Permits to Purchase or Carry Arms are Infringements of Second Amendment Rights

The right to keep and bear arms necessarily includes the right to obtain arms. Arms can be obtained in several ways. Those include: making your own arms; buying your arms from someone else; having your arms given to you; finding arms that have been lost or discarded; and stealing arms that belong to someone else.

The most common method of obtaining arms is to buy them. The right to buy arms is clearly included in the right to keep and bear arms as an ancillary right necessary to maintain the right to keep and bear them. Ancillary rights necessary to preserve the right to keep and bear arms have been recognized by the Supreme Court and inferior courts as necessary to maintain the right to keep and bear arms.

It follows, therefore, requiring a permit to purchase arms is an infringement of the right to keep and bear arms.

Under the Supreme Court decision in Bruen, if a statute implicates an action protected under the Second Amendment, the State has the burden of proving, with the historical record, such infringements were common and accepted just before and after the ratification of the Second Amendment; or, to a lesser extent, shortly after the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment in 1868. Occasional statutes or local laws or laws of short duration are not sufficient to establish a law as common and accepted. Laws which affected only a small percentage of the population are unlikely to meet the historical test.  Governments in the late colonial and early republic era had the same concerns with disarming dangerous individuals as do governments today. They could have enacted laws requiring a permit to purchase firearms. The lack of such laws is evidence they were not widely viewed as acceptable infringements on the right to keep and bear arms, protected by the Second Amendment.

There was no lack of laws against stealing. Prohibition of stealing is in the DNA of Western jurisprudence and culture, deriving from the biblical commandment not to steal. Laws against the theft of arms are not infringements on Second Amendment rights.

Some judges have claimed there is historical support which allows the requirement of a permit to purchase arms or the carry arms. Chief Judge Renee Marie Bumb of the Federal District Court, D. of New Jersey, in her opinion issued [embedded below] on May 16, 2023, implies the requirement to obtain a permit to obtain and carry arms is acceptable in American history.

Judge Bumb treats a permit to purchase and a permit to carry as essentially the same. The “why” of the law is to disarm dangerous people; to a lesser extent, it is to prevent dangerous people from having arms.

There is much which is positive in Judge Bumb’s opinion. Finding there is a historical acceptance of requiring a permit to carry, or even purchase, a firearm is an unfortunate misreading by Judge Bumb. From page 10 of the Opinion:

That said, this Court finds that most of the new legislation’s firearm permitting requirements are consistent with the Second Amendment. This Nation has historically disarmed dangerous individuals or those who could endanger the public’s safety if allowed to have a firearm. The new legislation adheres to that historical tradition because it aims to keep firearms out of the hands of New Jerseyans who could threaten the public’s safety.

Judge Bumb recognizes the inherent infringement of permit laws but claims permits are an acceptable infringement.  From the opinion:

Page 35:

Chapter 131’s permit process implicates the right to armed self-defense in public because an
individual must first obtain a Carry Permit to carry a handgun in public for self-defense, otherwise, the individual exposes him- or herself to criminal liability. N.J. Stat. Ann. § 2C:39-5(b).

Page 37:  

Bruen left open the possibility of constitutional challenges to “shall issue” statutory laws because “any permitting scheme can be put toward abusive ends.”

Page 38:  

In any event, based on the State’s historical materials and the Court’s own research, this Court finds this Nation has a historical tradition of disarming dangerous individuals and those who endanger the public safety.

Judge Bumb relies on colonial laws from 1692 and later, which allowed public officials to disarm people who were found to be dangerous, such as a New Hampshire colonial law allowing a person to be disarmed if they refused to take an oath of allegiance or a Massachusetts law which allowed officials to disarm people who rode about to “terrify the public”.  There were laws to prevent slaves from carrying or keeping arms without permission of the owner. A 1664 law of colonial New York which required a slave to obtain permission from his master to carry arms outside his master’s property.  Similar laws existed in 1704 in Virginia, and for “free negros, mulattos or [I]ndians” to have guns after obtaining a license. North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia had laws prohibiting slaves from carrying guns in public without permission from their owners.   In 1832 Delaware had a law allowing “free negros and mullatos” to carry firearms with a license.

Such laws were relatively rare. They applied to groups of people who were not considered part of the body politic. They required the permit only for particular groups of people, not the whole body of the people.

After the Civil war, a few jurisdictions required a permit to carry a pistol. They include local ordinances in Jersey City, in 1871 and the  City of New York, in 1881.  From these sparse underpinnings, Judge Bumb creates this finding. From page 57:

This Court finds that Chapter 131’s reputable persons endorsement and in-person interview requirements are “narrow, objective, and definite standards guiding licensing officials” to “ensure only those bearing arms in [New Jersey] are, in fact, law-abiding, responsible citizens.” Bruen, 142 S.

Such permits are a prior restraint on the right to keep and bear arms.

There is an enormous difference in the “how” of the law. The early laws required the State to determine a person was dangerous before they were disarmed.  In the early situation, most people were presumed to be allowed to possess and carry arms. Only small numbers of people are considered to be dangerous and disaffected.  In the latter situation, which New Jersey is promoting, everyone is presumed to be dangerous and are not allowed to be armed until the state says they may.  This is a retreat to monarchical law. Significantly,  Colonial or early Republic States could have required everyone to apply for a permit before purchasing arms. No state passed such a general requirement. It is telling they did not do so.

The New Jersey law requires a person to prove they are not dangerous before they are allowed to be armed. The change in the burden of proof is huge. The New Jersey law equates the entire body of the people as dangerous and disaffected until shown to be otherwise. Disarming people who are already armed is significantly different from preventing people, who are not armed, from becoming armed.  Only people who were not considered part of the body politic (slaves and free Negros or mullatos, or Indians) in slave states were presumed to need permission to be armed. The vast majority of the polity were not required to ask for or obtain permits. Only those who were not considered to be reliable were required to obtain permits.

The requirement to obtain a permit to own or carry arms puts ordinary, law-abiding people in the same category as slaves or those who are presumed to have no allegiance to Constitutional government.

Significantly later, some jurisdictions required people to obtain a permit to purchase a pistol, such as Michigan in 1911 and North Carolina in 1919. Those statutes are too late to be relevant in Second Amendment jurisprudence.

In the philosophy of the founding, the majority of the people were to be trusted with political power, such as the vote and the right to keep and bear arms.  Only suspect minorities were required to apply for permits to own or carry arms. In the Progressive era, majorities of voters were to have their opinions and choices shaped by experts. They were not to be consulted in most decisions.

Judge Bumb explains the Supreme Court has not delivered an opinion on whether “shall issue” carry laws are constitutional under the Second Amendment.  She allows the issue is one which is yet to be adjudicated. Judge Bumb compares a permit to purchase or carry a firearm with a permit to have an event protected by the First Amendment. It is a precarious comparison. One is for a group of people where significant costs may accrue to the local government. Another is for an individual where the local government has no need to even know they are armed. The administrative costs are all created by the law requiring a permit, not costs created by the permit holder.

Over the last 100 years, infringements on the exercise of Second Amendment rights have created bureaucracies and a mythology of the usefulness or necessity of government power to dole out those rights to a favored few. That era is over for most of the United States.  Recently, the requirement of permits to purchase handguns was repealed in Nebraska and North Carolina.

If the Republic can be maintained for a few more years, the words “shall not be infringed” have a good chance of being honored as they were meant when written.

Final Opinion in RONALD KOONS, et al., Plaintiffs, v. MATTHEW PLATKIN


About Dean Weingarten:

Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of Constitutional Carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.

Dean Weingarten

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Arizona

Correct. The 2nd doesn’t say, “except when …”
Federal and state gov’s have no legitimate authority over Americans’ ownership, selection and carrying of firearms,

Stag

Butters and Fudds are cancer.

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

WATCH THIS! It is the best you will ever see on the subject!

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

Weird I could have sworn I left a link at youtube for The True Meaning And Purpose Of The 2nd Amendment

Longeno

Requiring a state or federal permit to be able to purchase a firearm when I am a law-abiding non-felon is a clear infringement in my view.

Stag

Even if you are a felon, it’s still an infringement.

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

First off, that would be an “EX” felon. If they are considered safe to release into society, they have the right to self defense too. PERIOD. No MAN has the right to infringe on another man’s RIGHTS. PERIOD.

Henry Bowman

No government, either.

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

The government is the US Constitution. Those swearing to uphold it are men and women who are SUPPOSED to administer the government as laid down by the founders.

Unfortunately they don’t.
FJB FATF FDOJ

USMC0351Grunt

Whoa? Lest we forget, “A government OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE”?

Henry Bowman

I understand the spirit of what you’re saying and am not contesting that, but it would be more accurate to say that the Constitution creates the government, and ‘We The People’ are masters over the civil servants that make up what is generally understood to be ‘the government’. Because our founders established this nation as a constitutionally limited republic, and seeing what Bubba said in his reply to you, I will concur with him that the current regime (largely because they’re illegitimate, without authority and because of their rampant lawlessness) is not obeying their master (us). This is in complete… Read more »

John Locke Right of Revolution (1689) 2nd Treatise on Civil Government.png
Bubba

That’s a fact.

Last edited 10 months ago by Bubba
Bubba

That’s the crux of it.
If you served your time for your crime and you are no longer on Parole or Probation, you should automatically have 100% of your rights restored. At midnight of that last day.

Now if you F_ck up again. Penalties need to be very severe.

USMC0351Grunt

That’s the way they dealt with it in the old west! Get out of the territorial prison and they gave your guns back upon release.

WeWereWarned

Sir, how do not you understand that since you support gun control on those you fear, that you can’t cry about gun control being used on you. The government fears armed Citizens, who can instantly say no to the government enforcers.

You believe that the 2nd Amendment is a government privilege for some Citizens but not for you. That is how the older folks have traded our Liberty for false security.

Wild Bill

Where do you get all of that out of Longeno’s one sentence comment?

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

HUH?

USMC0351Grunt

WTF? (Just keeping THIS ONE short!)

Hazcat

The Judge needs to take her reasoning back one more step. She presumes all (NJ) citizens are dangerous and need a permit from the state. In actuality the permit is stated in (not given by) the 2A.

The onus is therefore on the state to provide proof that the citizen is too dangerous to exercise this right AND that there is no need to separate this dangerous citizen from the general public at the same time.

That is a position I would love to see argued by permit proponents.

USMC0351Grunt

The fine point here is by ALL of these infringements, these jackasses like this judge are going to make us ALL “dangerous” when we go totally unhinged with the 2nd Amendment and give them a 1775 history lesson!

Cappy

We finally got rid of the Pistol Purchase Permit in North Carolina over the objection of our democrat governor. It took a veto proof Republican legislature to get it done. The valid argument that it was originally instituted to prevent Blacks from purchasing pistols finally got through to enough people that even our left-wing governor couldn’t stop it. That, and the fact that a few loony-left sheriffs in Blue counties were refusing to issue permits, or taking a year or more to issue them, pissed off enough people that the law was finally overturned. We haven’t made it all the… Read more »

USMC0351Grunt

Keep up the good fight! Daily id at all possible! http://LegiScan.com

Last edited 10 months ago by USMC0351Grunt
Laddyboy

The DemoKKKratic controlled State of Maryland has had this “JIM-CROW-style” law in effect. It is called a; “Handgun Qualification license”. It DOES NOT allow the individual to carry a weapon. One MUST have this “permit” in order to purchase a handgun OR a “lower receiver of an AR 15 OR an AR 10”. The process costs about $150 to $200 dollars to obtain. This is an ANTI-CONSTITUTIONAL INFRINGEMENT upon Marylanders!

DIYinSTL

Purchase permits are no different than and as constitutional as a poll tax.

Sisu

“… shall not be infringed.” The current situation is there exists a foundational US Constitution; but there is no “republic” and thus today no country based on the US Constitution exists (if ever it did). The “Bruen” decision was a negotiate step in the “proverbial” right direction. In order to have five of the nine non elected “high priests” of “truth” agree and to keep “lawyers” employed there necessarily was found a new “standard” for determining “constitutionality” of unlawful restrictions on the “right of the People to keep and bear Arms… ” Without intent of disparaging J. Thomas and the… Read more »

Stag

Butters and Fudds are cancer.

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

Do you write somewhere? I want the link if you do. This post is excellent. I would like to quote it elsewhere and give you credit. Please let me know who to credit.

Courageous Lion, Thank you for your comment. I do post sporadically as a reader on other sites – same pen name. You are welcome to use whatever I post; I’ll leave it to you should you choose to reference my pen name and this site, or just say from a “reader comment”.

Wild Bill

This purge that you mention, how would you accomplish that?

Sisu

Regardless of your political philosophy: crises present opportunity for those who act (as opposed to merely complain and like progressives attempt to ask “gotcha” questions ). The coming deep economic depression may give more opportunity to “patriots” currently in government as well those who fight to become elected officials in government at all levels to change the rules (of course if the demonrats and rinos in DC get their way and provoke Russia and CCP further we’ll have an opportunity to start from scratch). … Increasingly there are more organizations and individuals (beyond 2nd Amendment fights) who are fighting government… Read more »

USMC0351Grunt

“Eliminate every federal department and agency which is duplicative of individual state agencies; e.g., EPA, DOL, Dept of Education, IRS (eliminated with repeal of the 16th Amendment), every NGO funded in part or whole by the federal government, etc. This could be accomplished through a “budget process”, such as the one Congress is required by law to (but doesn’t) follow.” Senator Dr Tom Coburn, (R-OK) of Broken Arrow, Oklahoma has already spent much of his two terms in office performing the leg-work necessary to perform this step. We really do need to contact him to see if we can pick-up… Read more »

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

That’s easy. Torches and pitchforks.

Sisu

Patience.

My reply is waiting for “moderation” since earlier this afternoon.

Curious, I didn’t even include an external link or “triggering” word (then my vocabulary is only as recent as last month). … Nor, in the past have I ever sinned other than to include “safe” external links.

I am just not the “right” kind of “conservative”.

USMC0351Grunt

None of us are… THAT is WHY we are HERE!

USMC0351Grunt

All Bruen did was connect the dots, (Like talking to a two year old) for the dumbasses that couldn’t figure out or understand Heller. PERIOD!

As for purging anybody’s bowels, I’ll be busy that day.

Last edited 10 months ago by USMC0351Grunt
gregs

there are already a plethora of laws against criminal behavior, but you cannot legislate morality nor behavior. humans have a track record of not following the law, especially ones they deem immoral or unjust. shouldn’t she be concerning herself the with citizens of nj not the nation, as that is what this litigation is about? i guess in her mind everyone in nj is a dangerous person that needs permission to exercise a right. seems like this justice is speaking out of both sides of her progressive mouth, it is an infringement but not. this judge must be a jim… Read more »

USMC0351Grunt

They were free when my relatives left them back in 1783…

Ledesma

Liberals view the age of gunpowder as a reversable condition. A temporary condition sustained only by permission.

Last edited 10 months ago by Ledesma
Cmdr Strawman

A permit or license is when the government steals your freedom and then sells it back to you!

RetUSAF

That is how life, is as a Serf living in Illinois.

Last edited 10 months ago by RetUSAF
Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

Funny, I lived in Florida during the time when carrying without a permit was considered a “felony”. I did it anyway for about 12 years before I moved to Tennessee where it was not a felony at the time but a class A misdemeanor. Did it there too. Then I moved to Washington State. DID IT THERE TOO. Then I moved to Arkansas and DID IT THERE TOO until they made it a “Constitutional Carry” state. IT SAYS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED and my grasp of English is enough to understand those four words. So F them. I’d rather be… Read more »

USMC0351Grunt

Living as a serf in the United States is a personal choice.

Watch um

This judge and all the others who are of opinion can go straight to hell and kiss my grits.
From an 80 year old southern gentleman who gives two shits what she said

USMC0351Grunt

“Shits and Grits”, it’s like Kibbles and Bits, only different!

Desert Guy

The suppression of rights and the cofification of theft are the foundations of all government.

USMC0351Grunt

I’m pretty sure THAT is WHY we had the Revolutionary War… Then all those bureaucrats got together and drafted that pesky Constitution of The United States?

Wass

In New Jersey, an old, law-abiding guy like myself has as good a chance getting a seat on the International Space Station or scoring a date with Kim Kardashian as qualifying for a concealed carry permit.

ruffhouse

Desiring a date with any of the Kartrashians should put you on a red flag list.

Wass

In NJ, just desiring a gun, unless you’re someone privileged, puts you on a red flag list.

Courageous Lion - Hear Me Roar - Jus Meum Tuebor

Mark Passio – The True Meaning And Purpose Of The 2nd Amendment. THIS SHOULD HAVE MILLIONS of views. WATCH IT AND PASS IT AROUND! The best presentation on the 2nd Amendment that I’ve ever watched!

Chuck

I’ve maintained that Permits are an Infringement. I’m already required to have a Background Check to purchase a Firearm. What then, is the justification for a second Background Check? If there is no disqualifying information in the first background check, how will there be any in the second? The 2nd Amendment protects my Right to Keep and Bear Arms. It doesn’t say Bear Arms Openly or Bear Arms Concealed, Just Bear Arms The How Arms Are Beared didn’t matter to the Founders Obviously, or they would have specified such, as pistols rifles and muskets and Pocket Pistols (first appeared on… Read more »

rexx45

The 2nd amendment nullifies all gun laws, just like the 24th nullified all poll taxes.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay poll tax or other tax
.
Only applying to new poll taxes is not even implied nor accepted by any plain language of the amendment.

Same for the 2nd.

USMC0351Grunt

“Judge Bumb recognizes the inherent infringement of permit laws but claims permits are an acceptable infringement.”

Under WHAT authority or hallucination does a judge think they have the power and authority to create an, “acceptable infringement”?

It is beyond obvious that this, “BUMb needs to be bounced off the bench, FOR GOOD! Back in the 1600’s all the way up to the 1770’s when over 80 of my relatives stomped all over New York, New Jersey, Virgina and other territories, fighting alongside George Washington, there wasn’t ANY BUMbs around issuing permits for them to carry their arms.

Last edited 10 months ago by USMC0351Grunt
FL-GA

I consider the majority of people in New Jersey and NYC to be dangerous to the Constitution and to the American way of life, so maybe what this obviously politically motivated judge says has some validity.

USMC0351Grunt

Send me your address, I’ll send you some Chap Stick so you can keep kissing that ring.

ridgeview

Your statement is not very nice !

JimQ

The firearm permit process is nothing more than a poll tax on our enumerated right to keep and bear arms.

I’d like to see the Gun Free Zone act brought into compliance with the elimination of the poll tax on our right to keep and bear arms. The Gun Free Zone act protects permit holders if they bring a firearm within 1000feet of a school. This needs to be corrected. The best fix is to eliminate these gun free zones that are more accurately named Victim Disarmament Zone or as criminals see it, a target rich environment.

BigRed

The bill of rights was written to stop the kind of tyrannical bs the state and local governments have been pulling for a long time. Historical tradition has nothing to do with law… Slavery has historical tradition, and there is historical tradition under lincoln of severely curtailing free speech and imprisoning people without trial. Scotus included ”historical tradition” in bruen to create nonstop litigation that would perpetually dissallow US citizens to practice their rights in states and under local governments that wish to infringe. If scotus wants to honor the law of the 2nd amendment, they would simply direct cease… Read more »

Last edited 10 months ago by BigRed