Volunteer Church Member Stops Attacker in Church Gunfight

Volunteer Church Member Stops Attacker in Church Gunfight
Volunteer Church Member Stops Attacker in Church Gunfight

Arizona -(Ammoland.com)- On Wednesday, 28 March, 2018, the West Maypole Avenue Church of Christ was having a Bible study that started at 7:30 p.m. At 8:09 p.m., the study was interrupted by 27-year-old Kenneth Baines, who announced an armed robbery. A 57-year-old armed church member was seated inside. The church member was legally armed and had a concealed carry permit.

It seems likely that he was a member of a voluntary church security team, as later reports refer to him as a “security guard”, but no report mentions that he had a security guard license, or that he was paid as a security guard. From suntimes.com on 29 March, 2018:

A 57-year-old man was sitting in a the church at 8:09 p.m. in the 4400 block of West Maypole when a 27-year-old man walked in and announced a robbery, according to Chicago Police.

Maypole Avenue Church of Christ is located at 4400 W. Maypole.

The two men then started shooting at each other, police said. The older man was struck in the left arm and taken to Mount Sinai Hospital in good condition. The robber was shot multiple times in the chest and was in critical condition at Stroger Hospital.

The 57-year-old legally owned his gun, police said.

From the Maypole Ave Church of Christ Facebook page:

“We solemnly pray for our brother in Christ and the perpetrator of this heinous deed.”

To be a paid and armed security guard in Chicago, a special permit is required, 40 additional hours of training to be armed, and they need to be employed by a by a company with special licensing and liability insurance.

It seems unlikely that a church would go to the expense of several hundreds of dollars of licensing fees and the liability insurance when it could use volunteers with concealed carry licenses at no cost or additional insurance.

This is particularly true for an evening Bible study in the middle of the week. Churches have numerous such events. They are seldom targets of robberies, for donations are not usually collected there. Paying a security company for a licensed security guard would be prohibitively expensive for most small churches. Few would be willing to spend the thousands of dollars necessary when most churches will have members who have police or military training, and who are familiar with firearms.  Members who would be glad to serve the church at no cost.

That is the case at my church, where I am a member of the church security team.

The coverage of the gunfight in the Maypole Avenue Church of Christ, except for the earliest reports, call the church member who shot the armed robbery suspect a “security guard”.  This gives the misleading impression that he was a paid and licensed professional, rather than a church volunteer.

This is important because of the ongoing debate about whether ordinary people are capable of acting in defense of themselves and others.  Licensed security guards are heavily regulated and controlled by the State. Because of federal court cases about the Second Amendment, shall issue concealed carry permits are available to the vast majority of Illinois residents with much less effort.

Calling a church volunteer a “security guard” while ignoring their voluntary status, makes it seem that only professionals can be trusted with this duty. This was done in the case of Jeanne Assam, who stopped a mass killing at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs in 2007.

The name of the church volunteer has not been released. If any reader has personal knowledge of this case, please help us confirm the status of the 57-year-old defender.

©2018 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.

Link to Gun Watch


About Dean WeingartenDean Weingarten

Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of constitutional carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and recently retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.

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Joe Brown
Joe Brown
2 years ago

As one that has died, faced Jesus, and been forced to return to this earth to prepare and do things not always blatantly obvious, let me say I have walked thru the flames of homes on fire, transported medical immediates, faced down drunks with knives trying to kill me, been shot at, had my body destroyed by a drunk driver, watched as my unborn baby crashed and flatlined three times, my wife crying, the joy of his birth, the sadness of the loss of a daughter’s twin. Our God wants us to prepare. He told me I had things left… Read more »

Bill
Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Joe Brown

You shouldn’t have had to been forced to return if you were willing to honor the agreement that you made when you came.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Bill

Human rules of contract. Really?

Mike
Mike
2 years ago

Some additional alleged information about the evil-doer:

http://chronicleillinois.com/news/cook-county-news/felon-charged-in-west-side-church-shooting/

Still not sure exactly what the facts are.

Gene
Gene
2 years ago

Thx for posting article. Read Nehemiah 4:13-23. Covers risk assessment, work while holding a sword, spear, bow, protecting family with God’s help, being armed even while getting water, and diligent even to the point of sleeping in clothes and armed. Ezekiel 33 – as God’s vigilant watchman Daniel & Goliath. Daniel took 5 stones because Goliath had 4 brothers. Daniel was trained in sling useage because he had already killed a lion and bear as a shepherd. More difficult targets (lion likely at night) than Goliath. Luke 22 – instructors to disciples to sell cloak and buy weapon (sword) if… Read more »

Jack A Furbush
Jack A Furbush
2 years ago
Reply to  Gene

It’s all well and good that you can quote the bible, but it doesn’t apply in this type of situation. One of the many gifts the Lord our God gave to us is free will. We are souly responsible for our actions not God. With the blessing of free will comes the fact of life that some humans are evil and walk among us. It’s our responsibility to deal with them not Gods for he nither rewards or punishes us on earth. He loves us all with out conditions. Even evil people come to him at the end of mortal… Read more »

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Jack A Furbush

@JAF, “We are souly responsible for our actions…” That is the best pun that I have read or heard so far this year! My hat is off to you!

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Gene

@Gene, wasn’t that David and Goliath?

Mutt
Mutt
2 years ago

Wondering why my comment was not published? No foul language so why was it scrubbed before it ever made it to the board here?????

Jack Heppell
Jack Heppell
2 years ago
Reply to  Mutt

Would be nice if the state, province, country was posted at the eginning of an article so we would know if its crapperville, zier, pinibongo or wherever

Brian David Andersen
Brian David Andersen
2 years ago

Bill,
Journalism tip:
Next time your write an article, state the time, date and place (city & state) of the incident in the first paragraph. The article never states the city.

Henry
Henry
2 years ago

“To be a paid and armed security guard in Chicago, a special permit is required…”

But point taken, WAY too late.

Jack A Furbush
Jack A Furbush
2 years ago
Reply to  Henry

Being a member of the church dosent make you an armed professional security guard even if there is some type of agreements with members to be armed and act as such, just as you don’t have to be a licensed chief to cook the for the church dinner. As long as carrying a weapon on church property isn’t illegal or prohibited by the church.

William Flatt
William Flatt
2 years ago

GOD, GUNS AND GUTS MADE AMERICA.
Let’s keep all three!

I carry at my church, just as our colonial forefathers brought their arms to church, to guard against indian attacks etc. Today we might not deal with indians, but there are criminals, terrorists, and mentally deranged people out there who may attack a church like what recently happened in Texas. We should always carry wherever we go, JUST BECAUSE.

A Right that is not exercised is a Right that is lost!

Richard Smith
Richard Smith
2 years ago
Reply to  William Flatt

I would rather have 12 judging me than 6 carrying me.

Jack A Furbush
Jack A Furbush
2 years ago
Reply to  William Flatt

Exactly

Bill
Bill
2 years ago

If God is everything he is billed to be, why would any of his churches have a security team?

tomcat
tomcat
2 years ago
Reply to  Bill

God founded the human as a free entity and does not interfere with actions and interactions we do to ourselves and others. That is why being able to defend yourself is a God given right.

Jack Furbush
Jack Furbush
2 years ago
Reply to  tomcat

Very true. God nither punishes or rewards us for our lives on earth. We have the free Will to make our own way through life. It’s up to us to use the gifts he gave us. We have the smarts and the tools to protect our lives and property and our fellow humans. We need to use them. Stop running to the Government to protect you, they can’t. If you don’t think you’re life is worth protecting then step aside and let those who do value life defend it.

Bill
Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Jack Furbush

Threatening non-believers with hell must not be very punishing by your reckoning.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Bill

, Never faced armor, huh.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

, If you believed in God, you would understand about the gift of freewill. Sorry about my previous comment.

Bud
Bud
2 years ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

There will come a day when he will believe there is a God. But that may be too late unless he repents.

William Charles
William Charles
2 years ago
Reply to  Bill

Well Bill, Let’s take a look using these verses below as an example opposed to what many today believe in that the God of the Bible is a weak, uncaring incompetent woosie in comparison to what He says He really is. God says in Exodus 15:3 “The Lord is a warrior, the Lord is His name;” Isaiah 42:13 says that “The Lord will go forth like a warrior.” And in Exodus 32:27; 1 Chronicles 14:16; Deuteronomy 3:18; Ezekiel 37:10; Joshua 8:1-2; Psalm 18:34 and Psalm 144:1 again God says that He is a Man of War. And David said that… Read more »

Bud
Bud
2 years ago

Excellent response. . Nothing beats scripture for pure truth.

Bill
Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Bud

The problem is with the multiple translations of the transliteration of what was written by men in the first place.
I am a Christian atheist, and I won’t expect anyone who is a simple Christian to understand that is not a contradiction in terms.

Basil Foster
Basil Foster
2 years ago
Reply to  Bill

Please help this simple Christian understand how it is not a contradiction. How can one claim to be a Disciple of Christ, God-the-Son, and at the same time believe there is no God?
That appears to be, not just a contradiction, but a statement of mutually exclusive terms.

Bill
Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Bill

I am not a disciple of anyone. Jesus Christ is my lord, not my leader.
Since he is a stand-alone adept, with full control over matter and energy on his own, why should he or anyone else need a deity?
I do not understand how medical doctors who are Christians can rip a human fetus apart with forceps without recognizing that it is murder.

Jack A Furbush
Jack A Furbush
2 years ago

You’re on the whrite plain. I’ve killed many men in my life, but have never murderd anyone. In every instance it was my life or his, it’s just that simple. I’ve never lost a wink of sleep over any of them. If someone believes I should have they are a fool. If it’s my life or his it’s not going to be mine.

tomcat
tomcat
2 years ago
Reply to  Bill

Where is my comment back to Bill concerning God put us here on earth as free people and has given us commandments that we should live by. We were not developed as puppets.

Ray Jones
Ray Jones
2 years ago
Reply to  tomcat

when you are in christ you want to be like him in every way most will copy him through the words he spoke some will copy him through the way they act and even fewer folks will copy him by giving up free will and doing only the will of the father…..so in answer to your qeustion yes i would pray to be a puppet on a string and do only the will of the father……

William Charles
William Charles
2 years ago
Reply to  Bill

Bill. I do believe in God and know what He says. Also if you believe in “Free Will” what exactly is free will? Do people have it? Does God have it? How free is God’s will? Can He do what He wants? Can we do what we want? The Bible teaches that I’m not free to choose God because it is contrary to my nature. That’s why we need new natures that are given to us by the Holy Spirit at regeneration. Unless a man is born again he cannot enter or even see the kingdom of God (John 3).… Read more »

Jack A Furbush
Jack A Furbush
2 years ago

All of this bible thumping is getting way of point. The fact of life is if more Americans exorsize this God given wright There would be far fewer mass shootings

PJan InTx
PJan InTx
2 years ago
Reply to  Bill

Because all people get to freely choose good deeds and evil deeds. But you already knew that.

Bill
Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  PJan InTx

A increasing number of people are becoming inspired by SSRIs.

Bravas
Bravas
2 years ago
Reply to  Bill

Because of free will, of course. While some use their free will to follow God, others use their free will to commit heinous, evil acts. That’s why even churches are wise to be prepared. Especially as our society becomes more and more atheistic and the media paints Christians as the enemy.

Bill
Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Bravas

Free will has nothing to do with suicidal and homicidal ideation.
Christiandom breaks down to a civil war among 200 disparate denominations.

Jack A Furbush
Jack A Furbush
2 years ago
Reply to  Bill

God isn’t responsible for the deeds people do. We are. People need to quit looking for something or someone else to fix the blame on for what they do. Take responsibility for you’re actions, protect you’re life not just in Church any place you go it’s the most valuable thing you’ll ever have. If it’s not worth protecting to you Any way you can you truly are a fool. Americans are one of the few people in the world that are citizens not subjects. We are born with wrights. One of them is to keep and bare arms of the… Read more »

Bill
Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Jack A Furbush

If you believe that you are not a subject, you are already lost.
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will
be.”
–Thomas Jefferson to C. Yancey, 1816.

Jack A Furbush
Jack A Furbush
2 years ago
Reply to  Bill

Because the evil walks among us. It always has. That’s not God’s doing it’s man’s. It’s up to men to stop it. Unfortunately the mice outnumber the men. This is way evil has the upper hand over the Sheepel. If anyone doesn’t feel that their life is worth protecting then continue to walk around thinking someone else will protect it for you. Lot’s of luck with that. I’m a retired cop with 33 years on the job, 7 on the LAPD. I’m here to tell you police don’t prevent they respond and response time is 8 to 18 minutes. Most… Read more »

Bill
Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Jack A Furbush

If evil has always walked among us, who created it if God didn’t?
Man hasn’t been around as long as evil.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Bill

, God gave us free will. Some people choose to do good. Some people choose to do evil. Man invented evil. Your assertion that “Man hasn’t been around as long as evil.” is quite wrong.

Bill
Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Wild Bill

It is also strongly indicative that you are as psychotic as any other bible-thumper I’ve ever dismissed, so it is wash and repeat for you.
This thread isn’t worth trying to find on this very user unfriendly platform.

William Charles
William Charles
2 years ago

I commend this man for taking care of business. Fortunately living in Montana now after moving from the People’s Repubic of Kalifornia and working with the Sheriff’s Office there for a number of years, here in Montana no one truly needs a CCW as anyone who can legally own a gun can carry it openly. Although a number of my friends here do have CCWs I don’t, because I want the person I may come in contact with to know that I am armed and I don’t want a coat, jacket. shirt etc. to hinder my draw as seconds count… Read more »

PJan InTx
PJan InTx
2 years ago

I know a couple of folks from Montana, and they have their concealed permit because of reciprocity with other states – they can travel to (some) other states and not worry about stepping on statutory toes while carrying. That’s the only reason they bothered. Might be some of your friends’ reasons too. I am a member of Texas Law Shield, which is competition for a similar service offered by the NRA. Both provide legal assistance, immediately and free of charge (because of your very reasonable paid membership) if you have to use a weapon and there is police involvement. Volunteers… Read more »

Bill
Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  PJan InTx

Why would they need reciprocity from a human government which is denied the legitimacy of infringing anyone’s right to keep and bear as provided by their creator?
Since police departments are standing armies, perhaps it is time to stop giving them quarter in civilian populations, as the Third Amendment specifies.

Jack A Furbush
Jack A Furbush
2 years ago

I’m sure you’re opinion of open carry vs conceal carry makes sense to you. You’re over looking some of the facts of life here. Open carry makes you likely to be the shooters first target or a tempting robbery victim to take you’re gun. A pipe or hammer to the back of the head while you’re being distracted by the punk in front of you is normally how that works. These animals aren’t afraid of cops, they have no fear of you either. Drawing from concel carry isn’t practically slower than open carry if you train regularly as you should.… Read more »

Bill
Bill
2 years ago

Where does concealed or open carry need to be designated in the Second Amendment when concealed carry was more common in the late 18th century than open carry was? Since it is not so designated, why should it matter to the law abiding?

Kent Clizbe
Kent Clizbe
2 years ago

Dean,

Looking for an update on the status of the defensive shooter, but there does not seem to be any additional details publicly available on him. The church’s publicly released statement only mentioned “security” in passing, without providing details.

However, my research did stumble onto this source for “gun violence” statistics:

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/defensive-use

It looks like a pretty even-handed compiler of real statistics.

This church shooting is recorded as a ‘defensive use” and the defender is recorded as a “victim,” the robber as a “suspect.”

Never seen this before myself. Hope it’s useful.

All the best.

Kent

Tionico
Tionico
2 years ago

Perhaps this black-hearted thief will take advantage of his Road to Damascus encounterand realise the direction of his life was, until that point, a short road to death and perdition. Let us hope he is carefully weighing some serious matters as he is immobilised for a season. Sometimes facing something far bigger than one’s own selfish desires can awaken one to a larger perspective. He could easily have been killed instantly, then be face to face with his Maker. Fork in the road, perhaps?

William L Butler
William L Butler
2 years ago

Let us not forget that David was taught how to use a slingshot to defeat evil, Amen?

durabo
durabo
2 years ago

I understand that Goliath’s Philistine next-of-kin blamed the National Rock Association (NRA) following the giant’s death, as reported by the comrades in the LameStream EneMedia.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  durabo

, that is the funniest thing that I have read today!

Oldvet
Oldvet
2 years ago
Reply to  durabo

@durabo…Got any words of wisdom for Wild Bill concerning loading the ARK looks like he is getting some heavy rain.. We are at 31 degrees strong wind talking snow or sleet. Can’t find his post to you hope he sees this.

Wild Bill
Wild Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Oldvet

@OV and big D, Boy howdy did it rain. I saw a dog chasing a cat and they were both doing the back stroke!

Don Prather
Don Prather
2 years ago

I’d like to thank AMMOLAND for this article. Perhaps since it does not fit their narrative, this has not been covered in the mainstream. It deserves coverage on several levels.

Most small to medium-sized churches do not have formal security teams. Many do have, however, honorable men like the one in this story who are willing to protect their fellow-members. He is to be respected.

Dave Brown
Dave Brown
2 years ago

Why is everything a right and a left thing? We don’t know a thing about The Good Guy yet we figure he has to be on the whatever side. Me I say good for him, and how about we pray for him as he was injured and also was involved in a serious situations. How about all of US, the right, left, center simply pray for a Man we know little about. However we know he was praying for others, and I am guessing he still is.

mik
mik
2 years ago

the family will say all he wanted to do was rob didnt deserve to die just for a simple robbery

Raymond Miller
Raymond Miller
2 years ago
Reply to  mik

If you choose to be a roofer and fall and kill your self, it’s the chance you take for the profession you chose. If you choose to be a criminal and get your a** shot that’s the chance you take for choosing that line of work. TFS if the family don’t like it.

Jim Macklin
Jim Macklin
2 years ago
Reply to  mik

Then he should not have taken his gun to church..

SuperG
SuperG
2 years ago

Sad that the brave man got shot, and I’m glad it was not serious. After the perpetrator gets his free medical care, I can only hope he dies, so God can judge him. You’ll find sympathy between shit and syphilis in the dictionary, and aptly so. When a man steals food, I have sympathy, when he robs people I do not.

Bill
Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  SuperG

I have always been told by every retailer that I have worked for to give them the money because my life is worth more. Apparently this is not true in churches.

Bud
Bud
2 years ago
Reply to  Bill

And that is exactly what thieves count on. When no one takes a stand the thief not only wins he continues to win. Having been robbed as a store manager I can attest to that truth.

Jack A Furbush
Jack A Furbush
2 years ago
Reply to  Bill

It’s not the same thing in lite of the number of church shootings. If you shot a man because he stuck a gun or knife in you’re face and said gimme you’re money or you’re life, you shot him because he just told you he will take you’re life. If you won’t defend the most pressies thing you own what’s wrong with you? It’s got nothing to do with you’re wallet numnuts

Douglas Kuykendall
Douglas Kuykendall
2 years ago

You better believe it is nice to hear about the good people coming out on top,but what you won’t see is the news highlights reels running full steam telling about it. Just look at the school shooting in the communist state of Maryland where the shooter was took in a matter of short minutes.There was no all day running same loop over an over again

Wayne Clark
Wayne Clark
2 years ago

Apparently, the focus will now be on whether or not he was a “paid” security guard, not if he was a church member that acted on the benefit of the church. The left ALWAYS s to twist things around to suit their narrative & it’s sad. Bottom line…the bad guy lost!

eaglesnester
eaglesnester
2 years ago

Bless the lord and pass the ammunition. This famous quote from Pearl Harbor Hawaii December 7yh 1941 by a Navy Chaplin who found himself as part of a AA gun crew.

Inidaho
Inidaho
2 years ago
Reply to  eaglesnester

Great comment!!!! Excellent quote!!!! Thanks!!!!

Robert Bissett
Robert Bissett
2 years ago
Reply to  eaglesnester

Did a quick search. Should read: “Praise the Lord…”

Jimbo66
Jimbo66
2 years ago

Yeah, calling the guy a security guard or something like that is exactly what the left would do. I don’t understand why the church would put themselves in a position of liability when the only thing they did was allowed concealed carriers to carry in the church. A lot still don’t alow it to their future regret I’ll l bet. Nice story Dean. It’s nice to see the stories of a good guy with a gun saving people.

Jim Macklin
Jim Macklin
2 years ago

One thing is certain, street thugs and armed robbers are not the brightest bulb in Chicago. If this one survives he can get a job on the city council where robbery is more formalized.

durabo
durabo
2 years ago

In case of disruption during the Mass, my fellow parishioners will hit the deck, I will intercept the threat, and my Anglican priest will beck me up with his own handgun. This includes terminal action against anyone rushing in, yelling, “Allahu akhbar!” since no prosecutor would question the fact that parishioners would have been in fear for life and limb.

I am fortunate to reside in Arizona, where the 2A is a given.

Terry
Terry
2 years ago

Question the article mentions that with a Volunteer security team that there would be no need for the church to secure additional liability insurance. Our church here in Houston voiced another opinion that there was a great liability for the church for a CHL person acting on behave of themselves or others, whether as acting as an individual or as a volunteer security team.

Would any of the Readers have any legal references to this question?

PJ InTx
PJ InTx
2 years ago
Reply to  Terry

I would like to suggest asking Texas Law Shield this question, especially since you are in Houston. I am a member, since 2015, as is my husband. Their purpose is to provide legal representation to individuals in case they have to draw their weapon. They have seminars frequently all over Texas,
Your church may have a way to either provide a membership for your in-house carrying individuals, or they may have a special plan for you since you are a church. Contact them at TexasLawShield.com or 1020 Bay Area Blvd, Suite 220, Houston, TX 77058

Tionico
Tionico
2 years ago
Reply to  Terry

I’m somehwat familiar with carry in churches in Texas. It is up to the church members, sometimgs through their leaders, to make the call.. will WE allow folks to carry in here or will be demand this be a Certified Defenseless Victim Zone? I’ve been close to a rather small church (maybe 100 folks, and not knowing otherwise (no signs saying I can’t) I carried on in as I do at home (another state). After meeting, during the social time, I got to “size up” some of the people I had just met. One man I pegged as ex military,… Read more »

Old Dawg
Old Dawg
2 years ago
Reply to  Terry

I am not an attorney, but if you are concerned about church safety and liability, I see at least three options, for your church to consider: 1. Hire armed and certified security guards and pay for additional liability insurance. 2. Use unpaid, volunteer members with a CHL, for security and pay for additional liability insurance. 3. Do nothing, but maybe post 30.06 and 30.07 signs and declare your church a Gun Free Zone. With option number 3, you might want to consider that armed criminals don’t obey the law and love to see Texas 30.06, 30.07 and Gun Free Signs,… Read more »

Mutt
Mutt
2 years ago
Reply to  Old Dawg

Yeah, y’all go suck on the goverment tit, instead of obeying the Lord your God.. God told men to protect themselves, their families and strangers in their gates. Not a single time does He EVER say to pay for a license from a satanic goverment, that hates God with a passion to be able to do what HE told ya to do.. It’s better to obey God than man and if you’re a TRUE christian, you have no God but Jesus.Period………………….. David says it like it is and it’s never changed since then.. Why do the heathen rage, and the… Read more »

Jack A Furbush
Jack A Furbush
2 years ago
Reply to  Old Dawg

If you actually tried to sue the church that would be tossed out because of no merret. A. you have no standing to sue the church because they didn’t shoot you and B. You had no obligation to attend church. You don’t seem to understand that you enter any public place at you’re own risk. Unless that church knew or should have known that incedent was likely to occur, it was beyond their reasonable control. The burden of proof is 100% on you to prove that baced on a preponderance of the facts you precent to a jury that you’re… Read more »

PJ InTx
PJ InTx
2 years ago
Reply to  Terry

Yes. Iposted this once and will try again. Try USA Law Shield or Texas Law Shield. Offices in Houston. Very reasonable rates. I’ve been a member since 2015. May have a deal for a church.

Old Dawg
Old Dawg
2 years ago
Reply to  Terry

Terry, I thought I added a reply to your question, but it must have not gone through. My brother’s church, as well as I would imagine a number of other churches and businesses are facing this same issue. I am not an attorney, or an insurance agent, so this is just my opinion. My brother retired as a Lieutenant from the Texas Department of Corrections. He served as a unpaid and armed security volunteer for his church, until the his pastor and deacons decided to put up 30.06 and 30.07 signs. My brother immediately told his pastor that he would… Read more »

Robert
Robert
2 years ago

Doing the Lords work!

Marc Disabled Vet
Marc Disabled Vet
2 years ago

Dude got the Surprise of his Life ( if he lives)
Ya Don’t Mess in Gods House !
People have in the past and it Pissed
him Off .So Bad Guys Beware !
Apparently God Has Better AIM .

Bill
Bill
2 years ago

God needs to aim?