What It’s Like to Live in a State Hostile to Gun Owners

Andrew Cuomo
What It’s Like to Live in a State Hostile to Gun Owners

USA -(Ammoland.com)- With the election of President Donald Trump, many gun owners breathed a sigh of relief, that we dodged a bullet so to speak of having someone in charge of the executive branch that was in favor of new and stricter gun laws.

We blocked someone who could have changed the balance of power within the US Supreme Court for the next several decades. After that narrow 5-4 Heller decision, where we were a single vote away from possibly losing the 2nd Amendment forever. But what of those who live in states where no matter who runs Washington, that our rights are under fire from a constant barrage of legislation that continues to strip down what the Founding Fathers gave us?

I have lived in the state of New York my whole life, and for those who have never been here or seen it, New York City is only a small part, but the politics there influence the whole state. This state has not always been the rotten cesspool you see it as now, and it was at the heart of many of the most pivotal battles of the American Revolution and before that, the French & Indian War.

If it weren’t for some of the engagements during that conflict, the British might have never stayed on this continent, and we could all be speaking French. Later during the War of 1812, there was the Battle of Plattsburgh, with dueling engagements, one on water and one on land, where American forces repelled a British invasion and effectively ended any attempt by that nation to enter this country from the north.

New York has always had a rich tradition of hunting and the outdoors with the Adirondack and the Catskill Mountains, and lots of farmland in between and all the way to the Ohio, Vermont, Pennsylvania and Canadian borders. This state has not always been the liberal bastion it is now turned itself into.

So what happened? Very simply put this state turned blue because of its large urban population centers.

There are nineteen million people living here, and eight million of those live in New York City alone, but there are only five million registered Democrats.

The problem is, there are less than three million registered Republicans according to the last census. There have been decades of one area of the state ruling over the rest of the state country only by the weight of numbers. Each governor that has been elected has been more liberal than the last, with our current ruler, Andrew Cuomo lording over the Empire State (a more apt name cannot be given to it).

I started owning guns in 1994, and at that time the majority of the laws here were not that strict before that unless you lived in New York City where crime at that point was running rampant before Rudy Guiliani being elected as Mayor and is again thanks to the current chief executive there.

For instance, a permit to carry a handgun in the state of New York is not valid in New York City, which since the state government isn’t even located there is staggering, telling you how much political pull one city has to override state law by keeping honest citizens from exercising their rights.

People might be asking, why not move out of state? Many can, but many cannot. For those of us with jobs, careers, families, and responsibilities and maybe years and decades away from being able to retire, moving away is not as easy as it sounds. Sure if you’re fresh out of high school or college, that’s an easier choice, but not so easy for rest of us.

Battle of Plattsburgh
Battle of Plattsburgh

The other option is to fight back through the ballot box. When Governor Cuomo rammed through his Safe Act, there was immediate anger and pushback on all sides. Many county sheriffs stated that they would not have their officers enforce parts of it, residents sued after being arrested for something that only before the signing of that law was perfectly legal.

Something as simple as having ten rounds in a ten round magazine that you could still legally own would guarantee you a trip to the county lockup. The one positive thing that came out of the Safe Act, it unified gun owners as nothing has ever done in this state.

There have been small victories, for instance, we can have ten rounds in our ten round magazine again, there are New York compliant AR rifles although they are neutered versions of their former selves. Also, the planned background check on ammunition appears to be dead since the idea was never actually thought out when the law was passed.

The SAFE ACT also brought out people who have never voted before. When Andrew Cuomo ran for re-election in 2014, he won by one of the smallest margins in state history, winning with sixteen out of sixty-two counties, but of course, most of that was the New York City area and the other population centers.

One of the other reasons why New York is the way it is, the Republican leadership, for the most part, is as bad as the Democrats when it comes to politics. When the Safe Act was passed, it did so because of many of the Senate Republicans, including Dean Skelos, [who was once convicted of Corruption] the former Majority Leader of the State Senate, voted in favor of it. In the end, nine Republicans voted in favor of the Safe Act despite pleas and calls from their constituents telling them to oppose it.

All across the state of New York, county after county voted to oppose the Safe Act, with only a handful voting for it. The Governor did not care, the Democrats in power did not care, they passed a law that many still to this day oppose.

So what can those of us here behind enemy lines do?

We can demand better representation from our leaders. There’s a groundswell in the country right now of ordinary people who are tired of their choices, whether it’s state or federal.

Safe Act Stance
Safe Act Stance

As a citizen, you need to register to vote, and you need to vote for the candidate that will do the job he or she says. If not, they need to be replaced, and those running for office need to know that.

The one thing many gun owners here will say is that they feel like they have been abandoned. I know many former NRA members who will no longer pay money when they feel like they have been left out in the cold, which has led to the rise of organizations here like S.C.O.P.E., small in stature but fiercely fighting for gun owners when they can. Gun owners need hope; they need a reason to get out and vote.

We need candidates who don’t just give out the “You can’t fight New York City” line and just go along to get their paycheck and pension. We need someone to run for governor who can find upstate and northern New York without having to look for it on a map or who has been north of Albany more than once or twice in their lives.

I feel for those in other states like mine (NJ, CA) who have no problem stripping the rights away from gun owners. Right now Andrew Cuomo is proposing a new law where gun owners who are arrested for domestic violence lose their firearms, permanently.

This new law would mean confiscation, something he had advocated for all along when the Safe Act was first announced. All gun owners here in this state need to oppose it. But gun owners in every state where they are living under the thumb of elected officials who would with the stroke of a pen strip their right to defend themselves all the while they enjoy armed security, need to organize,  Get out the facts, register to vote and then make sure on election day they’re pulling that lever.

David LaPell

I would also tell those who live in states where gun rights are not so restrictive, don’t get complacent. Our rights here were not in danger overnight. We didn’t start off this way, politicians snuck in like a fox in a henhouse and started taking them one by one.

Mocking us here by saying we elected stupid leaders are only partially true, some of us are fighting back, some of us want to enjoy where we live, raise our kids and have grown up. That’s what its like to be in occupied territory.

 

About David LaPell:

David LaPell has been a Corrections Officer with the local Sheriff's Department for thirteen years. A collector of antique and vintage firearms for over twenty years and an avid hunter. David has been writing articles about firearms, hunting and western history for ten years. In addition to having a passion for vintage guns, he is also a fan of old trucks and has written articles on those as well.

  • 99 thoughts on “What It’s Like to Live in a State Hostile to Gun Owners

    1. Lee Smith, you obviously have failed history. What tool hasn’t been used in war? Rocks have been used throughout history. Our 2A states “arms”, not firearms. What do you believe we fought the British soldiers with, slingshots? What weapons do you believe the privateers that attacked British shipping with? They had cannons and all sorts of other arms and firearms.

      If you believe the 2A is only about protecting single-shot muskets, you are also clueless on the history of firearms. There were many designs of “pepper boxes” that could fire multiple rounds, some as many as 20 or more. Then there was a musket invented in the 1600s that could fire 16 balls with one ignition, probably on of the first “automatic” firearms. Then in 1780, Garardoni invented an air rifle that had a tube magazine that held 20 lead balls. It was used by the Swiss military for over 30 years, and it was even taken on the Lewis and Clark expedition and they made a point of showing the Indian tribes they met its power and rate of fire. There are numerous other examples, but those easily prove that the 2A isn’t to protect muskets.

      The 1911 Colt .45 was a weapon of war until the 1980s, should those be banned? The AR-15 was never a weapon of war. Converting any firearm to automatic is already illegal. However, we are still allowed to purchase and own automatic weapons. Yes, you still can legally purchase an M-16, it just won’t be new and it won’t be cheap.

    2. My version of the Bill of Rights says: “The following twenty-three rights shall not be prohibited by Congress or the States”

      – A New Constitution for a Free People

    3. Food for Thought…There is a TV program here locally one of the PBS morning shows for kids mostly. In it ,it gave some statistics one of which is there are some 6000 deaths yearly from High Voltage Electricity. Having worked around it for near 50 years it caught my ear. So when someone wants to ban guns because they cause deaths, Ask them how about banning electricity because it also kills . It silent even with out a “suppressor” , it is invisible With out wearing camo, it is a humble tool until abused. I’m sure you all can come up with many comparisons on your own. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t use it . it is a argument I have never heard used .

    4. I’ve been following the comments for a while now. It seems that some people want to do this but don’t want to do that because they aren’t interested, ie: I want a carry permit for my pistol and self defense but I don’t think anyone should have an assault rifle. “I cannot see for the life of me what a civilian needs such a thing for.” or I’m a three gun shooter who cares about a CCW. If you are pro firearm of any kind–CCW, hunting, target shooting, Cowboy Shooting, 3 gun events, long range, ultra long range you all have to be pro-gun. You can’t support one type and not the others. “United WE STAND–divided we fall” I’m not much of a rifle shooter certainly not long range, however, I must support them or the anti’s will divide us and take down one type at a time. So get your @#$% together and support all shooting types.

    5. I agree that NYC basically runs the state. I am a retired NYC Corrections Officer, with a full-carry permit. My permit allows me to carry throughout the state EXCEPT for the 5 boroughs of NYC. Which is absolutely ridiculous being I am retired from the job in NYC.

      I have a buddy that was also a NYC Corrections Officer, but he hated the job and quit, it took him years to get a permit and it is only valid (for carry) to and from the range.

      1. I am retired federal law enforcement officer. I too, in theory at least, can carry under LEOSA. However, the 2nd Amendment is for all citizens, not just the chosen few. Unless you are a prohibited person whose rights were taken by due process, no city or state should be able to prevent you from exercising you rights, to include the 2nd Amendment. That is the way it should be in all cities and states throughout this country, regardless of which local or state political hack is in charge. That is what we should all fight for.

    6. I agree with the main point of your piece, but your statement that crime in New York City is again running rampant is a complete and utter lie; crime rates in New York last year dropped to their lowest levels since the 1950s. Here’s a link to a New York Times story, but if you consider that fake news you can simply google the statistics themselves: https://nyti.ms/2pHFOJy

      1. Or use duckduckgo, which does not data mine and track and did not do analytics for the HRC campaign. Seeing all that we now know about google, perhaps we can learn from the left about how powerful language is and start trying out “look it up” or “research it” instead of giving the powerful, corrupt monopoly free advertising. Smartest thing they ever did was convince people that looking something up was called “googling.” A billion dollars couldn’t have bought that much power and control.

      2. Ever since the “CompStat” debacle, where crimes were not properly documented, the data out of NYC is still suspect. Homicides, rape and gun crimes were purposely lowered, so as not to indicate or show evidence of a crime wave.

      1. The 2nd Amendment is part of the Bill of rights, which gives every law-abiding US citizen the right to keep and bear arms. Furthermore, this right cannot be infringed upon by any federal or State law.. Unfortunately, in this free country, anti-gun liberal politicians who believe no civilian should have any type of gun, (ie, Bloomberg, Former President Obama, Cuomo, Sen. Schumer, Rep. Pelosi, VP Joe Biden,Sen Feinstein, et al.) most of the liberal Media and worst of all liberal Supremeist Judges at all levels of the judiciary who twist and even ignore the constitution to make new laws, which is the sole responsibility of the legislative branch. Judges may interpret the law, in certain cases, but they cannot make new laws as they please. Where we have predominantly liberal (democratic) populations and therefore liberal legislators (NY, NJ, CA.) we end up with an infringed 2nd Amendment.

    7. Terence-
      Am I missing something? I hear words like “Marxism” and “Liberal” thrown around, as it seems to be assumed by the throwers thereof that anyone who considers himself one or the other will be anti-gun. I certainly consider myself a libertarian, although not the kind most people on here would consider themselves. No, I am a mix of a communist and libertarian. And yet once you can get over believing that I would make such a statement on this forum, I can say that many of our ideas would agree. I am, for instance, pro-gun. I am not, however, pro-assault rifle. I cannot see for the life of me what a civilian needs such a thing for. The answer a corrections officer gave me was ‘hunting;’ he dug himself a deeper logic hole by saying that the SAFE act inconvenienced him by forcing him to reload overmuch.
      frankly, those are absurd comments. Use a Winchester model 70; the pre-’64’s are as beautiful a bolt gun as the world knows. I had a beautiful 98K with a sporter stock, rich and brown, and a .303 Enfield. I had a Krieghoff K-80; all outstanding sporting weapons. A 1911 is a thing of great beauty, without question; but for a civilian is there a legitimate use? Umm…sure, I think there is, in limited circumstances. But not for M-4’s.

      When you go around and around with the 2nd Amendment (please don’t say God-given; it sounds puerile, and the guys who wrote it were deists) – and I defer to the wisdom of Lawrence Tribe, who indeed believed the the Amendment allows personal carry, without a well-regulated militia – still, if the purpose was to permit civilians to resist a tyrannical government, well…a bunch of whiteboys with trace adkins hats, F-150s, guts and Ar-15s? Resisting the American Police Establishment?

      A joke. The war on drugs in the greatest constitutional travesty to have yet taken place, and had ruined the lives of millions for reasons that would have left the founding fathers with mouths agape. And I think they would have wanted the country in its current form to be dismantled. But…I think the reason why guys want assault weapons is because they like them, not because they think they give the citizens a reasonable chance of rebelling against the government.
      Let me end on this: I am a Bookchinite intellectual…but I also served this country, and feel that my time in the 82nd and the citizen I am give me a place to speak. All of the over-and-unders in the world; yes. Bolt guns, yes. Beyond that…I don’t know. So this posting thought, please let us come closer together as Americans…despite our differences. God bless.

      1. @Terence: I am sorry to tell you that I am one of those persons. You are poorly mistaken and it may be of great concern to you but YOU ARE A SOCIO-COMMUNIST. The socialists and communists like guns just like you but to be used for different purposes, like subversion and/or inciting revolution leading to a SOCIO-COMMUNIST Regime. I’d suggest Venezuela, Cuba or even France, the UK or Spain for a country welcoming to your views. The USA is a Democratic Republic. We use the democratic process for many things but that is different from a DEMOCRACY. That’s the word that has been thrown around for a few decades now misleading many just as yourself. Democracy implies and is EVERYTHING socialist or communist.
        One more thing…. Boy are you a confused person on the wrong forum. SEE: MoveOn.org or FkgBama’s website.

        1. Well to correct myself a little. We are a Constitutional Republic that utilizes the democratic process to effect various executive, legislative and/or certain judicial actions. Freedom is not free. We the people say, “Don’t Tread On Me”, “1776” and most of all “Live and Die Free!”.
          As in “I shall live and die free. I will not be tread upon. So don’t tread on me”. My motto.

          @Bill: Two Thumbs up!

        2. The US is a Representative Democracy, (republic) not a democracy. We elect our representatives to the house and senate to REPRESENT us, which many seldom do after getting elected
          Remember in The Pledge the words “and to the Republic for which it stands”

          The Electorial College was implemented to prevent the cities from governing the rural areas. The thing that has liberal crying in their beer.

      2. After what you said there me make me want to puke even claiming that you are in any way libertarian just because you want drug legalized.. wow. What you really are is pretty simple—one totally confused m-f’r.

        Maybe you need to look at the definition and try to actually grasp the concept of what a classic liberal in this nation really is- libertarianism holds liberty at the core of both in its name and in its belief— you have the liberty (which belongs to ALL people simply because we exist) to do whatever we wish as FREE MEN as long as we do not infringe on the liberty of someone else. Or properly said by Thomas Jefferson “rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within the limits drawn around us by the equal right of others.” It is ownership of ones self. Living with true rightful liberty would mean things like theft, murder, rape, destruction of another persons property, assault etc. are all by default all crimes against all free men in this world and should be punished accordingly. That being said – why in the hell should anyone (or any .gov) be able to tell what you can or cannot “have” be that a Winchester model 70, a 1911, a M4, a tank, or ANYTHING in this world as long as you buy it with the honest fruits or your or your families labor and you are not hurting the liberty or others when using it?!? It is really not a hard concept.

        Im not even going to try and understand how you can believe even remotely like that (other than the ability to have and use drugs) AND yet also say you believe in communism…which is, at its heart, the polar opposite of freedom because its giving up that “ownership of ones self” to a government or better said to “a collective” and letting the collective decide everything you can and cannot do and how to divide the fruits of all labor as they see fit. Like I said–you are one confused M-f’r.

        If anything I would argue that being Libertarian may lead one to eventually believe in Minarchism or to the extreme to believe in Anarchism because people slowly start to realize that there really is very little to no use for a state in a world where people are moral and respect each others liberty—- but the problem is that, the more we “kill god” in our society (by promoting immorality, hatred, and disrespect for each others life and liberty), the more we the people continue to become morally bankrupt, and the more we freely give governments authority over our lives in exchange for state protection.

      3. Your partially right some founders where deist – definition = belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind. Some god fearing, but most if not all stated without Christian values, or morals it would be impossible to have a self governed people. But as far as guns or any control of, I know all founders had a mindset and stated countless times the importance of the 2 Amendment and I quote as a means to take government back WHEN NOT IF government usurps your rights. This is not treasonous thinking (The illegal treasonous actions of a Government not following the rule of law The Constitution & Bill of Rights ) of the people is the reason of having to take back control of a government. Whats the public or consumer version AR it a semi auto rifle! thats it. It is not the government issued selective fire weapon which is Semi Auto / Full Auto period. The consumer AR is the same as my uncles Browning bar 7 mag or my others 270 win. or my dads old 742 Remington semi auto 30-06 all beautiful guns but no different other than looks. or maybe your just against semi-autos. How about shotguns I have an 1187 or my dads old browning A5 both semi-auto’s and beautiful guns. Any of these guns could kill a lot of people fast in the wrong hands isn’t the nut job sociopath at fault think?. Idiots like you disgust me, Tell me the difference between Stalin (Lenin’s) successor – communist, and Hitler – dictator both voted or manipulated the people into power both gained absolute control over the fearful people. Actually Lenin already had full control. All I can say is your a Ignorant Traitor that has not one once of real intelligence and sure as hell are no libertarian . Look at history see the oppression caused by a few misleading the masses into ignorance that was there real intent.
        Below are a few quotes apparently from one of your mentors

        Vladimir Lenin/Quotes
        A lie told often enough becomes the truth.
        The goal of socialism is communism.
        One man with a gun can control 100 without one.
        Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.
        The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency.
        When there is state there can be no freedom, but when there is freedom there will be no state.
        Without a revolutionary theory there cannot be a revolutionary movement.
        The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
        Communism is Soviet power plus the electrification of the whole country.
        Freedom in capitalist society always remains about the same as it was in ancient Greek republics: Freedom for slave owners.

      4. First and foremost, communist ideology contradicts the principles upon which this country was founded. The same is true of socialism. Second, very few people who are pro-gun are not armed with so-called assault weapons because they are not readily available to the public. The AR15 was sold to the public before the M16 was tested and adopted by the armed forces. Would you have carried an AR15 against an AK with a 90 round drum? Or would you choose the M4 or SAR?

        You mentioned a number of firearms which, before they became common use for hunting, were military arms. The time when they were used in combat is passed. It’s a new day. The Founders would, according to their own writings, have approved of any technological advancements which would give the people the ability to defend their rights. Here in CA, Brown and his minions are rapidly restricting our ability to defend our rights as he and the Dem controlled legislature ram restrictive laws down our throats, violate their oaths of office, and ignore law abiding citizens while protecting illegals.

        My question for you is, if the federal government went rogue (as it did under Obama and the Clintons) and the government was using M4s and worse, what would the Founders have considered the People should have to counter the government forces? Bolt action 5 shot rifles?

        If you served in a combat role, then you know that a tank, jet, or whatever becomes a paperweight useful for holding patches of the ground in place when the supply line is broken. The crews of tanks and such become foot soldiers when they grind to a stop for lack of parts, fuel, etc. Think back to Vietnam and the weapons used against the might of the US Armed Forces. Think of the present when people wearing rags have kicked ass on the Russians and Americans.

        At the time of the Revolutionary War, only an estimated 10% of the people supported rebellion, and yet that 10% went on to beat a well trained war machine with far more firepower and experience. An army supported by German mercenaries (Hessians) with far less civility. We beat them again during the War of 1812.

        Contrary to the propaganda put out by the progressives, the vast majority of the Founders were not deists. You should do your own research and not just repeat what you hear from those who would like nothing better than to destroy the Founders’ credibility in order to strike down the legitimacy of the Constitution.

        Thanks for your service to the nation, from a 21+ year 100% disabled veteran of Vietnam..

        1. From the burnt out White House: Did we really outright win the war of 1812? Or did both sides decide it wasn’t worth fighting any longer. They stopped stealing our sailors and we gave up on taking Canada.

            1. Larry, yes, it did, but it proves WB’s point, when they sent those forces, they expected to win. Why else send those troops?

      5. Commie says: “I am, for instance, pro-gun. I am not, however, pro-assault rifle. I cannot see for the life of me what a civilian needs such a thing for.”

        Translation: “I am anti-gun.”

      6. “I am, for instance, pro-gun. I am not, however, pro-assault rifle. I cannot see for the life of me what a civilian needs such a thing for.”

        Translation: “I am anti-gun”

      7. You don’t comprehend that the 2nd Amendment is a political right, not a “right to hunt.” Look to your comrades in Venezuela to illustrate this reality – the government only permits politically reliable people to possess firearms. Corrupt governments know that you can’t be “up in arms” if you have no arms. Gun control only serves government interests.

        Look at the AR15. The .223 round is too small to humanely kill deer sized game. And the rifle is too big for personal carry, and sort of unwieldy in personal defense inside a building. But for growing a population of citizen marksmen who can rapidly assemble with weapons that share common ammunition and magazines, it’s stunning perfect. The AR15 is a political weapon in every sense. It is what the 2nd Amendment was written to defend.

        As for having values that are both communist and libertarian, you are either deeply confused or spouting disingenuous garbage. Factions of the left and right are tribal and use philosophy to hide the lust for state power. Libertarianism is anti-tribal by definition, respecting the sanctity of the individual as primary. You should do less rationalizing and more reflection.

        1. Scott if you are typical of the people who belong to the NRA I’m not sure how they have managed to become so powerful. The AR15 is just one small part away from becoming a M16. All you have to do is replace the selector switch with one used in the M16 and presto fully automatic. You used to be able to buy them. Bump-stock is almost as good. And if it not humane to use against a deer what makes it humane to use against a human? This is a weapon of war period. It was not meant to be in the hands of civilians but because the NRA owns the congress and the gun manufactures there are now in the general public.

    8. As a native New Yorker, I am appalled that such criticisms of Governor Cuomo falls upon his deaf deaf on the needs of his constituents. This man is a bigger jerk than his happily departed grinch of a father! We New Yorkers have been duped time and again by the assclowns that have infested our lower counties, and city. These parasites vote in these little stalinist turds as to create a utopian society of their own liking, and when they’re done; they’ll invade every other state and spew trash, until they gain control. They’re worse than rats! Thanks to them New York has become a duty to retreat state, in where you can’t even defend your own: person, family, friends, or property against criminal perpetration and grave bodily harm. If you choose to fight back, you can face criminal prosecution. So much for; Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. I love New York, but as far as these leeches are concerned; NEW YORK SUCKS!!!

    9. When I was about 25, I met a guy about 60 wearing a cast on his left arm. He looked like hell as he was a bit bent over and had thinning pepper hair. He was starring at me so I asked him “do we know each other”. “Naw” but you remind me of a big guy who broke into my house last Thursday. I backed up and held out both hands at waist level “Whoooaaa – it wasn’t me, I live way out east from here” – “Oh – I know” he responded. After that I was ready for a good story so I sat down at his table.

      Turns out he laid down after walking for a nap. He fell asleep and only woke when he heard an unfamiliar noise. Since his wife had passed he lived alone, so he grabbed his skeet gun and laid it along side himself . ” I was gonna wait and just lay there, but I was scared he’d burn the place or steal some of Letta’s things”. SO he yelled “Get out or I’ll call the police” several time. Then this big looming guy ran to his door and then said “I’ll choke the shit out of you”. Then this old guy lifted the Kreighoff over and under skeet gun and fired two #7 3″ magnums to this guys neck and left shoulder. He said the blood spray hit virtually every surface in the bedroom and when the guy hit the floor his right ear and nose were up against his right shoulder and most of his neck center and left was gone.

      He went on. “I’m living at the motel out by the Catfish place on Summer Av next to that real shady office park. I can’t move back to the house till next Tuesday after the police and contractor do their things.” I asked what the guy was after and the old guy said “I never figured it out, but he left with less than he came in with.

      AMEN – I will not keep a loaded shotgun in my house but have a Beretta 92 and S&W 686 with Hornaday Critical Defense and Critical Duty loads ready by the bed and an LCP with Critical Defense in the kitchen. One of the cops who I see at the Quik Trip down the street always says “Don’t defend your home like a nice guy or you’ll die like one.

    10. Quite simply, act like a convicted felon and carry anyway. They ignore the law, you should have the same choice. Just a thought.

      1. The second amendment does not exclude anyone from gun ownership. It is an inalienable right and the amendment affirms that God given right. The taking away of rights was just a ploy to slowly and systemically remove YOUR rights by eliminating those rights of small groups of people under the guise of a safer society. That of course never comes true. The truth is the reasoning behind this is to protect politicians and demean you to servitude. They fear felons because they fear up rise. Lets face it. Most people are too cowardly to revolt but who would? The person already hold the law in distain.

        1. Victor, very true. Our Founding Fathers and all the rest that fought and died, for us to be living in the USA today as we know it, were all committing treason, against the British empire, with the punishment being death if caught. You are also correct in that most people didn’t fight, and many didn’t want to separate from the empire (Loyalists).

    11. COME TOGETEHER ALREADY AND FIGHT THIS MISERABLE EPIDEMIC. WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE UNITEF STATEA OF ANERICA. DO IT OR LOSE IT !
      Dom. V

    12. NYC is like a strain of the e-coli bacteria, it has spread into northern New Jersey which is more populated and whose elected officials control the entire state.. States policies across the nation are effected by ” urban sprawl”, which includes illegal immigrants. States should adopt a type of electoral college so a state with 67 counties can’t be subjugated by 7 counties who elect a governor who is supposed to represent all 67 counties..

      1. Is there any reason that the people don’t stand up to their elected officials once they realize that they are being duped? It is the elected official that is placed into a position to “represent” the people and work against them. I truly don’t want to hear that the general populace is afraid of hurting some hammerhead’s feeling. Elect them into office and watch them closely. It doesn’t take too long for them to realize just how much money they can make by stealing and getting kickbacks from evil doers. WAKE THE HELL UP AMERICA. This is OUR COUNTRY and we pay the elected officials.

        1. Two reasons come to mind (I’m sure there are many others): Apathy and greed. Apathy is self explanatory. Greed can be many things, but being on the dole, the segment of society that expects the government to take care of them from safety, to food, to money, to illegal immigration (IOW sanctuary cities and states). They don’t care what those in power do as long as their share comes in. They (the liberals) will vote in anyone who supports their agenda. As NYC and the state of CA are primarily populated (and run) by liberals, there aren’t enough opposed to chane a thing. With liberals endorsing violence and releasing violent illegtal aleins to prey on law abiding citizens, people are afraid to openly oppose them.

          They say they are fighting Marxism, yet the resort to Marxism without apparently knowing what Marxism is.

        2. @Bill E, What form would that “stand up to” take. The morning after the election, the politician does not need us or our vote. We have no control over that elected governmental employee. There is no standing up to be done.

    13. WoW !! Its amazing how ignorant people can make ignorant statements of the Ignorant people governing NYS! Wake to hell up stay on subject GUNS not rape ( but it shows ignorance to compare rape to guns) Who gives a dam about California or any other state your fighting for your rights in NYS. You can be a solution to stand up and fight for your rights and freedom or be stupid and point your finger at everything and every one else ! Grow up I don’t think I ould want some of you to have a gun with the inteligents some of you show !1 Just saying

      1. I recall Benjamin Franklin saying, “If we do not hang together, then we shall certainly all hang separately!” Though I may not have the quote exactly, the meaning is clear. I will assume the “rape” remark was aimed at me; it’s called an analogy, please look it up. Also, if you expect to be taken seriously in the future, you might want to work on your spelling and grammar.

    14. Cities; Concentrations of idiots who elect criminals to government.

      Cain built the 1st. Cancers on the face of God’s green earth, blue ones malignant.
      They are KILLING US!!

      When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe. Thomas Jefferson

    15. I too loved upstate NY when I lived there. Had a family farm that went back generations. I weighed the erosion of my rights and freedom against my roots and liberty won. Moved 20 years ago and whenever I go back to visit I become more grateful for my decision. You will never realize just how oppressive the New York government is in all forms until you move away. My advice is to go NOW before your property becomes worth even less. You are tilting at windmills trying to stay there and fight. Go now and enjoy the rest of your life in liberty.

    16. I really feel for you folks in N.Y. Like in California, there are people there with sense, but are subject to the edicts of liberal politicians. It makes me glad I live in Texas, even though I live in Austin, which has become the San Francisco of the southwest and the center of Texas liberalness. I feel like an outcast, but if I go down it will be fighting.

    17. The Sullivan Act is a gun control law in New York State that took effect in 1911. The law required licenses for New Yorkers to possess firearms small enough to be concealed. Possession of such firearms without a license was a misdemeanor, and carrying them was a felony. The act was named for its primary legislative sponsor, state senator Timothy Sullivan, a notoriously corrupt Tammany Hall politician.

      For handguns, the Sullivan Act qualifies as a may issue act, meaning the local police have discretion to issue a concealed carry license, as opposed to a shall issue act, in which state authorities must give a concealed handgun license to any person who satisfies specific criteria, often a background check and a safety class.

    18. Every thing I have just read is all very true from points to the rebutted. Being from New York City (shit hole) I have no choice in living here because of my occupation was stripped of my pistols and rifle/shotguns from this self centered police department for failing to report an incident, an incident where I was the complataint. ABSOLUTELY COMMICLE ! We need to hold TOGETER and fight strong and not rely on the next person to cast a vote that we think is an automatic win. The last time we did that NYC had mayor named David Dinkins who still till today didn’t know what his job was.

    19. The problem is a criminal offense whether it’s a judge, officer of the court or legislators local state and federal. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are what they are for one thing, to protect the people from oppression and tyranny whether it’s a majority or one man. This government is not a democracy where the majority rules it’s a republic with individual rights and liberty given by God not government. People need to be charged with treason if they don’t follow the rule of law that’s the only way to insure our freedom and rights. Their ignorance or manipulation of law is no excuse treason is treason.

    20. I moved from CA to NV in 2009 due to high taxes, Dem politicians and anti-gun laws which were increasing all the time. The problem we now have here in NV is that so many liberal East Coasters who voted Dem all their lives, supported high tax politicians and anti-gun legislation are now retiring and moving over here for the zero tax benefits. The big problem is that they haven’t given up their liberal voting ways and have changed the State from strong conservative to lib-socialist. I’m now considering a move to AZ which does have some State taxes but so far has remained mostly conservative, with the best 2nd Amendment record in America. As a retired military guy, it goes against everything that I swore to uphold and defend for 28 years active duty to put up with a constant outpouring of socialist Bravo Sierra!

      1. You have illustrated the main reason we can’t just move away from the leftists; eventually, after they’ve ruined your old home, they follow you. Sometimes, a tactical withdrawal is the only option, but it’s never the end of the matter.

      2. Ric, thank you for your service. This is the fight of our lives, and we are not asking for anything new. We are just trying to get back what has been taken from us. Before committing to AZ, check out retirement living.com

      3. Hi Ric. My dad retired in AZ in the year 2000. He used to live in CA. He is happy there. Do not skip the city of “Anthem” in your research on AZ. It’s north of Phoenix and a world away better in class.

    21. Moving for many, probably the majority is not nearly as easy as many seem to think. For those who have worked and built a pension with a company and are not far from retirement, pulling up stakes can be difficult. Finding work in a new area, or any area if you are over 50 is difficult unless you have skills that are in high demand. Moving involves far more than leaving family and friends behind.

      The problem, “as I see it”, is the conservatives don’t get out and vote as a block. That may not be true in a state with a huge city like NYC that has the population to RULE their desires and over rule the rest of the state. Add to that a corrupt governing block and the deck is really stacked.

      Michigan WAS ruled by the automotive cities and empire, but planned obsolescence along with huge wages and retirement packages granted to the union workers, compounded by economical imports built to last turned out to be the downfall of the US automotive industry. Many of those cities have lost half or more of their populations and they no longer have the voting power they once held. Skilled workers left the state in droves, making it very difficult to restart the industry. It’s been estimated they are short over a 100,000 skilled workers.

      Many younger people with, or with out degrees can’t find work because they are unwilling to go where the work is available.

      I quit work after more than 26 years to get a 4 year degree. I graduated in 1990 and started on my masters. A company called me up and offered me a job, in a time when jobs were scarce. That ended my quest for a masters even though it was essentially free.

    22. Kansas, don’t worry if you’ve never heard of it, cannot find it on a map or refer to it as “fly over land”, is very lenient about many gun related issues. While they do require a few hours of supervised education and some time at a gun range prior to purchasing a gun from a gun dealer (gun shows etc have very looser parameters). I have both an open carry and a concealed carry for all the guns I have. There is some discussion that this privilege be made reciprocal with other states who have the same laws which would make driving-we do a lot of that out here-a lot easier when I have to go look at some wells in Oklahoma and vice versa.

      I lived in New York forty years ago and wouldn’t move back if you gave me the whole St. Regis Hotel as my home. We’d welcome anyone from other places to come give us a look/see but, please, keep the criticism to a minimum. We know our weather is lousy, that “cultural events” are few but…if you live on Staten Island and sell your home, the six or seven hundred thousand dollars you may get will buy you something with three or four thousand square feet, plus a basement and two car garage and, possibly a swimming pool in your large back yard.

      I think I’ll get my S&W .50 out and polish while I watch my Alma Mater, USC play Ohio State. If nothing else, OSU has a terrific marching band.

    23. The Second Amendment stands on its own. The Supreme Court is under Constitutional Authority and so Heller is nice but not definitive. This overreaches the power of the SCOTUS. This is how we are being duped.

    24. UNITED STATES CODE, TITLE 42, SECTION 1983
      
Every person who, under color of any statute ordinance, regulation, custom, or by usage, of any State or Territory, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress. EVERY PERSON SHALL BE LIABLE IN AN ACTION AT LAW SUIT IN EQUITY NO EXCLUSION FOR JUDGES BY ANY ACT OF CONGRESS.
      https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/civil-rights/federal-civil-rights-statutes

      Title 18, U.S.C., Section 241

      Conspiracy Against Rights

      This statute makes it unlawful for two or more persons to conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person of any state, territory or district in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him/her by the Constitution or the laws of the United States, (or because of his/her having exercised the same).
      It further makes it unlawful for two or more persons to go in disguise on the highway or on the premises of another with the intent to prevent or hinder his/her free exercise or enjoyment of any rights so secured.
      Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to ten years, or both; and if death results, or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years, or for life, or may be sentenced to death.

      Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242
      Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law

      This statute makes it a crime for any person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom to willfully deprive or cause to be deprived from any person those rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution and laws of the U.S.
      This law further prohibits a person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation or custom to willfully subject or cause to be subjected any person to different punishments, pains, or penalties, than those prescribed for punishment of citizens on account of such person being an alien or by reason of his/her color or race.
      Acts under “color of any law” include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the bounds or limits of their lawful authority, but also acts done without and beyond the bounds of their lawful authority; provided that, in order for unlawful acts of any official to be done under “color of any law,” the unlawful acts must be done while such official is purporting or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. This definition includes, in addition to law enforcement officials, individuals such as Mayors, Council persons, Judges, Nursing Home Proprietors, Security Guards, etc., persons who are bound by laws, statutes ordinances, or customs.
      Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to one year, or both, and if bodily injury results or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire shall be fined or imprisoned up to ten years or both, and if death results, or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

      “The court’s decision in District of Columbia v. Heller clearly stated that arms in common use for lawful purposes are protected by the Second Amendment and thus cannot be subject to an outright ban”. Justice Scalia

      1. Imprisonment as a result of an illegal law that goes against the Constitution is included in Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242 – Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law. What that means is government is bound by the same laws. But the only problem is the crooked court systems recognition of it. Constitutional Law means nothing to liberal judges just look at Gay marriage ruling by SCOTUS or Roe V Wade and even the 2nd Amendment 1 Vote from a criminal court overturning a right?

    25. New York is not the only state run by bozo’s, there is also Kalifornia, actually we got the bozo’s that escaped the clutches of New York, they now serve in our legislature much to the detriment of our citizens including me. Its always an unknown to see what these bozos are going to come with next.

      1. Yes, unfortunately California is run by the Socialistic, open borders Democrats. It’s not only the gun rights they keep heaping more regulations on, it’s also immigration. This new year California is now a Sanctuary State, thanks to Brown and company. Last year California spent 25 Million on illegal immigrants (law breakers) providing them with Free Education, healthcare, food and other social benefits. Then Gov. Brown raises the gas tax and DMV fees supposedly to fix our infrastructure…we are already taxed for that. If he spent the 25 Million on repairs instead of aiding law breakers he wouldn’t have needed to increase the taxes. All these Democrats need to be either voted out, sent to jail, or in the case of the DOJ here…fired. Unfortunately too many voters here are receiving some type of government subsidy and so they vote for Democrats.

          1. I live in CA “BJI” and I can say we spent 25 million in 2017 on illegal immigration costs protecting illegals. You know, their rights, trying to keep them from getting deported. That sort of thing. Not 25 million that should of been spent kicking their asses out of the country. This firgure is well documented in numerous news sources.

    26. If you look at the map ,of n.y.s., you will notice a chunk of land pushing out into the ocean. That chunk is called LONG ISLAND One county (SUFFOLK) has a lot of open space and a lot of hunters , Many voted against the convention for the simple reason ( SCOPE MEMBERS INCLUDED) , To have voted yes would have put , what is left of our second amendments in GRAVE DANGER. Albany could have (AND WOULD HAVE) changed every SECOND AMENDMENT law on the books.

    27. All 150 New York State Assembly seats are up for election in 2018, all 63 New York State Senate seats are up for election in 2018. Whoever voted in favor of the SAFE Act must be thrown out regardless of the other votes they cast [most of them have also cast votes to steal our money…how about the $50 New York City Tax on our 2-Year Vehicle Registration that goes to the NYC Metropolitan Transit Authority due to corruption in NYC Transit System (as well as the $12.50 tax on our drivers licenses) even though one may not live in NYC or use the transit system the $50 is due every 2 years (and $12.50 NYC MTA Tax is due at driver license renewal). This is how the NYS Senate and NYS Assembly solved the corruption, they taxed non-NYC motor vehicles and non-NYC dweller drivers licenses]. Those 68 New York City Assemblymen/women go up to Albany and vote as a corrupt welfare block stealing our money and civil rights and must be voted out (as well as any others throughout the State and Long Island that voted “Yea”-SAFE Act).

    28. I hear some of you guys who are saying to just move but if you sit back and think about it—if everybody ran from a fight we wouldn’t even have a country.

      We the people of New Yorkistan are abused, insanely overtaxed, and run by politicians only looking out for themselves and have learned to operate like a well oiled organized crime group out of NYC with the help of the unions state wide…

      We just lost the opportunity to end this crap because we had a call for a state constitutional convention on our ballot (something that only comes up on our ballot ever 20 years) but the corrupt politicians used the big unions bosses and fear to make all their sheeple members afraid that they might lose their taxpayer funded pensions and everybody had their “vote no” signs and stickers out – It was overwhelmingly shot down like 75/25 so the opportunity to actually look at and tweak the way we run this state and the ability to STOP the corruption that has been taught to all of the people in Albany by scumbags like “Teflon” Sheldon Silver for the last couple generations wont be ended anytime soon.

      Anyway, there has been a movement to save the rest of us from NYC for some time http://www.newamsterdamny.org/ but without that convention its all but a endless uphill battle to restore our great state. NYC can sink in the ocean along with Commiefornia as far as I care but I love my neighbors in places like Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, and all the hundreds of rural communities I have visited because they are all filled with tons of moral, hard working, and caring people– many of which are very patriotic, big time hunters, and spend a lot of their free time shooting. Not that im a masochist but even if I put family aside, I’ve been to a lot of other places in this country and I havent seen many places with better people—I dont want to leave that behind- I just want to see my state free from these oppressors.

      1. Although I can see your point about running from a fight Bill, I also think that trying to fight an embedded, corrupt system is akin to spinning your wheels. There were over 16 million permits reported last year…16.3 million to be exact (Crime Prevention Resource Center, July 19, 2017). That’s not counting the one’s that enjoy Constitutional Carry or that own guns but have yet to get permits. Hopefully, we may see a time when the Constitution commands the adherence it was meant to have but until then, it wouldn’t hurt to build stronger states & regions that support our rights & let the blue states slowly burn their bridges, because we will gain more support as the years progress. People are just getting tired of this liberal bullshit.

        1. not to mention that I have family who have pensions and health policies that only pay out if they remain within the walls of NYS. This type of crap happens because of the corruption in DC and places like Albany and the Unions and insurance company back room deals negotiating BS contracts where policies & bene’s are all but worthless outside of the state— therefore imprisoning retirees here for life to guarantee continued payment of their high taxes to the state, high premiums to insurance companies, continued worship of freedom hating leaders like King Cuomo, and the continued enslavement of the rest of the family unless they are willing to bust up the family and leave members behind (which most conservative and generally moral people will not). Like I said- “a well oiled organized crime group”

          1. As I recall, there is a federal law that your retirement is yours. I worked at three different companies over my working life. The retirement I earned at the first, was added to the second and that total was added to the third.

            It seems to me that the NYC requirement that the retired should, by law, be able to move and take their retirement with them.

            1. @Roger H, Yes, there was a movement by the greedy states to apply their income tax provisions to a retirement income stream that had been earned in their state. Many persons had earned retirements from various companies in various states. With so many states taxing a person in that situation, there was little left for the federal government, and also the retiree. So Congress stepped in to prevent that. I don’t recall the Act, but you are correct.

    29. I hate New York I am stuck here for about 2 more years. I just want live and then die a free man but not in this shit hole city

      1. NYC is like a strain of the e-coli bacteria, it has spread into northern New Jersey which is more populated and whose elected officials control the entire state.. States policies across the nation are effected by ” urban sprawl”, which includes illegal immigrants. States should adopt a type of electoral college so a state with 67 counties can’t be subjugated by 7 counties who elect a governor who is supposed to represent all 67 counties..

    30. Yes, you can move to a gun friendly state. I moved from California to North Carolina. It was refreshing to be back in a state that follows the 2nd Amendment. Yes, it was hard to leave my family and friends. Yes, it was worth it.

      1. I wouldn’t bet the ranch on NC either. The State is being overrun by Yankees (and Stone Age aliens), and the kids are being brainwashed in schools from kindergarten through college. States along the Canuck Border, from ND to ID will hold out the longest.

        1. I’m a Michigan resident and our right to keep and bear arms will never be infringed period. that being said we do have a problem also it’s liberal Detroit and surrounding areas they have hindered some of our hunting rights like wolf hunting? Animal rights organisations are nearly as bad as any anti-gun group because there real agenda is to eliminate hunting period, so watch who you donate to.

          1. The PROBLEM with fighting big “anything”, be it industry, government, organizations, or corruption: They have money, lots of money to fight the little guy. In CA even the courts are liberal, juries are maned by liberals, the population is overwhelmingly liberal making it difficult if not impossible to change. Look at the politicians from CA. They are the worst examples of humanity, yet they are elected for term after term after term.

            One group was discussing that problem and how to change it, when a poster from CA asked if any of us had considered “that’s the way we want it”

            Yes, many of these laws of cities, townships, counties, and states are unconstitutional, but you basically have to break one, suffer the consequences, and then take it to court for a jury trial. If you win…you are faced with the cost of appeals, and possibly years of going through the court system which may be highly biased, which may take hundreds of thousands of dollars. If in a liberal state such as NY or CA, the courts tend to be liberal, some like the 9th district in CA are way left and end up with most of their rulings being overturned. That’s heartening until you realize the cost of appealing that ruling.

            To fight these policies takes a lot of money, time, and usually the backing of several large organizations.

            1. The sad fact is if a court doesn’t follow the Constitution it’s unlawful no matter the outcome. It’s Treason and should be crushed like the criminal element it truly is. That’s where we the people have done nothing to these criminals there defense is there interpretation of the Constitution and bill of Rights. It’s time to stand with and defend the Constitution or we all will die with out it along with our rights. .

    31. You aren’t alone in having an urban area dictate the outcome of our state. Virginia is the same. If we could transfer the counties around DC to become part of DC the rest of the state would be able to over come the liberal Richmond, University of Virginia, Tidewater (Newport News, Hampton, Norfolk, VA. Beach, Chesapeake) area . They, with their greater numbers, out voted the rest of the state.

    32. Moving out of any state is very easy. Just put one foot in front of the other and keep moving. I am sure there are plenty of U-Haul locations throughout New York.

    33. Welcome to my world. However, we need to take a little deeper look. How did those urban centers become such bastions of Socialism and Technocracy to begin with? For the Northeast, I have little explanation other than to speculate that it was the result of high society’s fascination with Socialism and, later, the Nazi’s during the teens, twenties and thirties. Holllywood was guilty of Nazi worship as well, before the war, but the state that gave us Reagan was really ruined by the gradual exodus of East coast liberals looking for greener pastures. As they altered our political demographic, they inevitably managed to put in place the same sorts of politicians and policies that trashed their former homes.

      While we also have our population of hardcore defenders, the trend of conservatives who are able moving to friendlier surroundings, only to be replaced by immigrants from nations with no cultural tradition of respect for personal liberty, continues and is accelerating. This same trend is also accelerating in New York, I can only hope your state has greater success in reversing this trend. It has reached the point here that there really isn’t that much left to fight for. I think all of California will look like Detroit in another five years.

      With the new tax plan, an exodus of wealthy liberals will begin. Americans will need to be hypervigilant about their local politics, whereever these people settle. I’ve been looking at property in a few other states, and found that this has already been happening. Leftists from Silicon Valley have poured into southern Idaho, for example, attracted to the chip industry around Boise. They’ve just about turned Boise into another Seattle.

        1. @Clark, You have to be more specific than that. Boise and Seattle have a lot in common. Both are filled with Americans, if nothing else. You can’t just throw out some vague unexplained objection and expect to have credibility.

        2. Clark, have you ever been to Boise? That’s a serious question, because I haven’t. I’ve looked at Boise’s website, and found the UN “sustainable development” agenda written all over the city government. Every single native Idahoan I’ve spokent to, including the editor of Redoubt News, has told me that I will have to settle North of Moscow if I want to avoid the same leftist bull I’m living with here. What do you know that they don’t?

      1. That is the nail underneath the hammer. Once the ones who can no longer stand the over the top liberalism move, they move to places less under the thumb. The problem is they also bring the thumb mentality with them. Before you know it they have elected officials on the progressive side of politics and things begin to change. We don’t need liberal ideology invading where we have fought to keep our freedoms. We want to welcome our northern countrymen but please leave your liberal thinking where it belongs. Leave it behind you and do not put it on the U-Haul.

      2. “look like Detroit”
        In that city, like the rest of Michigan, the law abiding citizen lives with a “shall issue” concealed carry permit law. HOW IS THAT LIKE CAL???!!! With that permit you can go to any gun store and buy a gun WITH NO WAITING PERIOD!!! In Detroit and ALL of MI you can buy guns and ammo ON LINE and have ammo shipped TO YOUR HOME!!! YUP, JUST LIKE CALIFORNIA!!!

        1. And in California, I don’t have to negotiate a legal minefield of conditions to obtain a permit to buy a handgun in the first place, and then run the gauntlet again for the CCW, plus pay high fees designed to keep the people who most need a concealed handgun from getting one. I just have to live in a county with a Constitution friendly sheriff, and be satisfied with a very short list of auto pistols, or a revolver. This is a pointless comparison, much like discussing degrees of rape. Both states are violating our rights. This wasn’t what I was referring to anyway. I was talking about that city’s pathetic economic and physical condition, brought about by the same sort of leftist ideology. I didn’t mean to offend any natives, but what is, is. The California of my childhood is gone as well. When I look at what has replaced it, I feel like crying.

          1. In MI you do not need a ccw to purchase handguns, or any other over the counter firearm. You walk in, tell them what you want, there is the federal background check, but no other checks. Pay your money and take it home. No waiting period.

            1. “28.422 License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; nonresident; active duty status; forging application as felony; implementation during business hours.
              Sec. 2. (1) Except as otherwise provided in this act, a person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.”

              From the firearms section of the Michigan State Police website: http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-1878_1591_3503_4654—,00.html

              The link for firearms laws redirects to:
              http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf

            2. Handguns must be registered in MI AFTER the purchase, but purchasing one is no different than purchasing a rifle or shotgun. The wording in the law makes it sound as if you must obtain thr lecense to purchase before you buy. You don’t! I have never had to obtain a license before purchasing a handgun.

              All those things are contained within the required registration AFTER you purchase. One litte sheet of paper, one signature. There is a strong move to elimanate the registration and all it contains.

            3. Roger, the President signed the NDAA last month with no mention of section 1021, which as far as I can tell is still in place. The U.S. military hasn’t “disappeared” any americans domestically (that I’m aware of), so nobody talks about it now. That could change. The failure of authorities to enforce (or enforce correctly) an unConstutional law does not make it any less of an abuse. I’m glad that Michigan residents appear to recognize abuse of their rights when they see it.

            4. Unfortunately we still have handgun registration. Orginizations are working to change that. On that we still have to fight the liberals and Democrats who strictly vote the party line. We have,y been able to vote them out because of the liberals in the cities and not enough conservatives bother to vote even though they outnumber the liberals.

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