By John Crump
U.S.A. –-(Ammoland.com)-In 1982 NBC ran a “Prime Time” special on Teflon-coated bullets labeling them “armored piercing” bullets. Their “expert” claimed that the Teflon increased the bullet’s penetration power by 20%. The news show argued that these bullets were a danger to police. In this special, NBC created the term “cop killer” for all armor-piercing bullets.
The truth of the matter was that Teflon did not increase the penetration power at all. In fact, Teflon cut down on the penetration power of the round. The Teflon was used to improve the life of the gun owner’s barrel, but this was in 1982 and the World Wide Web didn’t exist to correct that wrong.
People were not as skeptical as they are now, and the confidence of the truthfulness of the mainstream media was high. The alternative media was just a blip on the radar. It only existed in mailings from small organizations that didn’t have the capital to reach the masses.
Anti-gun advocates used this mischaracterization of Teflon-coated bullets to push for the banning of armor piercing rounds for “the safety of law enforcement officers.“
In August of 1986 HR 3132 — PL 99-408 was passed by Congress and signed by President Reagan. The new law would ban any handgun round that’s core consisted of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium. It would also prohibit any handgun round whose jacket weights more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
The public was banned from access to armored piercing handgun rounds. That is until now.
A libertarian aerospace engineer named Austin Thomas Jones didn’t like the fact that the government had access to the armored piercing handguns rounds, but the government prevented the general public from owning them. He viewed the law as tyrannical.
Jones has designed soft armor for combat sports. He developed micrometeoroid shielding for soft-bodied spacecraft such as modules for the International Space Station. Micrometeoroid moves at speeds that far exceeds that of bullets, and the strength of the material must be far superior to that of soft body armor.
The work of Defense Distributed on 3D printed firearms inspired Jones to take action to use science to defeat the armored piercing bullet ban. He read through the law and noticed that only certain metals were banned from use in bullets. He thought he could defeat draconian law by simply finding a material that wasn’t banned by the law and designing a superior projectile.
Atlas Arms was born. Much like Defense Distributed, Atlas Arms is a non-profit. It takes its name from the iconic book “Atlas Shrugged” by Ayn Rand. Rand is a hero to many people and one of the founding voices of the modern libertarian movement.
He recruited Mike Crumling to the project. Crumling was the gunsmith that designed and built the structural cartridges that was used in 3D printed firearms. At the time of joining the project, Crumling was working on other 3D printed firearms endeavors.
The next person that Jones recruited to the team of rebel libertarians was an astronomical data scientist named Lauren. Lauren uses data processing and analysis to infer object properties and characteristics. Her skill set would become critical to the project.
Jones was able to convince a mechanical materials engineer named George that he needed to fight back against tyrannical gun control. George works on aerospace and medical components such as prosthetics. These fields require the use of lightweight yet durable materials. His skill set was invaluable to the team.
With the team assembled the next step was to determine the core of the round. The team knew what materials they couldn’t use, so they started an analysis of other viable materials. In the past few years there has been an explosion of new metal alloys and research within material engineering.
The material would have to satisfy two factors that would make it a viable choice for Altas Arms. The first the material couldn’t be cost prohibited. The second thing is that it must be readily available to the general public since one of the goals of the project is to make it as DIY-friendly as possible.
Jones and company landed on an unnamed uncommon metal alloy. The material is still a closely guarded secret until all testing is complete to ensure they give the public the safest thing possible.
“We will be releasing loading data,” Jones told me. “This will allow people to reload this ammunition at home themselves. We do not want to release any information that could possibly hurt the end-user.”
The current law does not ban the material that Altas Arms chose. The new material also offers better performance than the metals that are illegal for use in a core of an old armor-piercing handgun rounds.
“The metal alloy is strong,” Jones told me. “it is significantly harder and stronger than the materials that body armor is made out of.”
The team wanted to increase the penetration power of their new round, but also did not want the round to underperform when the target was not in body armor. Their goal was to produce a hybrid round. They used their combined engineering skills to craft a unique design to the core which looks similar to a dagger. The jacket designed to expand and fragment in soft nonarmored targets.
Dagny Dagger AP Armor-Piercing Ammo Ammunition
The shape of the round inspired Jones to name it the Dagny Dagger. Currently, Atlas Arms will be producing the Dagny Dagger in 9mm. This 9mm round will be able to defeat all level III body armor. After the test phase Atlas Arms plans to offer the Dagny Dagger in 10mm/.40SW, 5.56, .308, and possibly 5.7.
The target price for The Dagny Dagger is $2 per round. Jones believes with more research and design changes as well as the ability to buy the materials in large quantities that Atlas Arms will be able to cut the price in half to $1 per round.
But this endeavor isn’t about making money for Jones. It is about fighting back and making gun control obsolete which is the same goal as Defense Distributed. In the same vein as releasing the 3D gun files online, Atlas Arms will make their designs open source to the general public. The will allow anyone with the will and the means to produce the rounds including home reloaders. Within the year after Atlas Arms carries out all safety testing, all data will be released to the world.
“I want to publish everything open source,” Jones told me. “I want to give it to the public to ensure that it is harder to suppress.”
Jones is probably right about the government suppressing his ideas. I talked to one designer, who does not want to be named because he still deals with the government, who came up with another workaround of the armor piercing bullet ban years ago. This time the designer owned a for-profit company and submitted his design for a patent.
The federal government swooped in and said they would grant the patent, but also gave him the condition that he would only be allowed to sell to the federal government, and they were not interested in buying the round. Because of his other dealings with the federal government, he decided not to challenge them on the stipulation.
Que the FAKE News Attack
Jones will probably face a lot of backlash from anti-gun groups and people in the government who are not gun friendly. Jones is unconcerned with the possible backlash but does think that the government will try to amend the law to ban the new round.
“If they don’t like what I’m doing so what,” Jones told me. “What I am doing isn’t illegal. I did it in a way that it is not illegal. They will try to amend the definition of armor-piercing bullets. Just like we defeated their imagination when they wrote the law the first time, we will defeat their imagination again when they rewrite the law.”
Atlas Arms has other more ambitious projects planned for the future. They chose to start with this project because of its feasibility. All their projects have a single goal in mind. That goal is to make all gun control obsolete by using technology and disseminating information to the public before it can be shut down.
“I started with this because it is simpler than some of the more radical stuff I have planned later. The design and creations of this round were by no means simple, but the stuff we have planned will be harder. The goals of all the projects are to make it harder for the government to enforce gun control.”
Atlas arms will also be the first third-party group to develop software for the Ghost Gunner 2 which I own and have reviewed in the past. The Ghost Gunner 2 is a product of Defense Distributed who rose to fame when they produced the Liberator. The Liberator was the first all 3D printed firearm.
Atlas Arms has started “Kick Starter like” campaign to raise $30,000 to complete the testing of the round. They will use all capital raised for future prototyping, body armor, ballistics gel, and other expenses. Most importantly the money will be used to keep the ATF, state and federal regulators at bay.
All donations are tax deductible. I donated for the simple reason I like the idea of taking a deduction on my taxes to make gun control obsolete.
Readers can check out the Dagny Dagger at www.gundynamics.com/products/atlas-arms-dagny-dagger
About John Crump
John is a NRA instructor and a constitutional activist. He is the former CEO of Veritas Firearms, LLC and is the co-host of The Patriot News Podcast which can be found at www.blogtalkradio.com/patriotnews. John has written extensively on the patriot movement including 3%’ers, Oath Keepers, and Militias. In addition to the Patriot movement, John has written about firearms, interviewed people of all walks of life, and on the Constitution. John lives in Northern Virginia with his wife and sons and is currently working on a book on leftist deplatforming methods and can be followed on Twitter at @crumpyss, on Facebook at realjohncrump, or at www.crumpy.com.
Someone in the House must have caught wind of this. Look up H.R. 1297 for the 2019-2020 session. The current definition they want to add to is this one… I.R.C. § 5845(a)
That’s precisely what we deserve for Allowing it.
I look at this not as EDC ammo, but as SHTF ammo. I feel confident that if the civil war with the leftist and ANTIFA ever goes hot that they will have body armor. I would like to know I am prepared for that In an SHTF event if I am still around when it happens. If and when this hits the market I will plan on getting some. As always, “Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.” I’ll run a few mags through my pistols and the PCC to make… Read more »
@HDD: The left do not have the brains to buy body armor. Most of those that do will get II-IIA or used IIIA foreign made units.
We can only hope that’s the case. We can only hope!
Before carrying it look at your state laws. Many are written in a way that they don’t care what it’s made of but rather what it’s capable of. That being said I wouldn’t mind having a few boxes to “not carry”
Are we so cowardly we obey “laws” that we KNOW have no legal power or authority (because there is no such thing as “unconstitutional law”)? If so, then we only have ourselves to blame and deserve every bit of tyranny we get). How about we just stop being a nation of cowards and make the rounds that we KNOW we have the Right to own? You only live under the tyranny you Allow.
Ronald Regan sure was one of our most anti 2a presidents. What a bafoon.
The sad thing about this is, all the “cop killer” hysterics did was get officers killed who might have otherwise survived. It taught would be cop murderers to take head shots. It’s much more about velocity and momentum than material anyway. Many standard rounds will penetrate armor of various ratings. A .22 magnum that won’t get through a level IIA vest when fired from a handgun, often will when fired from a rifle. IIIA with a plate will stop .308, but how well would it stand up to a monolithic solid from, say, a .416 Ruger? I fear this will… Read more »
Shoot for the nuts and face
Coming from 10 years of LE in what was 1 of the 10 most dangerous counties in Law Enforcement… I’ll tell you this… “bullet proof” anything is just a “if I screw up, this gives me a LITTLE bit of wiggle room”. I had 3 friends/Officers killed in less than 29 days at my agency. 2 were wearing vests.. 1 was not. Only the ONE who was not wearing a vest would have survived. Shootings are usually committed by stupid, lazy, poor degenerates. They buy a “gat” and whatever “bullets and clip it take” that poor grammar was intentional BTW.… Read more »
@AnotherLEO “The VAST majority of cops I know will be fighting ALONG SIDE the people… ” Indeed. There are some of us cautioning those who want to label all members of law enforcement as stooges to tyrants, not to do so because such a generalization is not true… Many Sheriffs and their departments, and many local officers are 2nd Amendment enthusiasts and supporters as well. It is important to remember that the power tripping bureaucrat who thinks a piece of metal gives authority to him to dictate the lives of people is not the average law enforcement officer, though they… Read more »
@Rev – I would like to add that “Patriots” targeting LEO – could flip remaining officers from friend to foe in a matter of seconds.
It is hypocritical to call for recognition of our rights and to be treated as individuals while expressing prejudice toward LEO at the same time. LEO is composed of individuals who are all different, regardless of all that binds them.
Finnky: “Officers”, like anyone else, will be treated as they allow me to treat them by how they conduct themselves. If you become a deadly threat then you will be treated as such no matter who you are.
@RoyD – Exactly how it should be, and point of what I was saying. Wearing a uniform does not automatically make someone an ally or a target. Judge everyone as an individual – though if assaulted by a group, each individual is guilty of the group’s behavior.
If it gets on the radar the Dems will ban it in the House, and the GOP has become so lame they will likely go along with it. And as with bump stocks — I fear that Trump will sign it into law.
About “cop Killers.” Back in the olden days I spoke with Dr. Kopsch (one of the letters in KTW ammo) about the Teflon. He told me like the author, it did nothing including lubing or protecting the barrel as the KTW ammo was close to pure (soft) copper. The secret was solid lighter weight bullets moving fast. About the Teflon, he told me “it was just a sales tactic,” looked and sounded cool. This stuff was restricted for police sale only and was designed to penetrate soft body armor that might be worn by criminals. Never has a KTW round… Read more »
Informative info John,thanks. As for buy quick, I hope to get some for reloading. I don’t know what loading data will be available, but time will tell.
The original KTW ammo was made from a tungsten compound they called “Kennertium” which was both very hard and 50% denser than lead. Teflon was applied to improve penetration, and the entire unit was enclosed in a conventional short jacket. The original .38 special rounds had a 200 grain bullet moving at only 700 fps, but penetration was reported to be “far in excess” of conventional armor piercing rounds. Chamber pressure was ~14,000 psi. (all of the preceding came from a short article on page 230 in my 1970 Gun Digest.) I remember reading that in subsequent years costs rose… Read more »
Doesn’t really bother me too much. If you can face shoot someone at 25 yards that should be good enough. If you cant, you need more, better practice.
RoyD: Don’t forget the knees either. Good for an instant takedown, no matter how high the perp might be. Even if they can’t feel pain at all, legs just won’t work without knees!
Knute: If I am going to bother to use deadly force it will most likely be deadly in effect. (I think either effect or affect can be used in this case.)
So what is it?
A solid copper bullet with some black coating?
I’ll call this one bull shit, not telling what material they use strongly suggest that they want to get the money before people realise what they are doing.
@Blackswan – Also suggests that they want to create a commercially viable product and get it into the public’s hands before legislators are able to react. If they knew what material to ban, even in today’s dysfunctional congress they’d amend AP-ban in a flash. Heck they’ll probably just pay WP to tell Trump to tell ATF to just ban them administratively – like bump stocks. Never mind letter-of-the-law, ATF has gone full touchy-feely-liberal and enforces laws based on what they feel the law should say.
Very interesting video, but for the sake of the hearing impaired like me, turn down the damn music, it is distracting and overcomes the spoken word too much. Good luck on the project and thank you for your 2nd AD support.
Sign me up, when can I grab a box?
As I said in the other article: Sounds like an answer in search of a question.
And the more answers we have the fewer questions will arise! More laws are never the answer. Repeal all gun laws, simply enforce existing laws against assault, rape, robbery & murder with or without any weapon.
I just love this concept… and the article! I’m a email but don’t remember getting an email from GD about this.
So the original branding of the cop killer bullets was improper and reckless, but the spirit of the legislation was to avoid these bullets being used against law enforcement. I don’t think this was the correct issue or product to take a stand on. The vast majority of the public could probably be trusted with these rounds but there is a small minority that we’ll use these against police.
That’s exactly how I feel
Jimmy, most rifle rounds will pierce the body armor most police wear. And then we have the AR-15 pistol that uses a rifle round, and the 5.7 that is a pistol round, but can also penetrate class 3 body armor (the type police use), so I don’t see any issue with this. I don’t believe criminals typically manufacture their ammunition, nor buy expensive ammo. Criminals already kill police without the aforementioned armaments, so your point is not valid, just emotional.
As a legal gun owner, I don’t know how I feel about this. If the original intent of AP ammo was to pierce through body ammo worn by criminals, don’t you think that if they’re made legal, that criminals would be just as interested in using them to seriously wound or kill law enforcement?? I understand the logic behind trying to prove a point, but I think this is a little too far.
**body armor
@Peter – Vast majority of criminals are just happy to have a gun and ammo – any gun and any ammo, sometimes not even compatible. For those criminals determined and knowledgeable enough to seek out these bullets and roll their own ammo – they will be imaginative enough to find other means if this is not available. Vast majority of this ammo would reside in owners SHTF stash, only fired for function tests. There would be those who carry it just in case they encounter an armored criminal and more who keep it loaded at home in case of home… Read more »
Perfect!!! Forget about whether you need it or want it. Forget about doing something just because you can. So let’s assume this stuff will defeat soft body armor for the moment. What are you going to use it for? Who wears soft body armor? Do you? Does the guy breaking into your house? Does the car jacker? Noooooooo, they don’t. Only cops in your experience wear soft body armor. Perfect for Nancy and Chuck to grab on to is all this is good for. No folks, this stuff is about as useful and necessary as tits on a bull.
When you consider the purpose of the Second Amendment, armor piercing ammunition should be available to citizens. Any small arms and ammunition the government has, we should have.
I can show you numerous police reports of drug dealers and other felon criminals that all were wearing body armor. Do you happen to recall a sort of pivitol event that changes LE across the country and world in many cases to all carrying AR-15s in there trunks for in cab racks? Recall a little shooting in a bank robbery in Los Angeles. Recall a couple guys loaded end to end in body armor that LE could not take down and in fact a private citizen with a deer rifle that ALL can go thru any soft body armor. Fact… Read more »
I would like to copy and paste this in EVERY anti 2A discussion I find. Well done sir… well done
@TimVA – Topping off the misleading info supporting “cop killer” ban – have heard that through at least the 80’s, FBI recommendation for police body armor was that it be able to stop whatever the cop was carrying. Reason being that the vast majority of police killed by gunfire were killed in takeaway shootings – losing their own gun and having it turned on them. How in the world does restricting honest gun owners do anything to change ammo in cop guns – which was primary risk cops faced? Both technical and training changes have made gun-grabs less common. First… Read more »
@Joe – If you read the article, it says that these bullets go through level III in pistol calibers. As a technical dweeb – I find that fascinating and simply seeing it would be reason enough.
@Joe, now you know better. This info is from 2000 and 2014, I’m sure if you look for it you’ll find more recent data. Bulletproof vests are in vogue on wrong side of law. https://old.post-gazette.com/regionstate/20000403vests2.asp James Holmes, the movie-theater shooter in Aurora, Colo., seems to have had this idea. According to Aurora’s police chief, Holmes opened fire wearing “a ballistic helmet, a tactical ballistic vest, ballistic leggings, a throat protector, and a groin protector.” A receipt indicates that Holmes bought a non-bullet-resistant assault vest, and law enforcement authorities, citing a judicial gag order, won’t say whether the vest on the… Read more »