Polymer80 Refuses California’s Subpoena To Turn Over Customer Information ~ VIDEO

Come and Take Them I Will Not Comply
The agency’s goals appear to be to obtain customer’s personal information. iStock

U.S.A.-(Ammoland.com)-The war on 80% frames continues heating as companies fight back against a rogue federal agency.

As AmmoLand News reported earlier, the ATF raided Polymer 80, seizing computer equipment over its “Buy, Build, Shoot” kits. The agency’s goals appear to be to obtain customer’s personal information. It is unknown precisely what information the ATF was able to retrieve since Polymer80 stored most customer information in the cloud. The company did not hand that access over to the ATF.

At the same time, Polymer80 received a subpoena from the state of California demanding that they turn over customer information. Polymer80 is refusing to comply with the subpoena and is committed to fighting back against the anti-gun state. Polymer80 attorneys told AmmoLand News that the company will fight against California’s legal request and is committed to protecting its customer’s information. The company is still selling and manufacturing 80% frames.

California is suing the ATF over 80% frames and 80% lower receivers., aka “Ghost-Guns”. The state believes that the ATF should consider these items firearms. Gun rights advocates point out that these products cannot fire a projectile and therefore cannot be considered a gun. It still falls on the user to finish the chunk of plastic or aluminum before it is a gun. There is also a long history of Americans making their firearms, and users can print a pistol frame with a 3D printer or simply buy the parts at Home Depot to make a shotgun. The law states that users do not have to serialize their DIY firearms.

The ATF still takes the stance that 80% frames and receivers are not firearms, as evident in internal documents from our sources inside the agency. Still, the agency now suddenly considers an 80% frame bundled with the parts to complete the gun as a firearm even when not assembled. The internal documents falsely claim that a user could put together a weapon in minutes using the kits. The kits require the owner to grind, file, drill, and fit all the pieces before the completed firearm can fire a projectile. That takes more than a few minutes.

Contacts at Brownells.com confirmed that ATF also showed up at the Brownells Iowa office, and other retailers, demanding customer information.

Brownells.com #ad, who did not have the “Buy, Build, Shoot” kits that ATF was targeting, made the point that Brownells would have gone bankrupt in lawyer fees before it complied with this demand.

Brownells told the single ATF agent that visited them that although the company still proudly sells Polymer80 frames that it did not sell the “Buy, Build, Shoot” kits and therefore would not turn over any customer records. The lone agent left without obtaining a single document.

The Firearms Blog reported that the ATF did turn up at a reader’s house and demanded his Polymer80 “Buy, Build, Shoot” kit. The reader did turn over the equipment to the ATF and received a receipt from the agents. AmmoLand News reached out to several high-profile attorneys specializing in firearms to ask if the owner of a “Build, Buy, Shoot” kit could face any type of criminal charges. The lawyers all told AmmoLand News off the record that it would be doubtful that an owner would or could face any charges. They believe that the ATF is most likely using the threat of charges as a fear tactic to force compliance. They suggested that users remain silent and not speak to the agents if they show up at their residence and demand their property.

AmmoLand News has also reported Brady United co-opting a tragic murder to sue Ghost Gunner Inc. and 12 other parts manufacturers over 80% lower receivers. With the ATF, California, and Brady United moving against DIY firearms, some in the gun world believe that these are coordinated attacks. AmmoLand News does have documents showing anti-gun groups in direct communication with several state Governor’s offices. Although none of the documents we have obtained shows anti-gun groups talking about 80% frames or lower receivers, it is still possible.

Gun Owners of America have called for the firing of Acting ATF Director Regina Lombardo. The President still has the power and authority to remove Lombardo as head of the rogue agency.


About John Crump

John is a NRA instructor and a constitutional activist. John has written about firearms, interviewed people of all walks of life, and on the Constitution. John lives in Northern Virginia with his wife and sons and can be followed on Twitter at @crumpyss, or at www.crumpy.com.

John Crump

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DB
DB
4 months ago

The answer to this problem is simple: Use encryption. No company should be using unencrypted customer databases in this day and age.

Nightowl490
Nightowl490
10 months ago

Classic CALIFORNICATION!

nobodyuknow
nobodyuknow
10 months ago

The Communist Government begins its work! The first steps toward disarming American citizens! If you are an American citizen and believe in the Constitution, you need to resist the dictatorial Communist takeover of this country

Pa John
Pa John
10 months ago

NOW IS THE TIME TO BUY A POLYMER80 FRAME Seriously, this makes me want to spend money I should not be spending, to buy a Polymer80 kit of some sort RIGHT NOW in order to help the good people at Polymer80 and the retailers who carry their products. I suppose to avoid the latest ATF treason, trickery, and deceit, I should simply get a Glock 80% frame only and not one of their “Buy Build Shoot” kits that they seem to be targeting right now, and perhaps only concern myself with obtaining obtaining the rest of the needed goodies to… Read more »

Denzo
Denzo
10 months ago

Polymer 80 good for you // Cali go and kiss your comie ass !! the middle finger is not enough // your day will come Cali and China will rule your ass !!

The Crimson Pirate
The Crimson Pirate
10 months ago

It is time for everyone in the 80%, and 3D printing spaces and everyone who sells gun parts to erase all of their customer data. It needs to get done before January 20th. Any FFLs brave enough should burn all of their 4473s too.

MICHAEL J
MICHAEL J
10 months ago

Good for Polymer 80! Give California what it deserves, the middle finger.

Puttson2
Puttson2
10 months ago

Time for BIT-BLEACH AND A HAMMER!

Boz
Boz
10 months ago
Reply to  Puttson2

You mean……Iike a cloth???

Tionico
Tionico
10 months ago
Reply to  Puttson2

I’ve got a woood stove to heat thehouse. A hard drive dropped in that would not be likely to maintian any retrievable data. Before diong that. offload all the other stuff yu need, then cook that baby. Then drop it into the kerbside rubbish tip on Sunday evening late, theoe at home, not at the shop, Make sure the remains of the cooked drive are buried in a nice container of disgusting stuff, maybe like well filled disposable nappies.
Dey is wantin ta play sum hardball, well, let’s play us sum hardball.

DB
DB
4 months ago
Reply to  Puttson2

Not needed anymore. Most SSDs can now be secure deleted with a mouse click in the drive management software. With SSDs once a bit is reset there is no way to determine it’s previous state and the on board drive controller can reset all bits on the drive very quickly. In SSD applications that support it, even a delete operation just performed from the OS with TRIM enabled is a secure delete of the file in question because the drive controller will automatically clear the bit settings for the previously written space effectively performing an overwrite. This is true of… Read more »

Last edited 4 months ago by DB
JSNMGC
JSNMGC
10 months ago

I checked Lauren Boebert’s website – no statements about the BATFE’s actions on pistol braces or “ghost guns.”

In fact, there are no press releases after November 3. Huh.

I’m hoping she will be different, but so far, lot’s of pictures of her in jeans wearing/shooting a gun, but not much for speaking out against the anti-2nd Amendment actions of government employees.

Maybe she will engage soon.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

And she depended on a bunch of leg-humping Republicans to vote her into office for just that reason.

Is it too much to ask our elected representatives to speak out on government overreach?

If they run for office largely on 2nd Amendment issues, is it too much to ask them to speak up in between their election and taking office?

Last edited 10 months ago by JSNMGC
Tionico
Tionico
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

so hat? Loooking hot don’t carry the freight. Too bad more folks haven’t figured THAT out yet. Thinking with yer little head never turns out well.

Steve
Steve
10 months ago
Reply to  Tionico

Well, I donated to her campaign, not because she looked “hot” but because she stood up to “Beto” at his own campaign rally btw. She could be as ugly as O’Rourke himself and I would have supported her.

musicman44mag
musicman44mag
10 months ago

vear are z paperz old man. Looks like this is going to be a court battle for sure. I watched the video. That was a very long 5 minuets to get the lower ready so it could have the parts installed. I almost think that if you had a person that was good with CAD and had a CNC machine that you could make this out of a block of plastic or aluminum yourself. I don’t know if these things are made by injection mold or what. What I do know is that i have heard of people using shovels… Read more »

Dubi Loo
Dubi Loo
10 months ago

Issuing official Atta Boys to Polymer 80 and Brownells for having the courage to just say No.

Thank you John Crump for your articles, I appreciate getting straight news.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
10 months ago
Reply to  Dubi Loo

If only Lombardo’s boss (or her boss’s boss) had told her to stop, people would not be being bullied.

After the inauguration, the BATFE is going to continue doing what they are doing now, except instead of people calling them a “rogue agency,” a group of people will be writing:

“LOOK – SEE!!!!! BIDEN AND THOSE DEMON-RATS ARE USING THE BATFE TO IMPLEMENT GUN CONTROL WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE!!!!!!”

Trump just refuses to make the phone call to stop all this nonsense and the same group of people that will criticize Biden, make all sorts of excuses for him.

Last edited 10 months ago by JSNMGC
Stag
Stag
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

Anyone who’s been paying attention to Trumps record, actions, and words knows he more than likely supports what the ATF is doing.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
10 months ago
Reply to  Stag

So far I’ve heard:

  • He’s too busy destroying Satan who controls the U.K. who controls the Chinese who control almost all U.S. legislators
  • He doesn’t understand that rights specifically protected by the 2nd Amendment are important to the firearm community he pandered to during both campaigns and there is no one to give him a clue
  • The BATFE is a “rogue agency” and doesn’t report to the executive branch – there’s nothing Trump can do
Stag
Stag
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

It’s almost as if Trump is either ignorant, incompetent, anti-2A, or a mixture of the three.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
10 months ago
Reply to  Stag

If more people were openly critical of what he has done, maybe the next Republican presidential candidate would get the message: no more gun control. Unfortunately, the very community he tossed under the bus comes to his defense. They: Overlook the gun control he supported in his book Refuse to discuss the 2nd Amendment coalition he promised but was never created Criticize people for bringing up the bump stock ban even though that ban paves the way for much more gun control related to rate-of-fire issues and demonstrates the ease with which the Administrative State can be used to enact… Read more »

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
10 months ago
Reply to  JSNMGC

To keep the list current, now people are saying:

  • Trump is under the spell of “elite globalists” and that is why he is allowing the BATFE, that reports to him via the AG, to overreach their authority. Apparently he’s been put into a trance. It’s those darn millionaires that are the problem (apparently wealth is a problem, again, unless it’s Trump)
  • It’s the new world order calling the shots of people who report to Trump. Trump has no control (except when he wants them to do bad things).
Vince
Vince
10 months ago

If Hillary can lose 10,000 emails, they can lose their customer list,.

Ryben Flynn
Ryben Flynn
10 months ago
Reply to  Vince

I’m fairly certain Slide Fire did.

musicman44mag
musicman44mag
10 months ago
Reply to  Vince

Oh, this is a no shit sherlock. What do you want to bet he would be prosecuted rather than them saying, oh he didn’t do it with malice or any illegal intent so we will give him the same thing we did for Hitlary.

nrringlee
nrringlee
10 months ago

F disk your databases before Kamala the Kommunist gets couped in to power in January.

DB
DB
4 months ago
Reply to  nrringlee

That wont destroy data on conventional mechanical hard drives to the degree that advanced forensic recovery tools will not work to recover it. The only sure method on mechanical drives is physical destruction which is the DOD standard for mechanical hard drives taken out of service.

Green Mtn. Boy
Green Mtn. Boy
10 months ago

They were either lost in a tragic boating accident or office fire or is that burn pile.

John
John
10 months ago
Reply to  Green Mtn. Boy

The attorneys as mentioned in the article gave smart counsel, shut up shut up shut up! Any comment, even jokingly, as I am sure you were, is an admission and may be considered as a waiver of Rights and can also lead to a criminal charge. My advise and it is free so worth nothing, when engaged in a scenario as the article discusses, politely inform the government agent that you respect AND support their Oath of Office, and then claim your 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 10th Amendment Rights and Restrictions, have a good day, God Bless and… Read more »

Green Mtn. Boy
Green Mtn. Boy
10 months ago
Reply to  John

John
“Any comment, even jokingly, as I am sure you were, is an admission and may be considered as a waiver of Rights and can also lead to a criminal charge.”

It was but you are correct, get a warrant and I want to speak to a attorney are the only reply that should be given.

John
John
10 months ago
Reply to  Green Mtn. Boy

Indeed – one criminal trial attorney told me he instructs all his clients regardless of subject matter case, to use the following when dealing with government who are asking guilt seeking questions – “I claim all my rights all the time and waive none of my rights anytime”, then shut up shut up shut up.

DB
DB
4 months ago
Reply to  Green Mtn. Boy

If you are talking to them to give them this story then you have already made your first mistake and they likely have you for obstruction.

DIYinSTL
DIYinSTL
10 months ago

“The internal documents falsely claim that a user could put together a weapon in minutes using the kits.” Yup. 60 of them in an hour and 10,080 in a week. In minutes I could become a tool-and-die maker cranking out mini-guns in my garage.

JSNMGC
JSNMGC
10 months ago

Of all the things Law Enforcement could do, they choose to spend their limited resources pursuing issues related to an interpretation of a law concerning an act that doesn’t hurt anyone. Meanwhile, if a person commits murder or non-negligent homicide on the south or west sides of Chicago, the chance of being arrested, convicted, and actually serving a meaningful sentence, is less than 2%. In the vast majority of those murder/non-negligent homicide cases, one or more of the following crimes was also committed: A firearm was stolen; A stolen firearm was purchased; A firearm was purchased illegally in state (via… Read more »