New Jersey: Gun Control Bills Pass Legislature, Now Heading to the Governor

Senator Loretta Weinberg
Sen. Loretta Weinberg's (D) bill reduced the minimum magazine capacity restriction from 15 to 10 rounds. We all know what she wants next…

Fairfax, VA – -( Yesterday, the New Jersey Senate passed a package of gun bills which had been previously adopted by the Assembly.  Two of the bills had to be returned to the Assembly for concurrence, and that was quickly done.  These bills were passed despite overwhelming opposition from New Jersey gun owners.

Again, this legislation will have virtually no impact on public safety and do little more than punish law-abiding gun owners.

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S.102 by Sen. Loretta Weinberg (D) which reduces the minimum magazine capacity restriction from 15 to 10 rounds.  The 15-round limit has had no demonstrated effectiveness on improving public safety and it puts law-abiding gun owners at a definite disadvantage in self-defense situations.  There is a reason law enforcement is exempted.  Criminals do not follow magazine capacity restrictions.  A weak grandfathering provision has been adopted whereby gun owners can keep their magazines if they are permanently blocked and the firearm is registered.  The bill passed the Senate on a vote of 23 to 13.

S.160/A.1181 would allow for suspension of gun rights by unaccountable “health professionals.” This bill goes so far as to allow marriage counselors, social workers and nurses to cause suspension of your legal rights.  The bill passed the Senate on a vote of 30 to 5.

S.2376/A.2758 codifies New Jersey’s “justifiable need” standard for the issuance of concealed carry permits. The bill is a striking blow to the basic fundamental right to self-defense outside the home. It creates a standard so onerous that nobody can meet it, hence the issuance of permits in New Jersey is close to non-existent.  The bill passed the Senate on a vote of 24 to 13.

S.2374/A.2757 would require background checks on all firearm transfers. Again, this is redundant because all transactions in New Jersey require a background check. The private transfer of long guns requires an FID card and the issuance of that card requires fingerprinting, a background check and references, among other things. This bill does nothing except add another layer of bureaucracy and fees to an already cumbersome and duplicative process.  The bill passed the Senate on a vote of 31 to 3.

S.2259/A.1217 creates extreme risk protection orders whereby firearms can be seized and constitutional rights suspended with little to no due process. The bill fails to penalize those who fabricate accusations, and it does nothing to improve public safety.  The bill passed the Senate on a vote of 32 to 5.

Thank you to all the NRA members who contacted their legislators.  We will continue to provide more details and analysis of these measures as some of them were amended.  The bills still need to be signed by Gov. Phil Murphy, and some of these bills are almost guaranteed to result in litigation.  Gov. Murphy is expected to sign all of the bills, but it’s important that you contact the Governor and voice your strong opposition.  Silence will only invite more bad legislation. Again, please contact Governor Phil Murphy at 609-292-6000 and strongly urge him to veto all of the above gun control measures.

National Rifle Association Institute For Legislative Action (NRA-ILA)

Established in 1975, the Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) is the “lobbying” arm of the National Rifle Association of America. ILA is responsible for preserving the right of all law-abiding individuals in the legislative, political, and legal arenas, to purchase, possess and use firearms for legitimate purposes as guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Visit:

  • 39 thoughts on “New Jersey: Gun Control Bills Pass Legislature, Now Heading to the Governor

    1. Saddly, New Jerky does not care what the gun owners want. They “the democrats” only care about their own agenda… disarmament of the public under the guise of safety!

      1. Florida is better, but not the best. If you can handle not having to ask the government for permission to exercise your rights, come to Arizona. Humidity is better (low teens currently; we are in the thirtieth year of a twenty-year drought); we have a Republican dominated legislature with about five Republicans who are Democrats just pretending; and if you choose to get an optional CCW permit (not difficult at all) you not only gain reciprocity with some other States, you don’t have to suffer a NICS check when you buy a firearm. Be careful, though; Tucson is about as far-left as Berzerkley, Calfornia, and Phoenix is hotter than the Hammers of Hades in the summer, but up in the Rim Country the climate is much more habitable. Just don’t bring any Nu Joisey expectations with you; we have enough Californians fleeing the Great State of Kalifornicastan and its earthquakes.

        1. Doesn’t Arizona also have an over abundance of rattlesnakes, scorpions, and tarantulas? A bigger concern would be all those moving from California and bringing their leftist ideology with them. Never mind that the policies destroyed the state they came from, they will eventually be in big enough numbers to arrange for illegal aliens to vote and will ruin that state too.

          1. I wouldn’t say an “overabundance” of rattlesnakes, scorpions, and tarantulas. I’ve lived here since December of 1986, and I have done a lot of four-wheeling in the back country. While I have seen a Gila Monster on a dirt track once, I have never seen a rattlesnake in the wild. Walk with a heavy footfall and you will likely never see one. I’ve only seen two scorpions; one was in a child’s schoolbook on the school bus I was driving; the screaming was deafening. I dumped it out on the ground and squashed it. The other was in my second-floor kitchen a couple of weeks ago, and it was already dead. If you don’t want scorpions around, get rid of the crickets, If you want to get rid of the crickets, you encourage the lizards. As for tarantulas, pet stores sell them as pets. I found a couple of huge spiders, a couple of weeks apart, in the house I bought in a rural area, but the house had been sitting empty on the side of a canyon wall for eight years before I bought it. They were as big a full-grown tarantulas, but I don’t know the breed. Easy to catch with a wide-mouth Mason jar and a piece of thin cardboard over the opening until I could dump them off the deck.
            As for leftists moving in from California, you got that right. After the Granada Hills quake so many of them came here my rent for a 2-BR apartment (back then) increased from $450/month to $750/month inside of six months. That’s why I bought a house with a detached garage, 2-BR and a walk-in finished basement; the monthly payments were cheaper, and it was Rim Country. Mogollon Rim Country. (Pronounced “Muggy-on.”)

        2. As an FYI, it’s Kommieforniastan, Komrad. BTW people go to Hades from Phoenix to cool down. I do love the gun stores in Phoenix, like a kid in a candy store.

          1. You ought to check out the ones in Payson. Their rent is cheaper and their harassment from the jackboots are less. I recommend Rim Country Guns on the Beeline Highway. Tell Scott Helmer (the owner) or Carl (the gunsmith and counter-guy) I sent you.

    2. The one titled S.2259/A 12117 Extreme Risk Protection says firearms seized and CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS SUSPENDED with no due process. What the hell are they smoking in N.J. What gives them the right to suspend residents Constitutional Rights. Who do they think they are? They should be arrested for being stupid enough to put that in writing. Totally unAmerican!

      1. Put yer shekels where yer mouth is and support the 2nd Amendment lawsuit sure to be filed by the Second Amendment Foundation, Gun Owners of America, or even the NRA, or the New Jersey gun rights organization. Join their club if they are viable. Check and see if the New Jersey Constitution protects the right to keep and bear arms. Do something.

      2. I forgot to ask: Do you believe, since they said “Constitutional Rights Suspended,” that they have, in fact, suspended your Constitutional rights? Do you believe they have the authority to do that? Are you going to let them do that?

    3. I believe the author of this article meant to say the bill changes the MAXIMUM capacity of magazines from 15 to 10, not the minimum capacity.

    4. A PM I just sent to Loretta Weinberg:
      “How would you like the opportunity to defend yourself against charges of Malfeasance of office and Perjury of your oath or affirmation of office for your advocacy of confiscation of firearms and destruction of our right to keep and bear arms? You are sworn to uphold and defend the United States Constitution, and that creates a legal presumption you know what it says and you know it is binding on your activities as a State Senator. You think it might be a good idea to constrain yourself to its terms?”

      1. You do realize her staff will simply file your letter in the “nutcase” drawer. Unless you’re a major donor or officially represent an organization with a huge voting block of followers then any letter with a threatening or demanding tone is far more likely to get you a visit from the FBI than accomplish anything constructive. If you really want to write someone in Congress, a state legislature, or even your local government and actually be taken seriously then you need to write in a calm, rational and fact based manner and try to open a line of communication.

        1. I send faxes like that to commies in public office several times a week; been doing so for eight years. No problems with FBI or Secret Service; they recognize free speech when they see it. So far. When they don’t, the cyberverse will hear about it. (Think for a minute about what you just said. If the fear you expressed is valid, we are a lot further down the road toward the Second Bolshevik Revolution than you think we are. Time to speak up a bit more than I have.)

    5. Why would someone with a Jewish heritage promote laws such as these when it was almost identical laws the Nazis used to disarm the Jewish population prior to exterminating millions in death camps. It’s mind blowing!

      1. @RAS….There is an old politically incorrect joke that asks why Hitler didn’t kill all the fake Khazarian Jooos, and the answer was that he left some so that future generations would see why he did what he did. Actually, Hitler had up to 150,000 Eastern European AshkeNAZI Khazars in his Wermacht. Some were very high rank, and many were work camp guards who made sure their fellow jooos suffered greatly in the camps. Read “Hitler’s Jewish Soldiers” by Riggs for a long list of many, thoroughly documented. After the war, these Zio-Nazi Khazars went to Israhell, bombed it into existence, and genicided thousands upon thousands of disarmed Palestinians, stealing their land, houses, and everything else they could get their grubby hands on. Now there is a fifth column of these nasty parasites in the USA, and they have their Project TALPIOT, and their Kalergi Plan that THEY ARE TRYING TO implement here. But in order for it to be successful, they must first disarm all of America. That’s where c*nts like WhiningBerg, and BloomBerg, and LautenBerg come in. They speak TREASON in the halls of Congress to the alleyways of every city, corrupting the pillars of our Republic. Soon she will be Whining that this is hate speech, and she is just a innocent little grandmother praying in the desert, minding her own business, when suddenly all these people started attacking her. Or she will bring up the phoney holohoax and accuse me of being antisemetic, when she knows full well that she has no Semetic DNA at all.

        1. Well, that’s the last of THAT kind of crap I want to hear. That is the kind of nonsense the opposition uses to discredit all gun owners. What those bastards are doing has nothing to do with being Jewish, Kazar or otherwise. They need to be systematically and implacably opposed, but calling attention to whatever relationship they have to Judaism destroys your credibility completely. And claiming the Holocaust was a hoax makes you look like a moron, and that reflects on gun owners too. With so-called ‘friends’ claiming idiocies like that, who needs enemies? (And no, I’m not Jewish.)

          1. @Cline….I am very well aware that there are good and honorable “Jews” and Khazars around the world and in the USA. Take for example the anti-Zionist Torah True Jews who number at least 10,000 in NYC who go by the name Neturei Karta (Keepers of the Garden, or similar), and there are others like minded in Israel and scattered around the world.. That’s why I specifically mention the Zio-Nazi Talmudic branch. They are the ruling clique in Israel and the Likud party. Many of them also have a stranglehold on the American gov (check out “Sen. Cynthia McKinney and the Pledge), the Federal Reserve, and most of the “Dual Citizen NeoCons”, who wrote the PNAC paper in Y2K calling for a New Pearl Harbor, which magically happened on 9-11-01, if you will recall. These types of AshkeNAZI Khazars, posing as the Chosen descendants of Abraham, are nothing more than a clique of land grabbing genicidal maniacs who have most people brainwashed, bribed, and blackmailed. Especially in the Hallowed Halls of Congress, where they can order votes for the disarmament of the American people in the furtherance of their Project Talpiot and their Kalergi Plan. And the sooner you wake up to the facts and get over your cognitive dissonance, the better off you will be.

            1. Bullsh–. If that were true, it would have occurred during the ZERO’Bama misadministration as well, and it did not. Quite the opposite, in fact. It’s the same kind of crap I hear about the Freemasons and every other organization someone figures they can sound knowledgeable if they claim their are guilty of some kind of conspiracy. And btw, the thing that sealed the deal was your intimation that the Holocaust was a hoax. No one who makes that kind of remark has any credibility left. Six million Jews weren’t the only victims of the Nazi killing machine, but they were victims.

          2. @Cline…Was the holicaust for real ? That’s hard to say because after WW1 (ONE) was over, the newspapers worldwide, in bold print at the top of page 1 (ONE), said “World Zionism Council Claims 6,000,000 Dead From The War” (World War One, mind you). Now let’s fast forward to 1933 and the Jewish Almanac and the World Almanac say that Jewish population worldwide was 15,315,000. Now let’s fast forward to 1948, and both of those publications put the Jewish population at 15,753,000. So, doing Talmudic Kabbalah Zio-Nazi math, 15,753,000 minus 15,325,000 equals -6,000,000 (negative 6,000,000). And, about that same time 1948, the International Red Cross published figures of 272,000 people died in German custody, only half of them were Jooos. Now, somebody is lying somewhere. Either the Jewish Almanac, the World Almanac, and the Red Cross are all a bunch of liars with mixed up numbers, or the Zio-Nazi Khazars were juggling the figures for the shoa-business and all the reparations for the millions upon millions of holohaux survivors. All I know is that we never heard of any gas chambers or ovens and lampshades and soap and shrunken heads until Hollywood put out the movie “Mein Kampph” in 1960 or so. Which is not surprising since we never ever heard of Kaufman book “Germany Must Perish !” Which came out in March 1941, six months before Pearl Harbor. In that book, written by Kaufman, a jooo from Elizabeth NJ, called for the forced sterilization of everyone of the 70,000,000 (Seventy million) people with German ancestry in the world. All the other jooos who owned magazines like TIME and LIFE, and all the others thought that was a wonderful idea, and wrote op ed pieces for their screeds. It was going to be their “final solution to the German problem”. Now where have we heard that phrase before ?

            1. Clearly, while you admit it is hard to say, it doesn’t appear hard for you to say. Bigotry and especially anti-Semitism tends to work that way. I have made mine: “Six million Jews” is the accepted (but unacceptable) number, but I am not going to quibble over plus or minus a million when nine genocides in the last 100+ years has seen the murder of between 74 million and 90 million innocent citizens of various countries, every one of which was preceded by suckering the citizens into giving up their firearms, just as the sophomoric infants of the March for our Lives movement are currently advocating.
              BTW, I just came across their ‘policy manifesto’ on their Facebook page, and here it is with my comments following each plank:

              Well, let’s see here: I’m afraid “March For Our Lives – Policy” sounds like a wet dream of the American Communist Party. Are you a Communist, Renato? But thank you for laying it all out. Anyone with an education beyond the level of college sophomore (Greek word meaning “wise fool”) can see exactly where it came from and what is its objective.

              We should have a look at how likely it is this legislative thuggery to come to pass” Item #1: Fund for Gun Violence Research. Sorry! We’ve been there, done that. And the CDC had their chief researcher, Dr. Arthur Kellerman, trump up bogus statistical studies claiming, for example, that because 97 out of one hundred people who committed suicide in Seattle did so with a firearm, firearms must cause suicide. Oh, please! Congress defunded CDC’s gun violence research because it was engaging in fraud (as all anti-rights folks do). It will not be re-funded, or if it ever is, no one will take it seriously.

              Item #2: “Eliminate absurd restrictions on the ATF.” Frankly, the restrictions on the ATF are nowhere near restrictive enough. The agency should not exist; there is no Constitutional authority for an agency enforcing restrictions on the fundamental (and Constitutionally-protected) right of the people to keep and bear arms. And the ATF has a long history of fraud, including ZERO’Bama’s and Holder’s “Fast and Furious” scam funneling weapons to the Mexican drug cartels to justify stricter gun controls in the U.S. — such as those you are now subversively proposing.

              Item #3: “Universal Background Checks.” Really? Have you ever heard of our 4th, 5th, 9th, and 10th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution? The illegal background checks we have to endure now to exercise our rights have never prevented a crime or criminal access to a firearm in the history of the unConstitutional Brady Act that started them, and were never intended to. They are intended to sucker citizens into waiving their right to be secure from search of their papers and effects without probable cause, waiving their right to due process before rights may be taken, waiving their right to be secure from being compelled to give up a right in order to exercise a right, AND waiving their right to be secure from the federal exercise of authority not delegated to the federal government and from the State exercise of authority prohibited to the States by the Constitution. The slimy thugs who thought that crap up figure when they revoke the bogus permission issued at the point of sale, folks won’t have any rights left with which to defend themselves. Sorry, dude (or ‘dudette,’ is ‘Renato’ a male or female name?) but government has no lawful authority to scam us out of our rights, either. You lose.

              Item #4: “High cpacity Magazine ban.” Sorry, Dude (Dudette), but the purpose of recognizing our right to keep and bear arms is to make government uncomfortable with oppressive regulation such as you advocate, and we will not allow you to chip away at our ability to do so. Get used to disappointment.

              Item #5: “Limit firing power on the streets.” (Comprehensive semi-automatic “assault rifle” ban.) Aside from being ignorant of the fact that there is no such thing as a “semi-automatic assault rifle,” boy, the communists would really like to do that, wouldn’t they? It would make their Second Bolshevik Revolution so much easier, wouldn’t it? Yeah, I know; the SBR has been hanging fire ever since the first ‘Assault Weapon Ban’ didn’t work, and now Trump has pulled the rug out from under Slithering Hillry and her commie coterie. Be careful what you wish for, Renato; you won’t like the result. Those of us who believe in the first, only, and possibly last nation on the planet to be founded upon principles of liberty under the rule of law are getting pretty fed up with your ilk.

              Item #6: “Funding for intervention programs.” Oh, stop. Everything you want to do requires more taxes, which is a plank of the Communist Manifesto. We don’t need intervention programs to be corrupted into gun ban programs, Renato; what we need is for statist thugs to butt out of our free country.

              Item #7: “Extreme Risk protection orders.” Another attack on our right to due process by conviction in a court of law of criminal wrongdoing before property or rights may be confiscated. You really are proving that gun control has nothing to do with guns, but has everything to do with control. You haven’t been able to disarm us (and never will) but now, in desperation, you are trying to deprive us of every other right our right to keep and bear arms protects, aren’t you? Forget it, Renato; we will not comply.

              Item #8: “Disarm all domestic abusers.” Not without a criminal court conviction for assault, Renato. And not without physical evidence and/or third party witness testimony. We will not allow you to make revenge into grounds for the confiscation of our rights.
              Item#9: “Gun trafficking.” There are laws against “gun trafficking” already, but they are legally null and void for want of subject matter authority. Plus your premise is fraudulent: If “weak gun control laws” causes crime in States with “strong gun control laws” then States with “weak gun control laws” would be having the same or higher levels of crime as the States with the “strong gun control laws.” The fact is, what you call “strong gun control laws” is what facilitates violent crime: Every State or metropolitan area with restrictive gun control laws is awash in crime compared to equivalent areas where OUR FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT to keep and bear arms is honored and protected by law.
              Item#10: “Safe storage and mandatory theft reporting.” Typical communist doctrine: If someone breaks the law by stealing a firearm, prosecute the victim. If someone loses a child because the child hasn’t been taught to leave guns alone, prosecute the victim. Like England, the victim of a crime is equally culpable for the crime as the perpetrator, and no one has the right to self-defense upon pain of 5-years in gaol (jail). Sorry, Dude (Dudette) — check that I am not sorry; I am proud — but this is America; we don’t play communist/fascist statist games. Our nation exists to protect our rights, and we demand it do so. Butt out.

            2. @Cline…as time goes on and you learn more, you will realize that there are so many myths created about WW2 and the supposed HoloHoax. The concrete walls of the so called gas chambers were chemically tested for the gas and it was negative. The ground where thousands upon thousands of bodies were supposedly buried were tested with ground penetrating radar only to find that it hadn’t been disturbed for millions of years. The story the world was fed starting around 1960 was designed to rake in reparation money. Of course many died there, but toward the end of the war when the supply lines were cut and everyone was starving and typhoid and dysentery decimated the camps. How long do you think it will take for you to go from what you look like now, to a walking skeleton, if you haven’t had food or water for a month, and you have dysentery where you are shitting your brains out everyday ? Do you think you could last a month ? Go ask your doctor how long it takes before you would look like a bag of bones. And then along comes typhus from the fleas because they ran out of the gas.

    6. Almost all of you dont realize that this has little to do with you. Please spend time reading how these ” alleged public srevants ” have no jurisdiction , authority or bearing ” on you.
      I write this with the knowledge I have gained from 1000’s of hours of research and reading and most importantly praying for the truth . We have been tricked , defrauded , raped , pillaged and plundered for over 150 years . Ask questions , follow your hunches and if something feels wrong , it is… the answers are there if you seek them.. a place to start…” The Fruit from a Poisonous Tree ” by Melvin Stamper , ” The Errant Soveriegns Handboook ” by Augustus Blackstone , You Know Something is Wrong When…” by Anna Von Reitz and James Belcher….

    7. Let’s give you less of a chance to save your life and more of a chance for the bad guys to kill you and your family. That’s a great idea. Let’s pass that law. Just stupid. Why are they still in Office?

        1. Unfortunately gun owners in NJ are outnumbered by non-gun owners. So, without help from some people(who probably don’t care about gun rights), and all the gun owners sticking together, what do you expect?!

    8. These Anti-2nd Red Flag laws are modeled after what Washington State passed in 2016. Pay close attention folks. Step back for a moment, take a broader view. The Confiscation agenda is on a Clear Mission Creep. You will Notice that these Unconstitutional Laws are being “Tested” in the Corner States, such as New York, Vermont, in the North East, Florida in the Southeast, Washington State in the NW, and as far as the Southwest is concerned, well we will just say that California was captured long ago. So if you are objective, take a longer and broader view, you will soon learn that they are “closing in”. This is outlined in the “Tavistock Institute” as part of the 100 year take down of America. These are FACTS. Indisputable. Hiding in plane sight. They are trying to overthrow the United States Constitution. It is what is is folks. The Republic is being “overthrown” . We are a major turning point, here, today, right now. Keep reading please,

      There is a way to stop it and it is very simple. Law makers (scribes and publicans) must be served Cease and Desist Orders (Stop Actions) with the INTENT of providing the Law Breakers a sort of a warning shot to THEM. The warning that their BLATANT ACTIONS, apparent BEHAVIOR, and clearly defined INTENTIONS, are defined as a matter of FACT, 100% Unconstitutional, and Borders on their Felonious Acts as outlined under US Code Title 18, Part 1 Chapter 15, TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES. If they do not cease, they will be charged, detained, and tried for Treason. Period. Get educated and use the LAW to fight back. It can be a very effective tool. One of many. Here is the Link.
      Hurry along now, time is short.

      1. @Kevin…I keep hoping that Solzenitsens book “Two Hundred Years Together” would get printed in English. That book is supposed to explain a lot, and that’s why the Khazarian fake jooos won’t allow it in the USA.

      2. I think they have already had their warning for quite some time. Until the world sees many of them swinging from trees, these Commie Bolshevik pieces of shit will not stop. And they have already started unleashing their Antifa goons this year, since the weather is getting nicer. Those hooded and masked freaks need some lead in their asses.

    9. For decades we have jumped through countless hoops and asked the state nicely to “please ALLOW us to exercise the smallest fraction of our civil rights.”

      We have passed countless criminal background checks and purchased legal property in good faith.

      We have tolerated (to our great shame) mass incarceration of innocents.

      Now the scum are AGAIN widening the scope of their infrigements and promising that a million more will go to jail. They have crossed the final line.

      We must hold them to full account for their crimes against our state and innocent fellow citizens. The corrupt, criminal and vile ruling class will feel the consequences of their evil. We must drag NJ back into the republic and purge Trenton of its enemies.

      Flood NJ with full-featured defensive and modern sporting rifles (no “assault weapons” please) and standard capacity magazines (those for which the rifles were designed). Keep them well regulated by making more frequent trips to the range. Clean, inspect, and function test. Zero scopes. Focus on the fundamentals like breathing and trigger press.

    10. Make these @ssinine Law-makers
      Go Door to Door Trying to Collect ,
      Banned Magazines and or Guns !
      Not the Cops . They Make the Laws ,
      Now Lets See Them Put Their Lives ,
      Where Their Mouths Led Them !
      I’d Bet If That Were to Happen ,
      They;d Change Their Minds FAST !

      1. CT already passed the same laws. The owners in CT replied. Estimated 95% did nothing to comply. The ward was “we will not comply”, and “come and take ’em”. A few of the ‘high brass’ n the CTSP said go and get ’em. The CTSP said “after you”. Haven’t heard of any doors being kicked in yet, The SP aren’t in favor of the law or getting holes in their uniforms. A neighbor (part time) of mine owns a few custom AR’s which he brings up when he wants to keep his eye sharp. After a few stints in Afghanistan, (Special Ops), I wouldn’t want to be the cop that decided to enforce the law.

        1. Kommieforniastan is on the cusp of doing the same thing, only a week or so left to register. I only know of one fool that did. Did I mention fool? I’ve got a feeling the number of people caving to the Marxists here will be the same as in CT.

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