Planned King County Gun Confiscations Foreshadow Larger, Wider Plans

Wider forcible gun confiscation is getting closer to becoming a reality based on the citizen disarmament advocates' own actions and words.

Ammoland Shooting SportsUSA – -(Ammoland.com)- “King County Councilmembers have unanimously approved more than $600,000 to target accused domestic abusers who refuse to turn over their firearms to police, as required by law,” Seattle’s NBC affiliate  King 5 reports. “Federal law requires people served with domestic violence protection orders to surrender their firearms to police.”

The catalyst for the new-found emphasis is the Texas church massacre killer, whose domestic violence conviction was not entered by the Air Force into the National Criminal Information Center database.

“A King 5 investigation earlier this year showed how hundreds of domestic abusers in our area hold onto their guns, in spite of court orders,” anchor Lori Matsukawa assures viewers. “Now, there’s a new development, as Chris Ingalls is here to explain in our news room. Chris.”

True to form and to agenda, Ingalls repeats the conflation.

Conflation?

A court order does not always a domestic abuser make, despite what King 5 wants its viewers to believe. We’re supposed to have due process, requiring a trial, conviction and sentencing before penalties are imposed.  Like the Texas maniac had.

In many cases, we’ve seen restraining orders and firearm prohibitions based on considerably less than “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard. It’s not like motives and incentives don’t exist, including revenge, or getting an upper hand in divorce settlements or custody proceedings.  And in many cases, those unfairly caught up in such orders lack the wherewithal to defend the rights they’re being deprived of.

“Washington enacted a law in 2014 that mirrors federal law by prohibiting gun possession by anyone subject to a protective order,” the Giffords Law Center confirms. “The 2014 law also requires the court issuing the protective order to prohibit the restrained individual from purchasing or possessing firearms or a concealed carry license and require the restrained person to surrender any firearms or concealed carry licenses in his or her possession.  The individual must file a proof of surrender with the court.”

“The court may require the party to surrender any firearm or dangerous weapon in his or her immediate possession or control or subject to his or her immediate possession or control to local law enforcement, his or her counsel, or to any person designated by the court,” the explanation continues. “These provisions apply to … Restraining orders issued upon filing of a complaint for dissolution of marriage, including ex parte orders [and] Restraining orders issued in cases where parental rights and child support issues are adjudicated, including ex parte orders…”

That’s quite different from being a “domestic abuser” and a menace equivalent to the Texas church shooter, is it not?

So how will authorities know how to match restraining orders with noncompliant gun owners?

Initiative i-594 is a Gun Ban
Now that it's been passed, it's being used to advance citizen disarmament.

For older private purchases, they might not, unless someone telling on them results in a warrant. But there’s always a trail when “universal background checks” are required, as per Washington State’s Initiative 594, which also “required that dealers who are facilitating gun transfers — whether they are through the licensed dealer or a private seller — receive confirmation in writing from the chief of police or sheriff that the purchaser in question ‘is eligible to possess a pistol […] and that the application to purchase is approved by the chief of police or sheriff.’”

And the reason that’s a universal gun-grabber goal is because, as a National Institute of Justice “Summary of Select Firearm Violence Prevention Strategies” noted, “Effectiveness depends on the ability to reduce straw purchasing, requiring gun registration…”

If they know who’s got ‘em, they know where to look.

And the goal, of course is to go national, including with confiscation.

Pelosi knows each increment brings gun-grabbers one step close to their goal.

For once in her life, Nancy Pelosi actually told the truth about guns, admitting to the “slippery slope” that gun prohibitionists used to ridicule as paranoid. The other thing they ridicule as paranoid is warning against gun confiscation. But we see the King County effort writ large in The Boston Globe’s latest “Ideas” submission by insulated editorialist David Scharfenberg in his plainly-stated “solution” ambitiously titled “Hand over your weapons.”

“Assault weapon” bans won’t be sufficient because “they account for just a tiny sliver” of deaths, he admits. And neither will background checks, because those “will do nothing to cut down on the 310 million guns already in circulation.”

One way to make inroads could be with mandatory Australia-style “buy backs” (a fake term if ever there was one) like Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama floated trial balloons over. Another is by doing the same thing as King County, via “restraining orders and other measures designed to deprive the most dangerous people of guns — like background checks and tighter restrictions on domestic abusers.

Some of the Guns Confiscated and Destroyed in Australia
If this is achieved, expect to see the collectivists start controlling in earnest.

“Ultimately, if gun-control advocates really want to stanch the blood, there’s no way around it: They’ll have to persuade more people of the need to confiscate millions of those firearms, as radical as that idea may now seem,” Scharfenberg proclaims. “The logic of gun control lies, at bottom, in substantially reducing the number of deadly weapons on the street — and confiscation is far and away the most effective approach.

“Is there any conceivable turn of events in our politics that could make confiscation happen?” he asks. “And what would a mass seizure look like?”

A political turn that might give some the inclination that it’s safe to try would be the aging of the existing population, reducing the numbers of activist gun owners.  Add to that the takeover of the electorate via a “pathway to citizenship” for foreigners overwhelmingly sympathetic — by all objective measures — to Democrats and to citizen disarmament.  Give it time and the confiscators might work up the confidence to try.

What would it look like?

Kind of like this for a hard and not insubstantial core:

“The only way you're going to get those people's firearms is to murder them first.”

You’ll forgive us is we don’t just wait our turn.

Expect some not to go quietly.

In the mean time, some understand that the old paradigm of lobbying and campaigning for politicians and measures no longer works in safely and irrevocably “progressive” states. That means gun owners are faced with the choice of surrender or defy, which in itself is a time-honored American tradition. And while groups vested in political access may call on the state to enforce existing Intolerable Acts, and advocate that the duty of “good, honest, law-abiding Americans” is to obey them, some of us have adopted a different philosophy, one that reflects the greatest schism in the “gun rights” movement:

We will not comply.

And we will not disarm.

David Codrea in his natural habitat.

About David Codrea:

David Codrea is the winner of multiple journalist awards for investigating / defending the RKBA and a long-time gun owner rights advocate who defiantly challenges the folly of citizen disarmament.

In addition to being a field editor/columnist at GUNS Magazine and associate editor for Oath Keepers, he blogs at “The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance,” and posts on Twitter: @dcodrea and Facebook.

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    Lord-Pi-314Clifford Allen MechelsTheHolyCrowAlanWild Bill Recent comment authors
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    Jim Macklin
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    Jim Macklin

    Malfeasance in office is what the people are doing when tehy propose known unconstitutional laws. As much as it would make you feel better, treason is defined in the Constituion . U.S. Constitution – Article 3 Section 3 Article 3 – The Judicial Branch Section 3 – Treason Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. Pounding your chest… Read more »

    Lord-Pi-314
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    Lord-Pi-314

    @Jim & @WildBill, and I’ll bolster my case by pointing out that not one of these traitorous worms has offered any legislation at all to strengthen any vehicle registrations or drivers lisence registrations following the mowing down of pedestrians by truck or car murderers. Even though driving is a PRIVILEDGE, and not a right protected by the Constitution, not one piece of legislation was offered to psychologically test any drivers, or to limit the horsepower of any vehicle, or to put people catchers on the front of all vehicles like they used to have on trains for cattle. No, not… Read more »

    Lord-Pi-314
    Guest
    Lord-Pi-314

    For the life of me, I cannot understand why these citizen disarmament politicians are not being charged with TREASON. They take an oath to uphold the Supreme Law of the Land, but instead of doing that they agitate to destroy the rights of their constituency. Some, like Not-So-Feinstein, and Pelosi, Bloomberg, Lautenberg, and a host of others from the Bolshevik crowd, have made a career of being TRAITORS. It is clear and simple. If these dirtbags were legally charged for their crimes, no doubt they would be convicted. And the penalty for a convicted TRAITOR should be a proper old… Read more »

    Jim Macklin
    Guest
    Jim Macklin

    U.S. Constitution – Article 3 Section 3 Article 3 – The Judicial Branch Section 3 – Treason Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted. It is malfeasance… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @LPi314, What you are thinking about is more of a betrayal of the American citizens than treason.

    Lord-Pi-314
    Guest
    Lord-Pi-314

    @ Wild Bill & @JimM…I see it as a planned agenda by a fifth column of traitorous oath breakers who at first deceive the people into getting elected with their monied friends who finance them, and then once in office deliberately attempt to destroy the Constitution, all the while stealing everything that’s not nailed down. I’m not a lawyer, but I’ll bet that if we got some working on this they could make a case against these worms. And there are plenty of people who suspect that many of these shootings are orchestrated events using mind controlled killers for the… Read more »

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    Another question, an interesting one too is the following. Why aren’t the offending law makers voted out of office?

    TheHolyCrow
    Guest
    TheHolyCrow

    @Alan….
    Because it’s not the folks who vote that counts, but the folks who count the vote. Or, “Electronic Voting”, where the vote can be flipped by software that can be installed in less than 4 minutes. Or the fact that piles of counterfeit federal reserve notes can be used to finance those who “take the pledge and go along with the program”. Ask McKinney about that pledge. She knows what it’s like trying to live in a world full of sell outs.

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    :oldvet says:
    November 28, 2017 at 10:28 AM

    @Alan …For a city kid… There is hope for you . As my late father used to say , Make Sure You Are Right then carry on . Welcome.

    My response being, I would so hope, and thank you sir.

    Jim Marine #4 (@357mag22)
    Guest
    Jim Marine #4 (@357mag22)

    i read an interesting article today the 28th of November coming out of HAWAII.
    people who use MEDICAL MARIJUANA WERE GIVEN 30 DAYS TO TURN IN THEIR FIREARMS.
    now talk about GUN CONFICATION.
    crap like that is leading to another CIVIL WAR OR REVOLUTION.
    id suggest those BLACK ROBED TYRANTS READ TITLE 18, USC SECTION 241.
    CONSPIRACY AGAINST RIGHTS.

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    What is the source of the referenced order? State law or regulations or federal regulations or law. Some bureaucratic agency or the courts. Seems like such questions need answering.

    Clifford Allen Mechels
    Guest
    Clifford Allen Mechels

    Drug/marijuana users are prohibited from possessing guns, see ATF form 4473.

    Lord-Pi-314
    Guest
    Lord-Pi-314

    Does that include persons who use the drug known as alcohol, too ? And how about tobacco ? That will be next. These TRAITORS WILL CRAFT ANY LAW to disarm the American citizen. Their agenda is to destroy the US Constitution any way they can. They have declared war against us and most Americans are too stupid and apathetic to see it. They need to be charged with TREASON, and if found guilty, be hung by their scrawny necks after a proper tar & feathering. On public TV !!!

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    Gun confiscation by bureaucrats using the bureaucrat technique. A totally banal “You bring your gun in to us or else.”
    No affidavit supporting a warrant application. That is a lot of work. No messy, dangerous, expensive warrant service. “You bring your gun in to us.” And that is how it will be done all over the U.S.

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    It might well come to the following. You Want ’em, You Come And Get ’em.Bring your lunch though. What then??

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Alan, If the government controls the food supply, they will deny you food until you bring your guns in. The bureaucrats will not go out to where you are. They will eat their lunch in the their office while you go hungry. You’ll bring your weapons in soon enough.

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    Wild Bill:
    Hungry people tend to be angry people. People might act as you predict, or they might act otherwise. Who knows?

    TheHolyCrow
    Guest
    TheHolyCrow

    @risingsun…I for one believe in the right of a person to conceal carry anytime and anywhere. As long as a person is not planning to do something illegal, I see nothing wrong with it. An armed society is a polite society, plus many of my ancestors spent time, money, & blood to ensure that we could. As long as a person is sober and law abiding, I would be glad to have him/her next to me in a mall or anywhere else, with the firearm neatly out of sight. Especially now-a-days when you never know when some MKUltra mind controlled… Read more »

    NewRisingSun
    Guest
    NewRisingSun

    They want gun control? They want to reduce illegal firearms on the streets? then we must have severe punishments for anyone carrying an illegal firearm or anyone carrying a firearm illegally. Maybe if we locked up these criminals for 10 or 20 years with no parole then maybe we can see a reduction in the killings and gun related crimes. Who but the most dangerous will want to be caught with a firearm illegally if they’re facing many years in prison. Just a thought…

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    What you suggest might actually work if properly carried out. You seem to overlook one problem though, that problem being as follows. The number of criminals is relatively small compared to the number of law abiding types, which means that among the law abiding, there are oh so many more Targets of Opportunity.

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    Let me tell you a little story about gun laws, from where I live, that being, these days, in Pennsylvania. Some years back legislation was enacted in the state legislature stipulating that in the case of a conviction for armed crime, an additional 5 year penalty would be imposed on the convicted person or persons. Mind, this was a MANDATORY ADDITIONAL 5 YEAR TERM of IMPRISONMENT. Guess what happened. THe MANDATORY penalty was plea bargained away by prosecutors, with trial judges looking on, some of these prosecutors and judges being rather big on the alleged need for Gun Control, which… Read more »

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    With all the back and forth found in posts here, mention of one aspect appears conspicuous by it’s absence. I will briefly address it here, partly in the form of a question. Some claims of abuse brought by women, perhaps most, I don’t know, might be legitimate, but there are I expect some that are phony as a summers day is long. Respecting this group of abuse claims, however few or many there are, the complainant makes a sworn statement, inherent in the filing of a claim or charges. On investigation, the complaining party’s claims of abuse are found to… Read more »

    Larry Brickey
    Guest
    Larry Brickey

    Great questions. I’ve wondered about that, too.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Alan, The sworn statement would probably only be a false police report, and not become perjury until the false report contents were testified to in court. So after the falseness becomes known, does the prosecutor’s office want to spend attorney time on multiple count felony cases, violent crime cases, or one count false police report cases?

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    Might depend on who the prosecutor or district attorney is, and they too might be elected officials.

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    It would appear that the below post belongs elsewhere. Don’t know how I managed to screw this up, though obviously there was a way. Pardon me.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @Alan …Not being a legal eagle,,, It seems a suit for slander brought by original defendant might be the more logical path.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @OV, Snif, snif, sniff. “Hmmm, smells more like liable, than slander.”, Penelope the Beagle.

    John Forgione
    Guest
    John Forgione

    As long as all wife beaten cops have there guns taken away first!

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    I’m sure he means wife beating cops.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @OV, but… but, it is funnier if read as written!

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @WB… True.

    Doodle noodle
    Guest
    Doodle noodle

    My mosin nagant 7.62x 54 round goes right thru 5/8” steel at 50 yds….. should go right thru any “bullet proof” vest.
    Side shots under the arm pit are your best bet.
    “Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.”

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    Most “bulletproof vests” are designed and rated to protect against the projectiles fired by handgun cartridges, not service Rifle cartridges, ours or anyone else’s.

    Your worst nightmare
    Guest
    Your worst nightmare

    Well I’m going to say this first and foremost upfront I will be tracking if you share my information with anybody if this gets routed anywhere I will bring the house down on you this provider but I want to make it clear the way the Constitution of the United States of America works if any person says it’s okay to violate another person’s rights then the person who made the accusation that it’s okay to violate someone else’s rights they have just forfeited their own so if you’ve ever said something stupid like it’s okay to take his rights… Read more »

    Briley
    Guest
    Briley

    One sentence – Wow! And, ah, I don’t think it makes sense. Where does it say any of that in the Constitution?

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @ Briley, He is my worst punctuation nightmare, that is for sure,and I swear not to share his anything with anyone. On my word of honor. I think that we should back out quietly and close the door behind us.

    fishunter
    Guest
    fishunter

    You folks who made comments are right. Additionally, note the part where he called others “not so bright individuals”, seems like the pot calling the skillet black.

    daves
    Guest
    daves

    Are you a speech writer for Trump? I think we turn you in to the English Department at whatever University is closest to your home! Will that count as “sharing” or “routing” your information? I sure don’t want you to “bring [my] house down” on me. Not only is your English abhorrent, but your logic is, well, illogical.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    I bees ascared too! More likely a speech writer for polosi

    GDubb
    Guest
    GDubb

    We now have a similar illegal and unconstitutional law on the books here in Oregon as many of you know. All of the cops I know here have sworn to NOT comply with any orders to attempt to confiscate any weapons from innocent citizens. They know how wrong this idea is and are not willing to risk their lives to help our tyrannical state government push their agenda. As far as I know, there have not been any confiscation attempts so far under these new laws. I am very curious to see what happens when the first one is attempted.… Read more »

    DaveW
    Guest
    DaveW

    It’s already begun in CA. The powers that be have rejected the input of the people and the input of the law enforcement organizations NOT to add more gun controls. Sheriffs have vowed not to support confiscations. Seems the gun controllers forgot history. On 18 April 1775, British troops were dispatched across MA to confiscate the firearms and powder of the colonists. The following day they were met by armed colonists and the shot heard ’round the world began what we call the Revolutionary War. The first shots, in my opinion, have been fired at Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc. With… Read more »

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    Given the choice between the ballot box and the cartridge box, I would presume the ballot box was preferable, that being just my guess. In any event, at the possible risk of asking a dumb question, how did it come to be that the state legislature is seemingly overly filled with anti gun rights types.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Alan, you cover a lot of ground. I will skip down to “… how did it come to be that the state legislatures…etc, etc.” City people have different concerns that rural dwellers; corrupt politicians promise anything to get elected, and have a bigger audience in the cities; and western frontier city councils, ignorant of the Bill of Rights, enforced no guns in town ordinances.

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    Wild Bill: Pardon me, but I’m a city kid, born, raised and lived for quite a number of years in N.Y.C., from which I departed in 1967, though even back then. NYC was more of a mailing address than anything else. That said, I long ago was taught that 2+ 2=4 and that people who essentially said something else, had something devious in mind. As example thereof, might I offer the Gun Control Set. I was a competitive rifle shooter, also shot trap and IPSC completion. Not interested in hunting at all, though not an anti hunting type either. The… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Alan, You are quite right, modern calls for gun control do not make any sense. Only when one realizes that the objectives are destruction of Civil Rights, rendering the US Constitution obsolete, and ultimately people control do the demands for gun control become clear.

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @Alan …For a city kid… There is hope for you . As my late father used to say , Make Sure You Are Right then carry on . Welcome.

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    How did the objectionable governor obtain office, via the election process most likely, right? Ditto for the objectionable types in the state legislature, the ones who, in fact, enact law.

    Jim Macklin
    Guest
    Jim Macklin

    Restraining orders are almost standard procedures in any divorce. Federal law does say [ or it did a few years ago when I looked] that a person subject to an RO had to be in court and able to contest such an order or it wasn’t a confiscation trigger. But IF you’re involved in a divorce, be prepared to have a lawyer hold your collection because a lawyer will protect the arms from damage. Police will typically remove guns from cases, record serial numbers and fire a few test rounds so they can test bullets for criminal databases. Then the… Read more »

    Andy Buckmichael
    Guest
    Andy Buckmichael

    Do not surrender the firearms to the useless cops. They will steal them for their private collections.

    sh68137
    Guest
    sh68137

    “The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed—where the government refuses to stand for re-election and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake free people get to make only once.”
    –Justice Alex Kozinski, 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals

    Mark Koernke
    Guest
    Mark Koernke

    Organize Militia for mutual defense NOW! Liberty1775

    Mark Koernke
    Guest
    Mark Koernke

    This is why you DO NOT WAIT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE TO ORGANIZE. Militia, a LIFE STYLE AND PART OF OUR AMERICAN FOUNDATION, not a hobby. Organize, arm, equip and train as Militia for mutual defense. Set up a 5/10 program in your AO. Logistics. The key to victory. The Militia started the war on APRIL 19, 1775. The shot heard round the world. The Militia is the property of the people from day one. NO ONE VOTED TO GO TO WAR EXCEPT WITH A 70 caliber ROUND BALL PUT INTO A REGULAR ARMY GUN GRABBER BALLOT BOX. Aim for… Read more »

    circle8
    Guest
    circle8

    King County AKA Seattle is the land of illegal elections. In that county the counting of votes continue until the democrat wins. The extra votes are alway “found” in a misplaced box in some forgotten closet.
    The local crooks, I mean government officials, are used to violating civil rights of their citizens. Their laws, policies and regulations have one objective and that is “the ANTI AMERICAN DEMOCRATS WINS” regardless of the facts.

    DickG
    Guest
    DickG

    Drain the Swamp!

    stan
    Guest
    stan

    Good article. Thanks!

    Peter Hill
    Guest
    Peter Hill

    And my comment?

    The Palmetto Cynic
    Guest
    The Palmetto Cynic

    Commenter Clark Kent simply needs to get banned by the editorial staff like I did. This way David Codrea won’t feel the need to offer up any challenges.

    We will not comply.
    And we will not disarm.

    These are strong words from an author that begs “mother may I” when it comes to silencers.

    When will people grasp the simple fact that what The State enacts isn’t law but arbitrary legislation, that is upheld by their monopoly of judgement?

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    Well TPC… welcome back.

    Farmer
    Guest
    Farmer

    They’re called “supressors”.

    Danceswithdanger
    Guest
    Danceswithdanger

    They are actually called “noise suppressors”

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    One thing I have long been curious about. If silencers, supressors or mufflers all pretty much the same thing, as with the one on your car are such terrible devices, how come you will get ticketed or your vehicle will not pass inspection with a “faulty muffler” or “silencer”?

    Farmer
    Guest
    Farmer

    They are called “supressors”.

    Jon
    Guest
    Jon

    Fram oil filters make the best suppressors.

    Dave from San Antonio
    Guest
    Dave from San Antonio

    Wix work pretty well, too. Mine is nothing more than a ‘solvent trap’ and the hole in the end is only to let the solvent out when it gets full…

    Ned
    Guest
    Ned

    Where’s the “mother may I” money quote. Link, please.

    Henry
    Guest
    Henry

    “Ultimately, if gun-control advocates really want to stanch the blood, there’s no way around it: They’ll have to persuade more people of the need to confiscate millions of those firearms…”
    I’m trying to think of a word as fancy as “stanch” that means its exact opposite. I foresee needing it.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Henery, accelerate, escalate or surge, perhaps?

    Tim
    Guest
    Tim

    So in the Constitution where it reads something like innocent until proven guilty no longer applies…

    Where is all the gun advocates on this? Are they too broke with not enough donations to fight these obvious unconstitutional laws all the way to the Supreme Court?

    The Communists are winning…

    DV laws are evil
    Guest
    DV laws are evil

    I highly doubt that most people know that any misdemeanor Domestic conviction, permanently infringes on a persons unalienable right to bear arms. And even less know that domestic violence covers anyone that you live under the same roof with, anyone that you have a blood relation, anyone you have ever had sex with. And that convictable offenses consist of slamming doors, squealing your tire as you leave your residence, snooping, and making someone “fear for their safety”. Most people convicted of domestic violence never laid a hand on anyone, and chances are that if they did and it was the… Read more »

    Wayne Clark
    Guest
    Wayne Clark

    This isn’t talking about CONVICTED violators, just the ones that have an order served on them. It’s the same as getting a summons to court except the judge has decided to grant DISTANCE from one individual to another…no trial, no conviction, no due process in taking that served person’s right to bear arms away. Only, “he/she filed a complaint & now you have no right to own or posses a gun…end of story, no reason other than they don’t like you enough for you to be suspect & treated like a felon…even though you’ve had no adjudication to deem it… Read more »

    Gunwrites
    Guest
    Gunwrites

    Oh no officer, I don’t have any guns. I “sold” them all. That crazy bitch is mistaken again. Maybe you should check her purse for prescription meds not legally prescribed and other drugs. Better go quickly before my new girlfriend accuses you of attempted rape and demands you be denied your Rights without trial.

    Gunwrites
    Guest
    Gunwrites

    Government plans confiscation without conviction or a due process hearing. Can you say, “Tyranny”? Divorce lawyers representing women love to make a preemptive hit on a fella and get him where it hurts, his tools(Yes, guns are tools). I suppose it is all OK because no man has ever been falsely accused by a vindictive woman.

    Ltpar
    Guest
    Ltpar

    Domestic Abuse and accompanying violence is a serious problem in this country. I would rather see the existing law be followed and all convicted persons be required to surrender any firearms as a condition of their sentence. I would have a problem carrying out a blanket order to seize forearms without a court order. Such direction from Police Management could be considered to be an Unlawful Order.”

    Domestic violence laws are evil.
    Guest
    Domestic violence laws are evil.

    Yeah there is a problem with false allegations and a insanely broad interpretation of what domestic violence is. The fact of the matter is that there is almost zero threat from so called domestic abusers. And a far greater threat to the people having their unalienable right to bear arms infringed, because of insane laws that shouldn’t exist in the first place.

    arthur jenkins
    Guest
    arthur jenkins

    those who dont use guns in any crime should not have their gun rights taken …everyone loses their temper at one time or another but having the control to not grab a gun should be considered in the courts …losejng your gun rights because you lost your temper and struck someone is not a reason to take your rights away!

    Peter Hill
    Guest
    Peter Hill

    Where does the Second Amendment state “The right of the people, except those convicted of domestic violence, to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed?” Why not make it a crime for anyone convicted of domestic violence to speak out against the Government? Why not make it legal for the Police to search the home and belongings (without a warrant) of anyone convicted of domestic violence? Why not make it a crime for anyone convicted of domestic violence to have a driver license? Why not make it legal for anyone convicted of domestic violence to be thrown in jail… Read more »

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    I wrote and posted a few minutes ago, a comment on the above article. Same does not appear. Is it being held for some reason? Please advise.

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    Post mentioned now appears below. Am I impatient?

    Henry
    Guest
    Henry

    Posting of comments here, while apparently entirely automated, is always relatively slow compared to, you know, other blogs that use computers ’n’ stuff.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Alan, it just takes awhile. We all suffer this.

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    “To target accused abusers” strikes a most interesting bell. When last I looked, there was a hellish large difference between being “accused” of something and being proved guilty of whatever the charge might be. Has this minor difference in situation been done away with? One wonders. Setting aside the above, we come to an even more interesting aspect of the thing. Let’s say the accused was forcibly separated from their possessions, firearms in this case. In the process the property, those firearms, and or their owner suffered injury. The accusations, being the basis of police action were, in due course,… Read more »

    G.B.Easterling
    Guest
    G.B.Easterling

    The only way is a Civil War!!! A voting booth will never change this country!!! Stay Ready!!!

    Timothy Votaw
    Guest
    Timothy Votaw

    Umm, where is my comment? It contained nothing offensive, rude or profane. It cited the viewpoint of an American Marine warfighter, a wounded warrior, one who has sacrificed in body and blood for the right to speak up and convey the concerns many of us have about a federal system gone awry, begun largely during the Obama regime of fear mongering about “white men with guns”. If we don’t speak, we are condemned by our silence to becoming victims of this insanity. So, where is my comment? If you’re who and what you say you are here, you’ll show respect… Read more »

    Timothy Votaw
    Guest
    Timothy Votaw

    This Marine warfighter will NOT surrender my Constitutionally guaranteed rights, nor the firearms. I am and have been a lawful citizen my entire life, and swore an oath twice in that lifetime to defend the nation and Constitution that once bound us together as a people called Americans. Nothing has changed within me, but much has changed in this nation, little of it towards the betterment of its citizens due to nefarious, dishonest and evil intentions among some who occupy space here. You may quote me on this. Now, for those who wish to get the informationinthe author’s article into… Read more »

    daves
    Guest
    daves

    We should all be grateful for your service. You have every right to keep and bear arms – until you commit a felony or engage in other activities (such as spousal abuse) which puts your family and the rest of us at much higher risk of becoming a victim.

    Chris Mitchell
    Guest
    Chris Mitchell

    I’m sorry to break it to you but “The Right to Bear Arms Shall not be Infringed” has no qualifiers and as part of the Bill of Rights is outside of the legislative, judicial or executive branches authority to change. If you want to ignore that fact and use force to impose your will on the people as a tyrant expect war. Our founding document is the Declaration of Independence, not the Comstitution and it clearly states it’s our duty to throw off any and all tyranny. Make all the sweet smelling arguments you like, it’s a gun grab. The… Read more »

    daves
    Guest
    daves

    So in your world convicted felons, convicted spousal abusers, and persons with serious mental disorders such as paranoid schizophrenics should be allowed to possess weapons because the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution does not prohibit them from doing so? This entire thread is full of opinions that cause me to wonder if someone is spiking the Koolaid! Especially the stories about domestic violence restraining orders – “I was just minding my own business when, for no reason a judge issues a DVRO against me, my friend, some guy I heard about without a Due Process hearing. . . . ”… Read more »

    Russell Kepler
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    Russell Kepler

    Daves: Hopefully you meant, “until you are cinvicted of a felony”. Or are allegations enough?

    Jack
    Guest
    Jack

    Having trained both SWAT and domestic and foreign counter terrorist units I have always been concerned about the militarization of our “civilian police.” Best example is to research Einstatzkommando – regular German police officers, mostly out of Berlin, in WWII who made up nearly 50% of the direct gun to head SS executioners in Poland. Things and people can, if given the right conditions and circumstances go crazy ANYWHERE!

    freewill
    Guest
    freewill

    judging from the pix, looks like our enemies have armored driven hit squads

    DrSique
    Guest
    DrSique

    As Sheriff David Clarke has said, “If the government starts going door to door to confiscate guns, good people are going to die on both sides.” While I, personally, don’t consider agents of government tyranny to be “good people”, it is probable that, in their own weak minds, they are only doing their job. Of course, the “I was only following orders” defense didn’t work at Nuremberg and it shouldn’t excuse unlawful actions in the USA either.

    Sam Adams
    Guest
    Sam Adams

    The sheer number of Coal Mine canaries makes it clear that a civil war is definitely coming. When is hard to predict, but I suppose the sooner the better. The conflict between freedom and tyranny needs to be resolved and soon.

    Iron Jack
    Guest
    Iron Jack

    THANKS Dave for your wise thoughts and clear writings…… NOW …. if we could just get this across to all the public and not just the Ammoland readers we might just be able to hold the tide of repression back a bit longer if not reverse it and set some new standards…. how can we just get the D.C. bunch to read and understand that Constitution and tell the states to fall in line !…… might not happen in my life (what little is left), but I do like Freewills thought,… be peaceful ’til the enemy comes……. I AM ,… Read more »

    FlaBoy
    Guest
    FlaBoy

    I found an interesting comment by Adam Smith, the economist, who saw the state as arising “for the defense of the rich against the poor.” If you take an honest look at our State, it is obvious we live in a Plutocracy, so his words take on even more meaning. The police are simply the agents of the State and will do as they are instructed (with perhaps the exception of the few “Oath Takers” out there.)

    freewill
    Guest
    freewill

    organize your neighbors block by block, be peaceful until the enemy comes,

    Charlie
    Guest
    Charlie

    We all see what’s coming here. The Demos, and now some Repubs, have joined forces to keep “chipping away” at our 2A rights. I hate to say it, but the NRA is also involved by their recent statements and actions. The time is coming when the govt. will decide to test gunowners by an attempt somewhere to confiscate guns to measure citizen reaction and resistance. Remember New Orleans after the hurricane, the Boston marathon bombing, and just recently, the Puerto Rico storm…..gun confiscation was implemented. There’s another reason to protect our 2A rights. Look at the societal upheaval right now.… Read more »

    joe martin
    Guest
    joe martin

    The section on the Federal Firearms form that includes the Domestic Violence/Restraining order is totally Unconstitutional and should be challenged in court and thrown out as it lacks due process. A vicious, lying, vindictive ex-wife with a crooked attorney (common as fleas) can obtain a restraining order based upon nothing but her word (lie) and you lose your guns and rights. No trial, no hearing, no defense; you’re screwed. I have seen it happen and it is wrong. Yes there are abusers who should be arrested and lose their access to guns, but even they deserve under the Constitution, the… Read more »

    Tionico
    Guest
    Tionico

    And I understand that many divorce lawyers simply include a restrainign order in thepile of the rest of the docs for her to sign, as a matter of course. Few such women will even question the signficance of that piece of paper they sign along with the rest of them. No biggie for the lawyer, one mroe document, one more fee. He don’t care a whit aobut HIM. Then, few of the guys served with such a stack of papers will immediatly take the time and presence of mind to filter through the lot of them and see that restrainign… Read more »

    daves
    Guest
    daves

    As an attorney of 30 years, I can state that you are absolutely incorrect when you claim that a domestic violence restraining order is “thrown in with the rest of the paperwork” by some slippery attorney. In California (and in all other states as far as I know), a domestic violence restraining order requires a Due Process hearing. This is a hearing which requires admissible evidence and a high burden of proof. I have defended and prosecuted both and they are not easy to win. It is never enough for the spouse to simply claim domestic abuse without more –… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @daves, It is pretty hard to speak for all of the various jurisdictions and time periods. I don’t think that the previous commenting gentlemen are in your jurisdiction. Perhaps that is why their view point is different.

    daves
    Guest
    daves

    OR they are just yammering with no basis in fact to support their opinions. I see a lot of hate and vitriol for the government here. Frankly, I don’t want to live anywhere else. We have differences of opinion but we can freely express them. I have no fear of the government throwing me in jail without a trial or taking my belongings without due process. Certainly our government is far from perfect but many who comment here are also fond of pointing out that they have served in the armed forces with pride. I am mostly pro gun. I… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @daves, “Yammering” and “getting shit” and “is just stupid” are not terms that I ever heard in law school. If you are still practicing, why are you wasting you valuable time here? Let them think what ever they want. What I did learn in law school is that when a person’s constitutional rights are at stake, we as members of the legal profession must be extraordinarily careful to insure that due process is followed and the truth of any given matter is attained. As to persons on the no fly list, what are their due process protections and what is… Read more »

    Tony York
    Guest
    Tony York

    I would love to meet this ‘majority’ of NRA members who do not support the slippery slope idea… I have been a member for years and have yet to meet one that is in favor of any further gun control.

    daves
    Guest
    daves

    Tony York: I said that “the majority of gun owners including NRA members support treasonable regulations” which I would include things such as universal background checks. You misinterpreted what I said and suggested that I said “any reasonable regulation CREATED BY LIBERALS TO TAKE OUR GUNS AWAY. . . .” Not what I said and not what I meant.

    Tony York
    Guest
    Tony York

    no you did not you said quote ”

    To suggest that any reasonable “regulation” is a slippery slope created by liberals to take our guns away is not supported by the majority of NRA members”
    unquote.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @daves, What the heck is ” treasonable regulations” ?

    daveS
    Guest
    daveS

    Tony York – My bad. You are correct. I should not try to work and comment at the same time. Wild Bill “reasonable” not “treasonable.” Again my mistake. No more comments (for now) after a long day.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @daves, No, actually we don’t support gun control, but only the Second Amendmend. Now daves. Now, as to persons on the no fly list, what are their due process protections and what is the nature of the forum available to them?

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    daves is sounding less and less like a lawyer all the time. Curious.

    David
    Guest
    David

    I was on the wrong end of a restraining order. I was working doing repairs for a condo association in Florida when a female resident who was fighting eviction came by the unit and stuck her head and shoulders in a window opening and started snapping pictures. I had been warned about this luny and told to keep her away.. Long story short I made her leave with-out touching her and a week later was served with a domestic abuse restraining order. When asked for my guns I lied and said I had none. This order was signed by a… Read more »

    JoeUSooner
    Guest
    JoeUSooner

    You are badly, badly mistaken. Years ago, I was on the receiving end of a DVRO, and I was not amused. [At a dinner party, a young woman became inebriated, and physically attacked the host (I was in another room entirely). When two other attendees stepped between the attacker and the host, the attacker quickly backed away from the two interlopers, and struck her shoulder blade on a pantry door. I entered the room, and the inebriated woman yelled at me and – unescorted – she left the building.] Two days later, the DVRO was signed by a local judge,… Read more »

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    SOMEONE doesn’t understand SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. SOMEONE doesn’t understand what UNALIENABLE means. Someone needs to have their enforcers shot in the head. THAT my friends is what the 2nd amendment is FOR. To shoot TYRANTS and their ENFORCERS.

    Don L. Bailey
    Guest
    Don L. Bailey

    Every time we have an event like Sutherland Springs, there will always be people yelling, “Do something!”, “Call, write your legislators!” The problem is that we’ve already had hundreds of different kinds of laws written and put on the books and unless the law enforcement data bases are kept up to date and current, no amount of new legislation, local and federal, will amount to a hill of beans. We already have good solid laws on the books. We the people have the right to possess firearms for our self protection of ourselves and our neighbors. No one will take… Read more »

    JoeUSooner
    Guest
    JoeUSooner

    Thank you, David

    Clark Kent
    Guest
    Clark Kent

    Yes; thank you David for making unsubstantiated predictions based upon no factual events and pulled from your imagination. Try predicting lottery numbers instead; you will have better luck.

    Darren
    Guest
    Darren

    @CK When you have no arguments to present there’s always Saul Alinsky’s rule #5
    “Ridicule is mans most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also
    it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.”

    Darren
    Guest
    Darren

    Great article David. Now let’s connect all the dots. Confiscation, heck any gun control at all, is only possible if the govt has forces that can enforce it. John Trenchard & many of the Founders warned against having a standing army so the govt wouldn’t have the power to oppress. Today, the “standing army” that we have to worry about domestically is the huge law enforcement establishment. I’m talking about not only state and local police but also agencies like the Internal Revenue Service, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives, the Drug Enforcement… Read more »

    BJI
    Guest
    BJI

    The hugh standing army is SO BIG that the AVERAGE response time to a 911 call IS EIGHT MINUTES!!!

    Silence Dogood
    Guest
    Silence Dogood

    Let me get this straight…

    Some Bureaucrats neglect to “report” a required ruling to “other” Bureaucrats…innocent people die as the result…the surviving victims and victim’s family’s can’t “sue” the first Bureaucrats due to “sovereign immunity laws”…so the answer is to send in “armed” bureaucrats to shoot others.

    Did I get that right…

    Chuckbone56
    Guest
    Chuckbone56

    Silence, You have stated the clear truth. I fear and loathe our government. Try as we might to vote the snakes out, I fear there is to be a reckoning. Hold on to your weapons by any means available.