New Legal Armor Piercing Handgun Round Announced ~ VIDEO

By John Crump

Dagny Dagger AP Armor-Piercing Ammo Ammunition
Dagny Dagger AP Armor-Piercing Ammo Ammunition

U.S.A.-(Ammoland.com)-In 1982 NBC ran a “Prime Time” special on Teflon-coated bullets labeling them “armored piercing” bullets. Their “expert” claimed that the Teflon increased the bullet's penetration power by 20%. The news show argued that these bullets were a danger to police. In this special, NBC created the term “cop killer” for all armor-piercing bullets.

The truth of the matter was that Teflon did not increase the penetration power at all. In fact, Teflon cut down on the penetration power of the round. The Teflon was used to improve the life of the gun owner’s barrel, but this was in 1982 and the World Wide Web didn't exist to correct that wrong.

People were not as skeptical as they are now, and the confidence of the truthfulness of the mainstream media was high. The alternative media was just a blip on the radar. It only existed in mailings from small organizations that didn't have the capital to reach the masses.

Anti-gun advocates used this mischaracterization of Teflon-coated bullets to push for the banning of armor piercing rounds for “the safety of law enforcement officers.

In August of 1986 HR 3132 — PL 99-408 was passed by Congress and signed by President Reagan. The new law would ban any handgun round that’s core consisted of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium. It would also prohibit any handgun round whose jacket weights more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

The public was banned from access to armored piercing handgun rounds. That is until now.

A libertarian aerospace engineer named Austin Thomas Jones didn't like the fact that the government had access to the armored piercing handguns rounds, but the government prevented the general public from owning them. He viewed the law as tyrannical.

Jones has designed soft armor for combat sports. He developed micrometeoroid shielding for soft-bodied spacecraft such as modules for the International Space Station. Micrometeoroid moves at speeds that far exceeds that of bullets, and the strength of the material must be far superior to that of soft body armor.

The work of Defense Distributed on 3D printed firearms inspired Jones to take action to use science to defeat the armored piercing bullet ban. He read through the law and noticed that only certain metals were banned from use in bullets. He thought he could defeat draconian law by simply finding a material that wasn’t banned by the law and designing a superior projectile.

Atlas Arms was born. Much like Defense Distributed, Atlas Arms is a non-profit. It takes its name from the iconic book “Atlas Shrugged” by Ayn Rand. Rand is a hero to many people and one of the founding voices of the modern libertarian movement.

He recruited Mike Crumling to the project. Crumling was the gunsmith that designed and built the structural cartridges that was used in 3D printed firearms. At the time of joining the project, Crumling was working on other 3D printed firearms endeavors.

The next person that Jones recruited to the team of rebel libertarians was an astronomical data scientist named Lauren. Lauren uses data processing and analysis to infer object properties and characteristics. Her skill set would become critical to the project.

Jones was able to convince a mechanical materials engineer named George that he needed to fight back against tyrannical gun control. George works on aerospace and medical components such as prosthetics. These fields require the use of lightweight yet durable materials. His skill set was invaluable to the team.

With the team assembled the next step was to determine the core of the round. The team knew what materials they couldn't use, so they started an analysis of other viable materials. In the past few years there has been an explosion of new metal alloys and research within material engineering.

The material would have to satisfy two factors that would make it a viable choice for Altas Arms. The first the material couldn't be cost prohibited. The second thing is that it must be readily available to the general public since one of the goals of the project is to make it as DIY-friendly as possible.

Jones and company landed on an unnamed uncommon metal alloy. The material is still a closely guarded secret until all testing is complete to ensure they give the public the safest thing possible.

“We will be releasing loading data,” Jones told me. “This will allow people to reload this ammunition at home themselves. We do not want to release any information that could possibly hurt the end-user.”

The current law does not ban the material that Altas Arms chose. The new material also offers better performance than the metals that are illegal for use in a core of an old armor-piercing handgun rounds.

“The metal alloy is strong,” Jones told me. “it is significantly harder and stronger than the materials that body armor is made out of.”

The team wanted to increase the penetration power of their new round, but also did not want the round to underperform when the target was not in body armor. Their goal was to produce a hybrid round. They used their combined engineering skills to craft a unique design to the core which looks similar to a dagger. The jacket designed to expand and fragment in soft nonarmored targets.

Dagny Dagger AP Armor-Piercing Ammo Ammunition

The shape of the round inspired Jones to name it the Dagny Dagger. Currently, Atlas Arms will be producing the Dagny Dagger in 9mm. This 9mm round will be able to defeat all level III body armor. After the test phase Atlas Arms plans to offer the Dagny Dagger in 10mm/.40SW, 5.56, .308, and possibly 5.7.

The target price for The Dagny Dagger is $2 per round. Jones believes with more research and design changes as well as the ability to buy the materials in large quantities that Atlas Arms will be able to cut the price in half to $1 per round.

But this endeavor isn't about making money for Jones. It is about fighting back and making gun control obsolete which is the same goal as Defense Distributed. In the same vein as releasing the 3D gun files online, Atlas Arms will make their designs open source to the general public. The will allow anyone with the will and the means to produce the rounds including home reloaders. Within the year after Atlas Arms carries out all safety testing, all data will be released to the world.

“I want to publish everything open source,” Jones told me. “I want to give it to the public to ensure that it is harder to suppress.”

Jones is probably right about the government suppressing his ideas. I talked to one designer, who does not want to be named because he still deals with the government, who came up with another workaround of the armor piercing bullet ban years ago. This time the designer owned a for-profit company and submitted his design for a patent.

The federal government swooped in and said they would grant the patent, but also gave him the condition that he would only be allowed to sell to the federal government, and they were not interested in buying the round. Because of his other dealings with the federal government, he decided not to challenge them on the stipulation.

Que the FAKE News Attack

Jones will probably face a lot of backlash from anti-gun groups and people in the government who are not gun friendly. Jones is unconcerned with the possible backlash but does think that the government will try to amend the law to ban the new round.

“If they don't like what I'm doing so what,” Jones told me. “What I am doing isn't illegal. I did it in a way that it is not illegal. They will try to amend the definition of armor-piercing bullets. Just like we defeated their imagination when they wrote the law the first time, we will defeat their imagination again when they rewrite the law.”

Atlas Arms has other more ambitious projects planned for the future. They chose to start with this project because of its feasibility. All their projects have a single goal in mind. That goal is to make all gun control obsolete by using technology and disseminating information to the public before it can be shut down.

“I started with this because it is simpler than some of the more radical stuff I have planned later. The design and creations of this round were by no means simple, but the stuff we have planned will be harder. The goals of all the projects are to make it harder for the government to enforce gun control.”

Atlas arms will also be the first third-party group to develop software for the Ghost Gunner 2 which I own and have reviewed in the past. The Ghost Gunner 2 is a product of Defense Distributed who rose to fame when they produced the Liberator. The Liberator was the first all 3D printed firearm.

Atlas Arms has started “Kick Starter like” campaign to raise $30,000 to complete the testing of the round. They will use all capital raised for future prototyping, body armor, ballistics gel, and other expenses. Most importantly the money will be used to keep the ATF, state and federal regulators at bay.

All donations are tax deductible. I donated for the simple reason I like the idea of taking a deduction on my taxes to make gun control obsolete.

Readers can check out the Dagny Dagger at www.gundynamics.com/products/atlas-arms-dagny-dagger


About John CrumpJohn Crump

John is a NRA instructor and a constitutional activist. He is the former CEO of Veritas Firearms, LLC and is the co-host of The Patriot News Podcast which can be found at www.blogtalkradio.com/patriotnews. John has written extensively on the patriot movement including 3%'ers, Oath Keepers, and Militias. In addition to the Patriot movement, John has written about firearms, interviewed people of all walks of life, and on the Constitution. John lives in Northern Virginia with his wife and sons and is currently working on a book on leftist deplatforming methods and can be followed on Twitter at @crumpyss, on Facebook at realjohncrump, or at www.crumpy.com.

  • 26 thoughts on “New Legal Armor Piercing Handgun Round Announced ~ VIDEO

    1. Someone in the House must have caught wind of this. Look up H.R. 1297 for the 2019-2020 session. The current definition they want to add to is this one… I.R.C. § 5845(a)

    2. I look at this not as EDC ammo, but as SHTF ammo. I feel confident that if the civil war with the leftist and ANTIFA ever goes hot that they will have body armor. I would like to know I am prepared for that In an SHTF event if I am still around when it happens. If and when this hits the market I will plan on getting some. As always, “Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.” I’ll run a few mags through my pistols and the PCC to make sure it runs right and stash the rest for use in the event of social unrest.

      1. @HDD: The left do not have the brains to buy body armor. Most of those that do will get II-IIA or used IIIA foreign made units.

    3. Perfect!!! Forget about whether you need it or want it. Forget about doing something just because you can. So let’s assume this stuff will defeat soft body armor for the moment. What are you going to use it for? Who wears soft body armor? Do you? Does the guy breaking into your house? Does the car jacker? Noooooooo, they don’t. Only cops in your experience wear soft body armor. Perfect for Nancy and Chuck to grab on to is all this is good for. No folks, this stuff is about as useful and necessary as tits on a bull.

      1. When you consider the purpose of the Second Amendment, armor piercing ammunition should be available to citizens. Any small arms and ammunition the government has, we should have.

      2. I can show you numerous police reports of drug dealers and other felon criminals that all were wearing body armor. Do you happen to recall a sort of pivitol event that changes LE across the country and world in many cases to all carrying AR-15s in there trunks for in cab racks? Recall a little shooting in a bank robbery in Los Angeles. Recall a couple guys loaded end to end in body armor that LE could not take down and in fact a private citizen with a deer rifle that ALL can go thru any soft body armor.

        Fact is you can not have it both ways. On one hand LE is saying they need AP rounds and high powered rifle carbines in every car because criminals are using body armor and then in the same breath state the only reason for AP rounds is to shoot LE as they are the only ones that use body armor.

        First off anyone can get body armor. If criminals were so stupid then they would not be much of a issue but they are not. sure the corner crackhead might be but real pros or hard core drug dealers are very very smart. Think they aren’t go spend some time speaking to jail guards of the ingenious things convicts come up with.

        Anyone that actually understands body armor and bullet tech knows what total BS any restriction of AP rounds is. Do you know what will penetrate any non ceramic body armor? Velocity and frontal surface area i.e bullet tip. Thats it. Take any mono copper or lead core copper jacket and jack its velocity up enough and it will zip right thru even hard plate IIIA. The 50 gr copper hollow point from civil defense goes over 2K FPS even from a 3.5″ barrel. It will zip right thru IIIA. It has a huge HP but itt also has very high vel.

        ALL rifle ammo goes thru any IIIA or under armor. Any of the larger capacity cases rifle rounds will zip thru all but IV or IV + ST armor. Not only that but anyone can own AP rounds IF they can only be used in a rifle. Right now that means any bullet caliber larger than the 5.56/.223.

        I would also like to point out that no NIJ body armor is rated to stop anything more powerful thatn a 308/3006 and even in those only specific bullets at specific vel thresholds. No vests are rated for say hi vel 6mm cartridges etc.. Why because VELOCITY is what defeats body armor Give me a solid tungsten steel bullet say 5.56 or 308. and any pistol case. But load it say at a slower vel and it will not go thru a poly III plate as they work by friction against the bullet bot breaking up the bullet or deformation. So take a true AP bullet in 5.56 but load it so it hits @ 2899 fps and its not going thru the UHDPE III plate. Again getting thru armor is about surface area and impact vel more than bullet construction. Bullet construction can allow for a reduction in vel and still penetrate but vel is ALWAYS a critical needed factor.

        See the whole AP illegal crap happened when people trusted the press and there was no alternative new like the internet has created. Now we know politicians and new people are some of the worst liars and selfish people in the world night next to lawyers and IRS agents. IT all started with “COP Killer” ammo which we have the liars of NBC to thank for that. They lied saying teflon coating increased AP ablity by 20% when it actually reduced it by 10-11% and was added to protect bores not penetration. They also terms it cop killer yet no LE has EVER been shot with any restricted ammo despite what maybe depicted by hollywood in ever show or movie they get a chance like Lethal Weapon III.

        So some FACTS for the Ignorant ones :

        Any traditional bullet given enough vel will zip thru ALL soft armor and even plate armor. But the vel to go thru soft and lower plate is still below HP rifle vels sub 3000 fps. There are numerous pistol rounds that zip right thru armor that are commercial available and have been for many years all using traditional lead core copper jacket as well as solid copper bullets all the greenies want us going to.

        Anyone can purchase AP rounds for any cartidge that except for weird custom jobs is a rifle round. What got the AR-15 in trouble was all the pistol conversions. Yet the idea of a pistol is concealablity and why its more regulated. Fact is no AR is really concealable like say a 1911 or glock or really any traditional pistol be it semi or wheel gun. ever notice how 50 BMG AP and 308 and 3006 is all legal to own. Its only the 5.56/223 that falls iinto could be fired from handgun.

        Whats stupid about all this is its illegal to fire AP ammo from a handgun. OK fine so it you do it you go to jail. So why do we need to make it illegal to also own any bullet that could be used in a handgun if it can also be used in a rifle. So now the rifle is restricted because it COULD be used in handgun which its already illegal to do. Why should firing AP ammo from a handgun be illegal anyways? Is it not already capital offense to shoot a cop? So if you kill a cop you get the death penalty. So please explain how telling a person already willing to shoot a cop that he will be getting another penalty for using AP rounds? D not forget anyone with a drill press can make any handgun round into an AP round. Drill a hole add a small piece of steel or titanium or tungsten welding rod into the drilled hole. You now have an AP round.

        FACT Definition of CRIMINAL: One that does not follow or chooses to break laws. So how does a LAW stop a criminal who by its own defintion is someone with total disregard for the law. Anyone can make bullets out of ay material so its not as if you can restirct all iron alum etc. Same with guns the only law needed is one of age for competency mental health etc and then its illgeal to comment any crime with a firearm. What other law is needed? You are either a person that does not follow the law or you are a person that does. If you do not then the law does not mean anything anyways and if you are extra laws only negatively effect those who choose to follow them.

        Thus laws as a basic tool to prevent crime have no effect on that. They can only just like LE personal to act after the fact and punish the law breaker. But all laws that restrict activity that does not infringe on otehrs rights only have the proactive effect of hunting and restricting the law abiding citizen.

        Its like people have lost there common sense. They see the gun as evil but its person. So if you put up a sign that says gun free zone. You stop ALL law abiding people from having a gun there who would by definition never use the gun for a crime to begin with. But it also tells every criminal hey I will be the only one with a gun if I choose to deliver the hate in that area. They also know cops only come when called and are only called after a crime is commented in 99% of cases.

        Question for all the anti gun etc people………When have you ever heard of someone robbing or stealing or assaulting people with a gun @ a shooting range? Nope does not happen. Why cause they KNOW for sure its one place everyone has a gun and there is basically zero gun violence. If you follow the train fo thought of the left where guns = violence and death a gun range should the most lethal unsafe most crime ridden area in the world. Yet it is actually the safest of all commercial businesses. People do not rob gun ranges. Gun stores yes but almost always when closed. Point is guns in law abiding hands lowers crime. No laws no matter how you write the will EVER PREVENT A CRIME. Just like Police. No matter what unless you have a cop in every home and ever place all the time will not prevent crime. But you know whats close or even better than a cop on every corner. Everyone that wants to own one and a law abiding mental fit person having one.

        So with all this stated what we an say is the main effect restrictive use laws have is preventing law abiding citizens of freedoms i.e restrictions. With only minor inconveniences in terms of sourcing to criminals who have every intention of breaking the law. No chance of preventing crime only increased punishment for those that do IF they get caught.

    4. So what is it?
      A solid copper bullet with some black coating?
      I’ll call this one bull shit, not telling what material they use strongly suggest that they want to get the money before people realise what they are doing.

    5. The sad thing about this is, all the “cop killer” hysterics did was get officers killed who might have otherwise survived. It taught would be cop murderers to take head shots. It’s much more about velocity and momentum than material anyway. Many standard rounds will penetrate armor of various ratings. A .22 magnum that won’t get through a level IIA vest when fired from a handgun, often will when fired from a rifle. IIIA with a plate will stop .308, but how well would it stand up to a monolithic solid from, say, a .416 Ruger? I fear this will simply reignite the issue, and give the hoplophobes a reason to try to ban ammunition based on energy or velocity. The truth is, any idiot with access to a lathe or mill can make AP ammunition, but when was the last time such ammo was used in a crime? I certainly can’t recall.

    6. Before carrying it look at your state laws. Many are written in a way that they don’t care what it’s made of but rather what it’s capable of. That being said I wouldn’t mind having a few boxes to “not carry”

    7. So the original branding of the cop killer bullets was improper and reckless, but the spirit of the legislation was to avoid these bullets being used against law enforcement. I don’t think this was the correct issue or product to take a stand on. The vast majority of the public could probably be trusted with these rounds but there is a small minority that we’ll use these against police.

      1. Jimmy, most rifle rounds will pierce the body armor most police wear. And then we have the AR-15 pistol that uses a rifle round, and the 5.7 that is a pistol round, but can also penetrate class 3 body armor (the type police use), so I don’t see any issue with this. I don’t believe criminals typically manufacture their ammunition, nor buy expensive ammo. Criminals already kill police without the aforementioned armaments, so your point is not valid, just emotional.

    8. Very interesting video, but for the sake of the hearing impaired like me, turn down the damn music, it is distracting and overcomes the spoken word too much. Good luck on the project and thank you for your 2nd AD support.

    9. If it gets on the radar the Dems will ban it in the House, and the GOP has become so lame they will likely go along with it. And as with bump stocks — I fear that Trump will sign it into law.

    10. As a legal gun owner, I don’t know how I feel about this. If the original intent of AP ammo was to pierce through body ammo worn by criminals, don’t you think that if they’re made legal, that criminals would be just as interested in using them to seriously wound or kill law enforcement?? I understand the logic behind trying to prove a point, but I think this is a little too far.

    11. About “cop Killers.” Back in the olden days I spoke with Dr. Kopsch (one of the letters in KTW ammo) about the Teflon. He told me like the author, it did nothing including lubing or protecting the barrel as the KTW ammo was close to pure (soft) copper. The secret was solid lighter weight bullets moving fast. About the Teflon, he told me “it was just a sales tactic,” looked and sounded cool. This stuff was restricted for police sale only and was designed to penetrate soft body armor that might be worn by criminals. Never has a KTW round been used to kill a cop. My testing back then (not a cop) showed the .357 would go through about 60 layers of Kevlar at 20 feet from a 4 inch revolver. I wonder what happens if this new round when fired from a polygonal barre–the KTWs and Other solid copper or copper alloy bullets don’t squeeze well and as H&K (Glock wasn’t around then) owners found, it will blow the barrel off so be careful with these in polys. Besides if/when these hit the shelves, better buy quick–there will be a way to make their possession federally real illegal and unfortunately anything that even remotely functions like them and that will be the real shame of it..

      1. Informative info John,thanks. As for buy quick, I hope to get some for reloading. I don’t know what loading data will be available, but time will tell.

      2. The original KTW ammo was made from a tungsten compound they called “Kennertium” which was both very hard and 50% denser than lead. Teflon was applied to improve penetration, and the entire unit was enclosed in a conventional short jacket. The original .38 special rounds had a 200 grain bullet moving at only 700 fps, but penetration was reported to be “far in excess” of conventional armor piercing rounds. Chamber pressure was ~14,000 psi. (all of the preceding came from a short article on page 230 in my 1970 Gun Digest.) I remember reading that in subsequent years costs rose and the rounds as originally made became prohibitively expensive, so they later changed to brass or bronze material at much higher velocity. (Yes, brass and bronze are different, I just don’t remember what alloy they switched to or what other changes they made.)

        The live KTW rounds were always sold to “police only” although for a time collectors could buy inert rounds for $1 – not exactly cheap in 1970. But metal-piercing ammo was always meant for police. In fact, my old Western Ammunition handbook – from 1947! – has info on metal piercing handgun ammo meant to be used BY POLICE on fleeing getaway cars, with pictures of holes in test cars showing the rounds would penetrate the driver’s seat if fired at the rear of the car.

      1. And the more answers we have the fewer questions will arise! More laws are never the answer. Repeal all gun laws, simply enforce existing laws against assault, rape, robbery & murder with or without any weapon.

    12. I just love this concept… and the article! I’m a email but don’t remember getting an email from GD about this.

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