Leak Shows People Being Added to Prohibited List Without Due Process

Millions of law-abiding citizens submit to background checks, as intimated by the president's comment to reporters. (Dave Workman)
Leak Shows People Being Added to Prohibited List Without Due Process (Dave Workman)

WASHINGTON, D.C.-(Ammoland.com)-Can you be added to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) “Prohibited” list without being convicted of a crime? According to leaked documents received by AmmoLand News, the answer appears to be “yes.”

The document in question is called “Guidance for Requesting a Submission of the NICS Indices Unlawful User/Addicted of a Controlled Substance Files.” It lets law enforcement officials add suspects to the prohibited list even if the subject hasn’t been convicted of a drug charge. Most gun owners are not aware that they can lose their gun rights without a court convicting them of a drug crime. This expanded power brings up a concern that the ability to add a suspect to the NICS Indices violates a person’s right to due process.

The NICS Indices is a list of people prohibited by the FBI from purchasing a gun.

When a Federal Firearms License holder (FFL) runs a NICS background check on a gun buyer, the system runs the purchaser’s name against the NICS Indices. If the system comes back with a positive hit, the FBI’s system will deny the sale of the firearm. No other information is supplied to the FFL about the denial.

The form lets law enforcement add someone to the NICS Indices if the subject fails a drug test. The reporting officer doesn’t have to file charges against the person who fails the drug test. Many positive drug tests are false. In almost all cases, the person is not notified that the law enforcement agency has added them to the NICS Indices.

The form also allows Law Enforcement to add a suspect to the NICS Indices if they claim they have found the person in possession of drugs regardless of state law. That means that a police officer finds someone in possession of a drug legal in a state, the officer can fill out the form and have the person added to the NICS Indices. More and more states have legalized marijuana, but the drug remains illegal on the federal level. An officer could find a person with marijuana and let them go because they are prohibited by state law from arresting them. The officer still could report them to the FBI and have their firearms rights revoked.

The most disturbing part of the form is that law enforcement can add someone to the list by claiming the person admitted to using drugs. The person doesn’t have to be arrested or fail a drug test. The officer can just claim the person said they had used drugs within the last year. A person who admits to trying marijuana eleven months ago will lose their gun rights by a cop adding them to the NICS Indices.

The biggest issue is that law enforcement could mark someone as an unlawful user of drugs without their knowledge. Lying on a 4473 form is a felony. The person who tried marijuana once 11 months ago might consider themselves drug-free, but the FBI would say they are a drug user since they have tried a drug within the last year. If a law enforcement officer reports them to the FBI, the same officer could arrest the person and charge them with a felony that could land them in prison.

The form also lets law enforcement add a person to the NICS Indies for mental health reasons. These reasons could be that law enforcement has committed someone involuntarily to a mental health facility or a court system adjudicating as mentally defective.

AmmoLand News obtained the form from an inside source that has chosen to remain anonymous.


About John Crump

John is a NRA instructor and a constitutional activist. John has written about firearms, interviewed people of all walks of life, and on the Constitution. John lives in Northern Virginia with his wife and sons and can be followed on Twitter at @crumpyss, or at www.crumpy.com.

John Crump

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Link
Link
1 month ago

What is not said is that law enforcement can just lie and put you one the list anyway.

uncle dudley
uncle dudley
1 month ago

I have had a conceal and carry license since 2004, which was approved by the local county sheriff, the state highway patrol and the FBI before I was able to get the license and yes they did finger prints.
Everytime I have gone to purchase a firearm I get a delayed response and can’t pay for the firearm and leave the store with it, I always have to make another trip to the firearm retailers place of business five days later to purchase the firearm, NICS is a piss poor department in the federal government and should be disbanded.

kristenbrown
kristenbrown
1 month ago

Good to read this article. Thanks author

Last edited 1 month ago by kristenbrown
WI Patriot
WI Patriot
1 month ago

Just another example of abuse and oppression…

Beowulf
Beowulf
1 month ago

Somebody let me know if the FBI put Hunter Biden on the NICS list.

WI Patriot
WI Patriot
1 month ago
Reply to  Beowulf

ROFLMFAO…not hardly…;)

Larry
Larry
1 month ago
Reply to  Beowulf

Nope. And FOIA requests concerning his case are rejected because they would “violate his privacy.” See:

https://waronguns.blogspot.com/search?q=hunter+foia&max-results=20&by-date=true

Finnky
Finnky
1 month ago
Reply to  Larry

Remember it is invasive to ask what guns Chipman owns – but necessary for ATF to know every gun you own.
So glad there are no hypocrites in law enforcement or politics.

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago

All my drugs are prescription drugs and legal under federal law, but there are some people I would prefer to be on marijuana rather than steroids and POLICE are on the top of my list. If alcoholics were prohibited some crimes might not have been committed. In 2010, a study of police officers working in urban areas found that 11% of male officers and 16% of female officers reported alcohol use levels deemed “at-risk” by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. If federal Red Flag laws apply, many police, military, State legislators/Governors, members of Congress, and Biden would qualify. Biden should not have sharp objects, much less nuclear codes.

TStheDeplorable
TStheDeplorable
1 month ago

Three categories of prohibited persons are especially subject to abuse: those who have ever used drugs, those who have ever consumed alcohol, and those who ever took antidepressant or anti-anxiety medication. It has long been the practice of governmental agencies to apply the most restrictive possible interpretations of rules to restrict people’s rights, and I expect the DOJ will soon take the position that anyone who has ever had a drink or used a drug, however long ago, is prohibited under the rule that habitual drug users and alcohol drinkers are prohibited, and then let the people sue to prove… Read more »

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago

So, under that rule, Clinton and Harris would not have had firearms, much less a nuclear code. So, do nukes qualify under the NFA or are they subject to the jurisdiction of the ATF or “AFT?”

swmft
swmft
1 month ago

fbi and atf came out of the democrats power and control ,where alcohol was prohibited under the 18th amendment drugs were simply outlawed,like the atf the reason used for justification that the law was legal is 18th amendment repealed by the 21st amendment which should have nullified all these laws ,and acts as well ,alot of what is “law” is based on past things government has gotten away with not power given under constitution ,if no one objects or has the money to fight it later when someone brings it up oh comment period has passed how is that not… Read more »

stick
stick
1 month ago
Reply to  swmft

“…how is that not a crime stealing of rights”.

“Deprivation Of Rights Under Color Of Law”;
USC18; Sec.242 IS a crime, actually, a capital crime, a law that is never enforced.

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  stick

It is only a capitol crime if someone dies as a result of being deprived of their rights. Congress has the power to deprive you of rights under Article 1, Section 8. In fact, they can conscript you into involuntary servitude; stripping you of ALL rights. It is not just military service, either.

PAF145
PAF145
1 month ago

Just another way for the left to turn the people against the police -another way to build their army

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  PAF145

REALITY ORIENTATION: The police are the first ones used as military. They have the hardware and have a history of disarming citizens in an emergency. The police have been turned against the people. Everyone is a felon to them. There’s a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state. The other serves and protects the people. When the police or military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.

swmft
swmft
1 month ago

you kind of have that wrong one protects the state from the outside the other protects the state from the people your gun protects you if you like to be free YOU ARE AN ENEMY OF THE STATE

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  swmft

Read what I wrote again.

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
1 month ago

There is no “due process” for any kind of prohibited drug violation. They all violate the rights of the user. No one is damaged by the act of using drugs EXCEPT the user and no one has the right to tell you what you can or cannot do to yourself. It is tyranny defined at the least.

Neanderthal75
Neanderthal75
1 month ago
Reply to  CourageousLion

Your Fantasyland assertion that no one is harmed except the drug user is easily disproven by crime based data from the last five to six decades, from every major city, every medium size city, and even small cities all across America. Murders directly related to the illicit drug businesses: including the murders of those directly involved in drug distribution, centralization, and transport, we then move to all the collateral damage of those murdered inadvertently by those firefights, including the targeting of family members of those involved in the drug business, then all of the Innocents in their homes and walking… Read more »

Vern
Vern
1 month ago
Reply to  Neanderthal75

You very nicely outlined the utopia the criminal element is looking forward to, including drug cartels and leftist politicians working toward that goal. Drug related crime is extreme in today’s world.

JMacZ
JMacZ
1 month ago

Has Hunter Biden’s name been entered yet?

M&P
M&P
1 month ago

Fewer guns in the hands of people that choose to do drugs or admit use to police is a positive. Nancy Reagan would support this.

Finnky
Finnky
1 month ago
Reply to  M&P

Ever hear the phrase “judge, jury and executioner?” There is no reason individual officers should be allowed this sort of power over other people’s lives. Let’s just forget that officers frequently lie, so you could get put on the list without ever encountering the officer who reports you, much less “admitting use.” If someone at the age of 18 tells an officer that they tried pot once when they were 17 and did not like it – under these rules a cop could honestly report that individual. The “drug user” might never even see drugs again in their lifetime, yet… Read more »

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  Finnky

An interesting thing is in interviews if you say you never used marijuana, they count it as one count of an attempt at deception.

Finnky
Finnky
1 month ago
Reply to  M&P

I would rather 100 drug users be left off prohibited list than one innocent person be wrongly punished.

Have you ever met pot smokers? Heavy users are so laidback it is hard to imagine them wanting to get a gun, much less actually going to the effort or expending the cash they need for more pot. The drug reduces aggression to point most are utterly harmless and incapable of defending themselves.

RugbyPlayer
RugbyPlayer
1 month ago
Reply to  Finnky

geez, just retired after 43 years in the wonderful world of autobody collision repair, (industry typical 50+ hr work weeks year in and year out)…., and have enjoyed cannabis virtually Every Single Day for the last 45.! Thanks to the violent nature of the Left and the way the Lefts leadership is prone to ‘Look the other way” or completely downplay the violence being perpetrated on the public, I have been motivated to purchase 7 diff firearms in last 12 months ( 2 Bersa .380 Thunders \ Hellcat 9mm \ new 12 ga to go with my vintage 1928 L.C.… Read more »

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  RugbyPlayer

While you are assertive, there are always exceptions and the ones we NOTICE most are the pot users who become passive. You still have not made an argument denying pot users are less aggressive. Are you arguing you are violent even though you use pot?

Knute
Knute
1 month ago

Are you at all familiar with the concept of “confirmation bias”? It is when a person suggests that a thing is generally a certain way, and then when the incorrectness of their position is pointed out to them, they respond that: “those are just exceptions. I’m still correct” Just FYI, that is the same technique used in Australia to create the fiction that: “97% of scientists believe in human caused climate change”. Well…. 97% of the 200 forms counted said that. But apx. 2 thousand forms were submitted. What the other 1800 said were not counted. Confirmation bias. One just… Read more »

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  Knute

I have had research classes in which confirmation bias was discussed. I also understand it from a media point. After wading through your comment, I am yet to detect any relevance to what I said or to what the person I responded to said.

USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt
1 month ago
Reply to  Knute

Have you taken notice of the stupidity and ignorance that is being displayed across the United States lately by the mass majority of people who just wear tampon style material masks over their face and social distance or stand on decals on the ground? Cower behind plexiglass barriers for a worldwide killer virus when there is no cure for the common cold (virus)?

Last edited 1 month ago by USMC0351Grunt
JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  Finnky

The argument is if you violate one law, what others have you? Most meth heads, crackheads, and junkies will admit to using pot. It is another way of asking if you have committed a felony. A second conviction for possession is a felony. I have to say I would rather someone convicted of drunk driving be deprived the use of arms than a pot user. A car has more destructive potential than a 20mm cannon. What I do not understand is why there is no restriction on possession of a car by felons. More people are killed by cars than… Read more »

Neanderthal75
Neanderthal75
1 month ago

Depends entirely in one instance on the drug used wouldn’t you say?

You smoke a joint and that’s one thing. You do a line of ‘quality’ cut coke, or spoon of heroin, or perhaps some PCP, or , that’s not the same thing as having a good English Style ale, or a shot of tequila, or 6 oz glass of wine!

Potency has a direct impact on behavior, and to argue that it does not makes no sense!

Try again.

Cheers from the oil patch in Central Wyoming

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  Neanderthal75

Wrong. It has to do with the willingness to break the law. If you have a mental addiction to anything, it can break the integrity to everything, I would argue. Substance abuse is not the issue. A single drink for an alcoholic can begin a cycle because loss of self-control does not limit itself to drinking. I did not claim potency does not impact behavior. Drugs do not cause people to be antisocial. Nicotine is the fastest addicting drug and typically the last one to be given up by junkies. Chew is more potent than smoking and harder to quit.… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by JohnLloydScharf
Neanderthal75
Neanderthal75
1 month ago

Your entire premise in the reply to me is predicated upon one underlying foundation: the ability to make rational choices, coupled with the ability to make moral choices. The biological and medical fact is that drugs change the blood chemistry of the human beings who ingest the various drugs, otherwise known as naturally occurring chemicals. The chemistry of the brain changes the most after drug use. Your example of an alcoholic taking a drink is irrelevant: alcoholics do not rape, rob, commit armed robbery, or bank robbery, in order to feed their habits. However, it is common, overarchingly common for… Read more »

Neanderthal75
Neanderthal75
1 month ago
Reply to  Finnky

Well there are several issues pertaining to your comment relating to grass that are problematic: 1. The grass of today is not the same stuff that used to be around when I was a kid (the good old days when pterodactyls still plied the warm thermals of the Cobalt skies): it has been genetically engineered to be exponentially more potent than natural occurring varieties. 2. Because of the increased potency of modern grass, people are actually able to overdose on THC derivatives coming from the grass: usually ingested via edibles with THC. People become schizophrenic, suicidal, a few occasionally leap… Read more »

Stag
Stag
1 month ago
Reply to  Neanderthal75

Sounds like you’ve been watching too much Reefer Madness

Neanderthal75
Neanderthal75
1 month ago
Reply to  Stag

No, I actually take a look at scientific reports, medical releases, and believe it or not listen to people who have been using grass all of their lives since they were kids (going back decades). You don’t need to believe me, and I’m not asking you to believe me, I’m telling you straight out that you can do the research and find from a chemical analysis of modern grass compared to the grass of days of yore, that chemically modern grass is exponentially more powerful than the grass of years gone by! This has been achieved by genetic engineering in… Read more »

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  Neanderthal75

You miss the fact that drugs do not cause criminal behavior. Criminal behavior causes the use of drugs.

Neanderthal75
Neanderthal75
1 month ago

You sir have the cart before the horse. I don’t know why you do not like empirical evidence, but again we have decades, let me repeat that DECADES of data involving addicts, the drugs they use, the timeline of the drugs they’ve used, and their actions after becoming addicts. Drug addictions, almost all of them, start with smoking grass. The rationale is as simple as it is insidious: a little grass makes you feel good, a little Coke must make you feel even better! And since Coke makes you feel a lot better than grass, maybe a little heroin from… Read more »

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  Neanderthal75

WRONG. You have decades of claims about data which is based on post hoc fallacies. The fact is the antisocial personality leads to trying, using, and continuing to use drugs. It the conclusions they made are post hoc assumptions not based on experiment. It is an assumption based on post hoc analysis. You are rationalizing and minimizing the responsibility of those involved. Most of social science is pseudoscience. Humans are not robots. They are unprogrammable and unpredictable. They have wills of their own which cannot be predicted, despite the propaganda of “psychoanalysis.” Perhaps it is familiarity which breeds contempt after… Read more »

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  Neanderthal75

You want to believe humans are robots so they have no responsibility. What will you blamestorm next? Rape, Robbery, and murder are due to biorhythms? Global warming. Bush or Trump? New World Order?

USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt
1 month ago
Reply to  Finnky

You obviously haven’t spent any time at all in the drug world?

Tackleberry
Tackleberry
1 month ago
Reply to  M&P

You do not get to remove any of the rights of US citizens. Those who attempt to do so will quickly find there to be nowhere they can flee to far or fast enough in order to escape retribution.

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  Tackleberry

That sounds like a threat. Every robber, rapist, and murderer gets to take the rights of citizens and far from all of them are caught. No restitution, retribution, or reform. Just escape. When your government violates the law, there is no law; just a fight for survival.

Tackleberry
Tackleberry
1 month ago

Sure, whatever you say Chuckles.

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  Tackleberry

YOU WIN THE WEASAL AWARD: For distinguished use of words and phases communicating vague or ambiguous impressions that something meaningful has been said.

Arizona
Arizona
1 month ago

You win the weasel award every time you post. Congratulations!

RoyD
RoyD
1 month ago

I think John has found a long lost twin brother.

Tackleberry
Tackleberry
1 month ago

I’ve read many of your posts but quickly discerned that you have very little coherence in your ramblings. What you believe is high thought is nothing more than the signs of the diminishing capacity of a subsetting mind, if there was a higher competency level even there to begin with. Most people on here ignore you as you have nothing to offer of any value or reason, but your narcissistic ego won’t let you see that. I’ve spent thirty years on one combat field after another during my service as a USAF officer. One of the most valued skills I… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Tackleberry
USMC0351Grunt
USMC0351Grunt
1 month ago
Reply to  Tackleberry

Yeah like we seen all the terror launched upon me peaceful protesters of Portland Seattle Kenosha Wisconsin and other places across the country where all of our apathetic warriors set back and just watch the destruction on the news rather than to engage and remove the threats of society.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
1 month ago
Reply to  M&P

Allowing law enforcers to exercise more power is not a good idea. Secret lists are not a good idea. Having to prove your innocence (to a vast bureaucracy) is not a good idea. Not being informed of the identity of your accuser is not a good idea. An example of how laws (in fact this very law) are not enforced against the friends of totalitarians has been in the national spotlight over the last year. Selective enforcement of laws (by law enforcers – the majority of whom will enforce any law they are ordered to enforce and not enforce any… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by JSNMGC
gregs
gregs
1 month ago
Reply to  M&P

wow! you should be added to the list of prohibited users as a mentally defective person, especially with that totalitarian mindset.

swmft
swmft
1 month ago
Reply to  gregs

caffeine addicted sugar junkies judging other peoples habits,and as a group doctors and police smoke more than the general population so add nicotine/caffeine too strange nicotine was never put on the illegal list it is more toxic and just as addictive as coke (between 30 and 60 mg of nicotine will kill coke takes 6.5 grams or 6500mg 100 times as much) so tell me what is worse

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  swmft

1.A tyrant in charge is much worse. 2.lethal dose of caffeine for most people is about10 grams. The most you get in a drink is 410mg – which means about 25 drinks of Starbucks Coffee, Pike Place Roast or 1250 red bull. 3.The CDC says 50 to 60 milligrams of nicotine is a deadly dose for an adult who weighs about 150 pounds. But some research suggests a lethal amount may be a lot higher. It’s not likely you’ll overdose on nicotine just from smoking cigarettes. Your body absorbs only about one-tenth of the nicotine in a cigarette, around 1 milligram, when… Read more »

stick
stick
1 month ago
Reply to  M&P

Nancy’s daid. Cover her over afore she stinks.

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  M&P

You sound like an ATF agent trying to bait people into giving up information publicly.

JohnLloydScharf
JohnLloydScharf
1 month ago
Reply to  M&P

Does it foul your tongue when you put words into the mouths of dead people?

Patriot Solutions
Patriot Solutions
1 month ago

Why is my post in quarantine? There is no foul language and it is based in fact.

I guess I will go back to the local news and see all the pedophiles that got rounded up today here although I hear this is a conspiracy theory yet there they are, famous.

Last edited 1 month ago by Patriot Solutions
Arizona
Arizona
1 month ago

One in five of mine seem to fo into quarantine as well, even if they are simply excerpts from SCOTUS decisions on bearing arms. Never any foul language, and it takes a few days to get approved.

Last edited 1 month ago by Arizona
Finnky
Finnky
1 month ago
Reply to  Arizona

I also occasionally have posts quarantined. Figure it’s related to excessive length.

@PS sometimes posts extended comments. Might try breaking into bite sizes pieces 🙂

Deplorable Bill
Deplorable Bill
1 month ago

Tyranny and treason. Surprise! You have been put on the $#1+ list not only did you not know about it but you have done nothing to deserve it. There used to be a thing called due process but apparently it’s not so now. When politicians, judges, lawyers and enforcement personel act like terrorists you might as well get ready because it’s coming to a town near you. Makes me wonder when is that tree Jefferson talked about going to be refreshed. If this was 1775 the balls would already be flying. Sooner or later they are going to try their… Read more »

Arizona
Arizona
1 month ago

Soon. Very soon.

Worst thing is, the congress critters never do their own dirty work. Americans will be up against Americans who are enforcing illegal and unconstitutional laws, rather than taking on the devils in Congress or at the State level who are pushing this garbage.

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
1 month ago
Reply to  Arizona

Well the ENFORCERS are the problem. Without them the polytickshuns are castrated eunuchs. http://thickredline.org

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
1 month ago

Buero rats and politickshuns, “Constitution? We don’t follow no stinking Constitution!”

Patriot Solutions
Patriot Solutions
1 month ago

Says right in the controlled substances act that state legal cannabis is excluded from the prohibition. Anybody can go read it, it is a very short paragraph and there is a law firm in Greenwich Village Colorado that has filed suit on exactly this single paragraph. Even stoners can read the short paragraph and know what it means and to prove this you can go to the dispensary right down the road and see uncountable armed people there protecting the weed openly without hesitation or second thought. “Colorado’s Constitution states that “[t]he right of no person … shall be called… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Patriot Solutions
CourageousLion
CourageousLion
1 month ago

“Feds are butt hurt jizz gulpers aka the real criminals.” ROTFLMGO! SOOOOO true!

Green Mtn. Boy
Green Mtn. Boy
1 month ago

These days the Constitution is but a doormat, that the feet of tyrants wipe their feet on daily.

Patriot Solutions
Patriot Solutions
1 month ago
Reply to  Green Mtn. Boy

Obedience is not a virtue.

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
1 month ago
Reply to  Green Mtn. Boy

And it all started with the Whiskey Rebellion. Proving it never was intended to be “our” Constitution.

Arizona
Arizona
1 month ago

And yet, Biden’s boy committed multiple felonies including lying on his 4473, and has not been arrested, prosecuted, nor imprisoned.

Either laws apply to all, or they apply to no one.

Patriot Solutions
Patriot Solutions
1 month ago
Reply to  Arizona

Yes, that is a fact.   “Section 922(g)(1) sweeps so broadly, covering any person convicted under state law of a felony or a misdemeanor carrying a sentence that exceeds two years, that in particular applications it is underinclusive, curtailing the constitutional rights of some and not others for the exact same conduct. Far from regulating for problems that do not exist, Congress is here not even regulating the vast majority of conduct it apparently deems problematic. Ultimately at stake in this case is whether the government may arbitrarily burden the constitutional right of some citizens and not others. This equality… Read more »

CourageousLion
CourageousLion
1 month ago
Reply to  Arizona

Fact is…

Billy-Jack-meme.png