agree. There was a video the other day on Ammoland that showed a guy starting the break in to the capitol and he was wearing a maga hat. After he got things fired up and rolling he tucked into a corner and took off his shirt and hat and was ANTIFAG.

Jonesy
Jonesy
1 month ago
Reply to  musicman44mag

I think that “guy” was Sullivan. No bail. No charge.

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonesy

Can’t have bail without charge! He was charged!

HLB
HLB
1 month ago

This Country is experiencing systemic failures that span the people here. When that happens, you can expect disorder from many sides. To stop the protests, the good and bad elements of them, you need to fix the cause of the failures.
HLB

Arny
Arny
1 month ago

An Active Denial system was on the grounds. But yet it was NOT used. Things that make you go hmmm..

Charlie Foxtrot
Charlie Foxtrot
1 month ago
Reply to  Arny

Cool story, bro!

wil
wil
1 month ago

sooo…you are blaming the boundaries that were clearly marked for the insurrection? does that mean if I put up a no trespassing sign with no physical barriers that its ok to come on my property? I see many EXCUSES for why this insurrectionist mob trespassed and desecrated our nations capital, AND NO ONE TAKING RESPONSIBILITY. the instant anyone crossed a barrier they stopped being protestors and became criminals. what rights does your broken ideology give you that any other protestor last year doesn’t have? most of the people last year had a lifetime of actual grievances with the status quo.… Read more »

Bill
Bill
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

Believe it or not, a cognitive dissonance occurs when the street light is red, yet everyone is crossing the street. It is hard to know what to believe at that point. Like when you think that people should obey little signs, and yet you very evidently stand for leftism and not the Constitution of the United States. We are less confused about you.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  Bill

but the system that was setup says the red means stop. that’s a fact, what do you base your OPINIONS on?

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

I cross the street when I decide I need to and it is safe for me to do so. Lights or no lights. YMMV.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

if you cross on red then you are jaywalking and its a crime.

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

And your point is what?

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

in context of the original article. its a crime and the article was trying to make it like it was the fault of the capital police.

Get Out
Get Out
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

I had hoped that after reading weeks in advance the lead up to the Nov. 6 protest that the Trump supporters would conduct themselves with dignity and demonstrate peacefully. Both BLM and Antifa couldn’t without burning, looting and violence. Instead the Trump supporters embarrassed themselves and this country when they upped the ante with violence, looting and insurrection.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  Get Out

I guess you will never know or understand what those blm protest were about. why do you think they were so angry?

musicman44mag
musicman44mag
1 month ago
Reply to  Get Out

REALLY?

Tionico
Tionico
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

quote: “insurrectionist mob trespassed and desecrated our nations capital” ” lets take a few of these hot-button words and give them some valid contect, OK? Insurrectionist. REALLY? Tjis was no “insurrection” Word defined.. to be on aobut the overtrhow of a legitmiat government. These poeple were NOT about the overthrow of the US GOvernment. If anything they were there to protest the attempts of oTHES at the overthrow of legimtimate government, by way of massive election fraud. Details elsewhere, go find thim if you dare. They are out there. Mob large crowd is a mass of people. Mob is a… Read more »

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  Tionico

taking a shit and smearing it in the halls of congress =DESECRATED! “we hold those truths to be sacred” the word has multiple meanings, one of them, “entitled to reverence or respect”, is the constitution worthy of respect or reverence? just because you don’t like the outcome of any election doesn’t mean you get to attempt an insurrection/coup. why not take a stroll to a nuclear silo somewhere and hop the fence, IF you are not immediately KILLED tell them you are there because those missiles belong to you and you just want to check them out. those hot-button words… Read more »

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

vievioc rj49vueh v0,vewoveofcjsow3, vir iww- 9ejvne

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

wil, The lifetime of actual grievances that are the most legitimate are with the people who perpetuate the dysfunctional micro-culture in high crime urban neighborhoods. That is where the bulk of unnecessary and violent deaths of Blacks occur (at the hands of young, black males). The police reform that is required is for a relatively small number of individual police officers to be held accountable for the horrible decisions they make, for example: Death of Botham Jean, black: off duty LEO Amber Guyger convicted and sent to jail Death of George Floyd, black: Derek Chauvin charged with murder – trial… Read more »

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

the issue is bigger than just murdering people that are unarmed. why does traffic court have 95% black people vs a random mix of people at the parking authority. ill bet its the same in your city too.
you know what reconstruction was after the civil war, do you also know why it ended? what were the terms and would you say it set up a system still in force today?
there is no correlation between people living in depressed areas killing people and LEO’s killing unarmed people.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

Sorry, it was a nice day – enjoyed some time outside. I don’t know that the 95% statistic is true in places where 13% of the local population is black. If the percentage of Blacks in traffic court is higher than the percentage of Blacks in the local population, it could be that Blacks commit more traffic crimes, more frequently drive on suspended licenses, more frequently fail to renew their license plate stickers, more frequently fail to have required insurance, and more frequently flee police due to open warrants. You keep going back to the Civil War. I had that… Read more »

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Kind of like why is it that Black youth fail at learning at a far higher rate than their White counterparts even when they have the same amount of money spent on their instruction. One of those things that make you go: Hmmmm….

Most here will not get the last sentence.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

Taxpayers can’t fix bad parenting, and a mother and grandmother are no substitute for a mother and a father.

As was pointed out in the last discussion with wil, if a teacher has to spend most of their time addressing bad behavior, it leaves very little time for teaching.

Knute
Knute
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

That’s early rap music. You can’t mean that even crap music is now too old to remember? Geez, I can’t be THAT old… can I? 🙂

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  Knute

Arsenio Hall.

Knute
Knute
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

Things that make you go: “uhhhhhhuhuhhhh”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN2nRXYbG58

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

i go back to when systemic racism was an absolute fact, not the civil war particularly. what the british did to the irish has zero bearing on the topic. many cultures were brutalized by many other cultures. we are talking about this culture. if some people commit more moving traffic violations, are you saying they just park really well? (that answer seems like a cop out). if you believe there is no correlation then why did you bring it up. i say that because that answer is a common excuse. isn’t it also true that whites are more often killed… Read more »

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

There is a saying wil and it goes like this: There are none so ignorant as those who do not know just how ignorant they are. It is a takeoff of the old, “None so blind”, saying. That pretty much describes you.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

how about you give me some specifics then, what facts am I ignorant to?

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

3.1415926535 8979323846 2643383279 5028841971 6939937510 5820974944 5923078164 0628620899 8628034825 3421170679

musicman44mag
musicman44mag
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

Your ignorance of facts does not extend beyond yourself.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  musicman44mag

are ya sure…im guessing you haven’t seen a mirror today!

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

why did reconstruction end, and what was the purpose in the first place?

There are none so ignorant as those who do not know just how ignorant they are.

Knute
Knute
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

It ended when the North had stolen everything that the South had. Or at least everything worth stealing.

Knute
Knute
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

“He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not,is a fool; shun him….”-https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/328538-he-who-knows-not-and-knows-not-that-he-knows

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

wil, I brought up the British/Irish issue because it is a similar issue to the one we are discussing, but with a different outcome. The issue facing the Irish who fled to the U.S. largely went away (because they escaped British oppression), but not completely, because they were treated badly in the U.S. (not nearly as bad as by the British). A large percentage had nuclear families, worked hard, and valued education. They received no special treatment for the wrongs of the past. The issue facing Blacks largely went away with the end of slavery and the reforms resulting from… Read more »

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

I go back again, because its what put us where we are today. again, if the civil war/reconstruction leveled the playing field why the need for a civil rights campaign in the 1950’s 1960’s 1970’s 1980’s 1990’s 2000’s 2010’s and now 2020’s?
is it illogical to assume some people drive really poorly but park really well? AGAIN, why did reconstruction end?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

Rate, wil, not absolute numbers – there are more white people than black people. Do the math. Do you really want me to get into the numbers with you? Just like Blacks commit violent crime at a higher rate than Whites, Blacks commit moving violations and the other violations I listed at a higher rate than Whites. Why? Because of low impulse control resulting from growing up in a dysfunctional micro culture. Of course they are capable of not speeding, they are capable of installing a brake light bulb, they are capable of keeping their insurance current, they are capable… Read more »

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF RECONSTRUCTION? WHAT WERE THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF IT ENDING?
WHEN WAS THE FIRST BLACK PERSON ELECTED TO CONGRESS?
you brought up the numbers and they show whites kill whites and blacks kill blacks. why would a black person fear there police and not a white person? there is a video of a cop telling a white woman she has nothing to fear they only kill black people. sure that’s one cop but why did reconstruction end? feel free to google it because at this point im guessing you just don’t know.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

The numbers indicate blacks commit violent crimes at a much higher rate than whites.

Why are you such an apologist? They don’t fear police – they just decide they don’t have to follow the rules. They can be as bad as they wanna be. They don’t give a shit about brake bulbs, valid driver’s licenses, insurance, or license plate stickers. Their fathers never told them they have to follow any rules whatsoever.

Reconstruction ending because Southern Democrats confounded and outlasted the Northerners that were in favor of reconstruction is irrelevant.

Last edited 1 month ago by JSNMGC
wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

I don’t care about the numbers, you brought it up. murder rates have nothing to do with systemic racism (other than living in poverty). I think you are speculating based on some really odd stereotypes. as stupid as this point is it kills your point. have you ever actually driven in “the hood” and see a $40k-$50k car parked outside of a $50k-$80k house? a friend of mine says she’s goes to pick up rent and her tenant is outside cleaning their car but when she went in the house the bathroom was disgusting. point being cars are thought highly… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

You should care about the numbers – they quantify the problem. It’s not due to poverty, it’s due to a dysfunctional micro-culture resulting in low impulse control. Investments are not being made in high crime neighborhoods because wealthy people that say the same thing as you, know the businesses will fail (because of the dysfunctional micro-culture) and that will destroy the narrative – and we can’t have that. Perpetuating victimhood mentality only ensures the problem will never be resolved. If Blacks stop clinging to the past and take advantage of the special, systemic, discriminatory policies that work to their advantage,… Read more »

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

read the link about reconstruction, and its end.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

wil,
Read everything I have written in this thread and the other discussion we had. The problems are self-imposed. Falsely attributing them to racism is perpetuating the problem while a tiny minority gain both power and wealth. They depend on the problems.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

can’t anyone say that about their opinions, you can’t even answer the question about why reconstruction ended. what in your mind makes your VIEWS facts? in order for there to be knowledge you have to deal with facts not conjecture.
ill give you a hint: it started with a disputed election.
when were the first blacks elected to congress?
why did reconstruction end?
I think you won’t answer because if you said it you would realize your hypothesis about “micro-culture” and poor communities would be proven wrong. we all need to face facts if we want a better society.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

wil,

Make your own argument.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

what gives you the impression I haven’t been?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

I answered your question yesterday about reconstruction. Southern Democrats wanted to end reconstruction and worked a number of agendas to get it done. The Compromise of 1877 put a nail in it and opened the road for racist Democrats to continue their racist ways. The argument you haven’t made is why that is relevant and why you think that is the problem in 2021. The racism of low expectations is alive and well today and the people who profit off of the misery in the high crime neighborhoods fight hard to keep things the way they are. One of their… Read more »

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

“The racism of low expectations is alive and well today and the people who profit off of the misery in the high crime neighborhoods fight hard to keep things the way they are.”

your words prove the hypocrisy. who controls the system, if not the wealthy powerful people?

Finnky
Finnky
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

@wil – Mostly “the people” drive the system. Your post above is a great example of “the racism of low expectations.” You are saying that the people in those high crime neighborhoods cannot fix their own problems themselves. In reality outside forces, those wealthy powerful people your reference, are pretty much powerless to change such a neighborhood. Yes “wealthy and powerful people” can help – but changes need to be driven by those who live there and who suffer most under current conditions. Get programs going in any one of those neighborhoods, then apply to relevant charitable foundations or get… Read more »

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  Finnky

well if those were my words I might agree, but they weren’t, they belong to JSNMGC. please tell HIM!

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

wil, We are going around in circles. You keep flinging things against the wall and hoping they stick. I stay with my original point: the problem in the neighborhoods we are discussing is a dysfunctional micro-culture that has to be changed from within and there has been no improvement. No one with influence in that community (like Obama) is willing to help send the message that they need to improve their culture. In fact, people (like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson) make a lot of money off the status quo. The problem is not wealthy, powerful people who control the… Read more »

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

one of the first comments I made to you was “if you raise a pig in mud, it will be comfortable living in mud. put that pig in a house and it will not want got go back to the mud” now that won’t apply to every household but if people don’t see anything better what is there to strive for, especially if the system is against them. not once have I differed from that. I’ve pointed out the hypocrisy of your argument several times and you failed to address any of that. like others with your beliefs you just… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

I have addressed your points.

Their own dysfunctional culture (the one you acknowledge) is against them. There is nothing in the “system” that is preventing them from changing that culture.

For 55+ years the “system” has discriminated against non-Blacks in order to assist Blacks.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

oh great, that offsets the 400+ years of an oppressed people. and what was the purpose of reconstruction again, and why did it end?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

Be more like the Irish and remember it but don’t let it consume you. I’d rather not pay any more than I already have for what some black slave traders and white slave buyers did a long time ago.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

I grew up poor, went into the military, came out went to work, started my own company, took the profits from that and bought real estate. now I physically work when I want for the most part and collect rent checks for a living. I am not consumed by that past at all. not everyone can be me tho’…lol

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

So what you are saying is that you are a slum lord?

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

conjecture is not the basis for facts…you need facts buddy…like your outdated ideology, learn the facts

musicman44mag
musicman44mag
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Amen, I am witness to that and have been subjected to that all my life regarding employment and education.

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

One of the primary drivers in the culture of Blacks today being what it is was the dissolution of the intact Black family by the Democrats in 1964. Because the father was no longer needed he was discarded by the mothers as the family was penalized if the father was in the house. With no fathers to provide what fathers do the result was written in blood. Good luck getting a Democrat to admit it. Ah yes, the welfare state.

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

JSNMGC, I see you said the same thing basically a couple hours ago. I missed that post.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

No problem. If repeating a big lie is effective, maybe repeating the truth can be effective. Obama was perfectly positioned to make a difference in the quality of life in the south and west sides of Chicago. He’s considered black, he lived there for awhile, he has an above average IQ, he is able to connect with that community at a personal level, and he was President of the United States. Instead, he sold out and gave speeches at the private conferences of bulge-bracket banks for $200,000+ an hour so he can afford mansions in D.C., Martha’s Vineyard, and Hawaii.… Read more »

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

so how can Obama make this change you speak of when you also say the government can’t make the change and it has to come from within (they want to live that way and have poor impulse control and so on)?
the problem with your ideology is it requires a lot of hypocrisy.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

He could have helped make the change not as the government, but as an individual who has influence in the community. That is coming from within – a black man who lived in the community who has influence to encourage people in that community to improve their own culture. I’m not suggesting he, as the POTUS, should have given more taxpayer money, I’m suggesting he could have shown some leadership while he was POTOS. I’m also suggesting that after he left office he could have been a key influencer to encourage the community to change from within. He didn’t do… Read more »

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

you can’t see the hypocrisy of your ideology? do you know where he got his start politically?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

“Community Organizer” – until he got political power, then he walked away from them.

Even as community organizer, he did not encourage self-reliance. He did not encourage fathers in the households. He did not encourage self discipline and restraint – to control impulses that result in imprisonment.

He was only a slightly better version of other race industrialists like Al Sharpton.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

do you think crime is a result of only bad impulse control? if someone was well educated made good money would then say gotta steal or whatever just cause the opportunity presented itself (Bernie Madoff not black)? are white collar crimes the result of poor impulse control? are there any socio-economic factors involved? do any people in poor underserved neighborhoods get up and go to work everyday for less money doing the same thing as other people?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

There are many neighborhoods across the U.S. where there is significant poverty and high rates of firearm ownership where people do not routinely shoot one another. The rate of murder and non-negligent homicide in the Garfield Park and Englewood neighborhoods of Chicago are more than 150 times that of the other neighborhoods I’m referencing. That is a staggering difference.

We have covered this before.

Why do you think people in high crime neighborhoods are helpless to improve their culture?

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

because a lot of people don’t recognize “their” culture is really OUR culture!
it was set up that way in…do you know? 1877 with the compromise!

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

“There you go again,” with the 1800s. Why do you have such a low opinion about the ability of people within high crime neighborhoods to just decide they are not going to continue to create numerous children with numerous women and then not be a father to any of those children? Why do you believe “the system” controls their ability to make other improvements to the micro-culture within those neighborhoods? We have been discussing the micro-culture within high crime neighborhoods that is dysfunctional and is the cause of their problems. That micro-culture is vastly different than the micro-culture in other… Read more »

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

opportunity!

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

true! and it worked on you…lol. light snack for ya!

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Will,

When will you attempt to delete your emotional post? Tomorrow, next week? Remember this one:

Will (1/15/21):
 
“The last thing Texas needs is traitor scum Lapierre and his handpicked corrupt and complicit BOD to locate here!!! Just when I thought it couldn’t get any worse now this! Parasite Lapierre will find out that misappropriation of funds and and being a traitor to the constitution (2A) is really frowned on and prosecuted in Texas! Gov.Abbott stop this move!!!!”

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

I understand exactly what wil is doing and I understand exactly what I am doing.

What’s funny is, wil understands the same things – it’s you who is missing the point.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Will,

I don’t agree with wil on what is preventing a positive change in the dysfunctional micro-culture in high crime neighborhoods that causes so much unnecessary loss of life and poverty, but he is able to carry on a conversation about an important topic.

This is a discussion board and the topic being discussed is a major component of race relations, the justification for more gun control, and the justification for yet more wealth redistribution and an even larger, more intrusive government.

Finnky
Finnky
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

@JSNMGC – You forgot to list one thing Obama continues to do to help blacks who feel powerless to improve their lot in life. As you said, they see him as one of them – but also someone who made it “the white man’s world”. The fact he went so far should be an inspiration for others to try to improve their lives and those of their family. At this point solutions will need to be multigenerational. It is quite difficult for an adult to make up for deficiencies in their primary and secondary educations. It is not nearly as… Read more »

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  Finnky

The thing is that Obama “made it in the white man’s world” because he was just another leftist flim flam man.

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

One reason for Obama not engaging in that activity is that he didn’t want to take the beat down he would have received from the “hood” and all those whose best interest require that the “hood” continues to exist. Oh, that’s right he is one of those who is best served by the “hood” existing.

musicman44mag
musicman44mag
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

You nailed it but lets not forget, white people and other races have done the same thing.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

I forgot to ask if racism is systemic?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

The only broad based racist comments I hear are from black Americans, Chinese, and Japanese.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

is it racist when trump said people don’t have a right to protest during the national anthem?

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

LOL!

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

He didn’t say they don’t have the right – he said the NFL (a non-government entity) should make a rule that kneeling should not be allowed during the national anthem. He didn’t send the BATFE into the stadium to drag away kneelers, shoot their dogs, and incarcerate them. He didn’t fine the NFL for not making such a rule.

No – it’s not racist to express his opinion that the NFL should make a rule that players of all races should not be allowed to kneel during the national anthem. It’s pandering to populism. He did that a lot.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

so the president has in this case HAD, no influence on how people think?and you do know he said that at a podium with the seal of the President of the United States, the head of the system, right?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

wil, when you say everything is racist, you lose your audience.

The NFL told the President to piss off and that was the end of it.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

I asked you if it was racist. there are still plenty of people who will regurgitate his words when the law says he had every right to kneel. he could have pulled the flag out and burned it for that matter.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

I answered your question “no.”

All the Black and White people who kneeled can continue kneel without any threat of government intervention. Trump did not say they don’t have the right to kneel.

All the Black and White people who want to burn the flag can continue to do so without any threat of government intervention.

Obama offended a lot of people with his words – the media did not foment a frenzy that people were no longer allowed to “cling” to their religion or firearms. The people who were offended just continued to follow their beliefs.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

what gun laws did Obama enact to take any guns away from you?
what inflammatory statement(s) did he make?
you asked earlier why black leaders don’t step up, check this out!

https://www.splcenter.org/what-we-do/civil-rights-memorial/civil-rights-martyrs

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

I didn’t say he passed any laws to take away firearms. I can carry in Yellowstone because of Obama. I said the media did not foment a frenzy based on Obama’s comments that offended people, for example: “it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.” “if you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that.” Some people were offended by those comments and the media didn’t foment a frenzy over the words – they put… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by JSNMGC
wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

seriously! that’s the best offensive stuff you got? on a scale of 1-10 how does “grab them by the pussy” stack up to that? “get those sons o’ bitches off the field”? “good people on both sides” in reference to nazi’s? if anyone was offended they are absolutely too sensitive.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

Lots of sensitive, emotional people out there – some of them are empowered by the media and misquote what people said in order to make the comment that offended them seem worse.

There are millions of people who are offended by the truth, because it shows they are victims of nothing more than their own decisions. They are so offended they lash out by calling people they disagree with racists in an attempt to censor discussion.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

or they end up as an insurrectionist mob storming the capital!

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

Emotions may have been what caused people to make bad decisions that day. Just because provocateurs manipulated them does not relieve them of their personal responsibility to refrain from illegally entering a government building.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

why can’t you say the same thing about the summer protest?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

I can. The differences are the scale of violence and destruction and the degree of manipulation by provocateurs.

We don’t yet know who murdered Brian Sicknick.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

well consider the issue from their perspective. I’ve seen videos of cops asking perfectly innocent people why they are upset that they have been pulled over and have their car searched. if only certain neighbors that look like you had the cops come and tell them we are here to search your house for guns so we can confiscate them. while other neighbors could keep theirs, would that make you angry, would you object in anyway or just comply and give them up?

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

wil, I guess you have never said anything “off color” to another guy while talking “man to man?” Oh, that’s right, sorry, I forgot.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

maybe that’s how you talk to your man while you are spooning after gettin it in (that means having sex), but my mother taught me to respect women. im guessing you are the little spoon.

Last edited 1 month ago by wil
RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

Come on, little wil, surely you can do better than that. They say to write about that which you know. At least you followed that advice.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

you win!

Last edited 1 month ago by wil
wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

oh and the bigger question you chose to ignore about the link…what say you to that?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

I’m convinced you are capable of making a lucid, intelligent, well though-out argument. Please make your argument.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

its systemic. how many of the people that assassinated those other people were brought to trial and convicted?

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

The references are difficult to follow due to the number of comments and the structure of the software.

Who assassinated whom?

I’m all for holding individual police officers accountable for making horrible decisions. You never indicated if you watched the Shaver video or if you are familiar with the reckless shooting of the newspaper delivery ladies.

The vast majority of people killed by police were killed because they were fighting, refusing to drop a weapon, or fleeing when the police had a reasonable belief they would harm others.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

yeah this thread is getting kinda long. its a list of civil rights leaders (all races) that were killed since the 50’s

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

and I really want to spend a month or so in Yellowstone, that place looks amazing!

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

You should. It’s one of the most beautiful places in the country. Most visitors never get more then 100 yards from the main road.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

yeah, I want topo map seclusion, where I don’t even see any signs of humans.

musicman44mag
musicman44mag
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

I will take the typical demonrat answer for five dollars on this one. WHO CARES!!!!

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  musicman44mag

well apparently, I do. but no one asked you did they?

musicman44mag
musicman44mag
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

Nope it’s not racist, it’s un American and doesn’t show or support the unity you and the lying president proclaim you are in favor of.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  musicman44mag

I don’t need to be your friend, but at the same time I don’t want you to kill me because you don’t like people that think like I do.

Finnky
Finnky
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

– You’ve got broader experience than I. Mostly I hear black Americans whining how racist whites are. Sometimes I hear blacks complain how illegal (Hispanic) immigrants are able to make a better life for themselves – clue – most of those immigrants gave up much coming here, work incredibly hard, work to learn saleable skills and will take pretty much any work offered. Those Hispanic immigrants really do face legally-enforced systemic discrimination barriers.

Not supporting illegal immigration or forgiving the lawlessness, but frankly I think it might benefit society more to deport people like you than economically disadvantaged Hispanics.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Finnky

Finnky,
Why do you think people like me should be deported?

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

you shouldn’t be deported at all, you have a right to think how you want. your rights, however, don’t trump another persons right to exist.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  Finnky

Finnky,

You never explained your comment. When you wrote “people like you,” were you referring to me?

Finnky
Finnky
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

@wil – Looping back to your comment that “there is no correlation between people living in depressed areas killing unarmed people.” I would argue that there is a strong correlation. Cops are individual human beings with normal drives and desires. One of the strongest human desires is the desire to survive. When working in an area where shootings between residents are more frequent – cops are rationally going to conclude that they are at higher risk there. Given the risk they will be on edge, more likely to perceive a weapon (actually present or not), and quicker to shoot in… Read more »

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  Finnky

very simple video game called hogans alley, pop-up targets that turn progressively faster. even simpler rules, shoot the criminal you advance, shoot a civilian game over. the higher levels get pretty intense (yeah I get that death is not an option playing a game). im trying to say regardless of fear you don’t shoot unless you see a weapon. if you’re that afraid find another job police work isn’t for just anyone. kid killed in washington jumping his grandmothers fence by a cop who literally was in cover. his life wasn’t in jeopardy even if the guy was shooting at… Read more »

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

wil, have you ever watched the movie “Magnum Force”?

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

no, had to work this weekend. is that the one you sent me the link for?

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

I don’t know what link you are talking about. Your answer gives me a better understanding of your demographic.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

conjecture is not the basis for fact!

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

I would say, wil, be careful your simpleton is peeking out; but, you put it on full display for the whole world to see. I must say that is a bold strategy.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

one thing I will guarantee you sir, is I am no simpleton! but, one of the signs during any debate when you know the other person knows their argument has no validity is when that person makes personal attacks instead of addressing the issue.

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

Ok, if you say so. What are these personal attacks of which you speak? If you are talking about me referring to you as a simpleton that is my evaluation of you given your writing. If you wish for a less demeaning evaluation you could always do better by expressing some logic and knowledge instead of the drivel you have given us so far. But that is up to you.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

There is a saying wil and it goes like this: There are none so ignorant as those who do not know just how ignorant they are. It is a takeoff of the old, “None so blind”, saying. That pretty much describes you.

here’s another, apparently you forgot this one. I even showed you how you could have made it less about me and more general in my reply. but again people that know their argument aren’t valid tend to enjoy the privilege of hypocrisy and selective memory.

see how I didn’t make that about you personally!

Knute
Knute
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

You quoted what he said without context, and then attacked it! How is that NOT “Making it personal”?

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  Knute

because he knew the context of his words and he was with whom I was speaking, that’s how!

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

Thing is, wil, I have always been known as someone who calls a spade a spade.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

well form a cohesive, logical argument and present it. calling people names isn’t that hard and requires no great intellect.

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

wil, if I said that you were a disappointment would that be calling you a name. If so, most likely it is a name you have heard many, many, times in your life.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

actually I apologize for getting down on your level. I will ignore future post from you unless they are formatted in a respectful way.

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

Well thank you, Little wil, that is mighty big of you. Probably best you stay on the porch.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

oh im not going anywhere, just won’t be responding to you unless you can put an actual conversation together. again, sorry I let myself behave like you did!

Finnky
Finnky
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

@wil – I was simply saying there is a correlation. To a small extent I agree – but over time stress of living in a violent society and facing frequent threats changes anyone’s personality and reactions. Firing cops who become sensitized or paranoid in such an environment – will result in no police in those areas. They already have a tough enough time finding people with skills and personality, willing to do that work. Their continue to be serious (fatal) police errors, but on the whole I believe they drastically improve situation in those locals. As @JSMNGC previously stated, black-on-black… Read more »

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  Finnky

should a person that is afraid of heights be a suspension bridge painter? you can be trained to minimize fear but you can’t eliminate it entirely. so a person that comes in with a disproportionate amount of fear needs to find work elsewhere.

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

Sort of like the security person who killed Ashli Babbitt?

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

hey i’de really like to know your opinion here. no one seems to have an answer when ask people with similar views as you.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

if they were muslims do you think more of them would have been killed? systemic racism!

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

wil; In regards to entering property marked with “no trespassing” signs (even ones which say “deadly force authorized”) you seem to have a very shallow understanding of the law. You can fix that if you want to.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

I don’t understand what you are saying here.

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  wil

And that, wil, is my point exactly.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

cmon man lets keep it respectful, im not your enemy.we’re just chatting. my understanding of no trespassing is just that “do not enter” I don’t think civilians can kill for a misdemeanor, maybe if you were trespassing at a nuclear silo.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

maybe!

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

Oldvet, you say that and then there are posters like “Dee” who try real hard to act like they know more than they do and are smarter than they are. He may be one of those. Something with which to while away the time. Nothing more.

wil
wil
1 month ago
Reply to  RoyD

if that’s a reference to me, I make no claims about my intellect, and actually im not that educated. I will say I dont think im stupid. it would be nice if we didn’t want to kill each other because I like chocolate ice cream and you like another flavor. lifes too short already!