Ammo Stockpiling: Why You Can Never Have Too Much ~ Rebuttal

Barrels of Ammunition XM855
Ammo Stockpiling: Why You Can Never Have Too Much ~ Rebuttal

Arizona -(Ammoland.com)- -In a recent article on AmmoLand News, a case was presented as to why stockpiling of more than a few hundred rounds of ammunition was unnecessary.

It was an interesting take, but much too limited, in my experience. In the end, the authors put in a disclaimer: stockpile as much as you want.

The self-imposed limitations of the presentation were this: They only considered four reasons to stockpile ammunition. They limited the scenarios applicable to those reasons.

Here is a quick critique of the four reasons they listed not to stockpile ammunition:

  • 1. Self-Defense – not unreasonable, in that a couple of hundred rounds fired in self-defense, will likely mean you will eventually catch a round yourself.
  • 2. Hunting – not unjustified in most areas. In some areas, more will be needed, simply for pest control. It is not unreasonable for Australian pest controllers to fire hundreds of rounds a day.  Pest control may be significant if you need to protect your family food supply.
  • 3. Militia actions – A completely unreasonable take on possible militia actions. The idea of a militia force *only* and *solely* fighting a full-up modern military force is one of the least likely scenarios. Even in that case, lots of ammunition is much better than only a little ammunition.
  • 4. Ammo barter – I disagree entirely with the author(s) on this. Ammunition makes excellent barter material, especially commonly available rounds such as .22 LR and 12 gauge.  One of the reasons this is so in the United States is half the population has access to firearms already. There is more of a market in the United States than in the vast majority of places around the world.  Nearly all of the 100 million or so firearm owners in the United States has a .22 rifle/pistol. Almost as many have a 12 gauge.
Ammo Stockpiling: Why You Can Never Have Too Much ~ Rebuttal
Ammo Stockpiling: Why You Can Never Have Too Much ~ Rebuttal

The self-imposed limits on ammunition stockpiling failed to take into account the obvious: What do you use ammunition for today?

You will have the same needs/desires/requirements when ammunition becomes unavailable from conventional sources, which is where the utility of stockpiling shines.

Most gun owners use most of their ammunition today for three purposes:

  • Maintaining and improving their proficiency with firearms.
  • Training others to use firearms.
  • Having fun with their firearms.

Stockpiling ammunition allows firearms owners to continue these activities, even if ammunition becomes difficult to obtain through conventional channels.

Also, there are other excellent reasons to stockpile ammunition the previous article failed to take into account.

  • 1. Cost savings. Buy cheap, in quantity. Stockpile the ammunition by the barrel if needed. Ammunition has a shelf life measured in decades, if not in hundreds of years. Stored in reasonable conditions, it will not go bad in your lifetime.
  • 2. Rare and hard to find cartridges. Do you love your 6.5×55 Swedish sporter?  Your 7.62×54 Mosin Nagant? Your .303 British? How about your 5mm Remington Magnum Rimfire, or a .17 HMR?  Owners of those rounds already know to stockpile, because they are not always easily available in gun stores.
  • 3. Specialty ammunition. Find a cartridge you like, which works well, and does wonders in your favorite gun? Stockpile it. It may not be around forever. Target shooters have been doing this for decades. Find a lot number that works well. Buy lots of that lot number.
  • 4. Shortages for commercial reasons. We recently experienced several years where the most common of all cartridges, the .22 LR, was hard to come by at anywhere near reasonable prices. Those who stockpiled before the .22 bubble did well. Those who did not, tended to do without.
  • 5. Deterrence. If hundreds of millions of firearms give the anti-Constitutional forces pause, billions of rounds of stockpiled ammunition reinforce the consideration. I believe the privately owned ammunition stockpiled in the United States is in the billions. One hundred rounds per firearm owner would be ten billion rounds of ammunition.

Conservatively, it is less than a trillion rounds, though I know of some enthusiasts who have over a hundred thousand rounds stockpiled. One thousand rounds of ammunition per firearm owner, on average, would be 100 billion rounds stockpiled.

A Free Militia

Korean men defending Koreatown during the 1992 LA riots.
Korean men defending Koreatown during the 1992 LA riots.

Let's use a little imagination and expand on the militia reason mentioned in the previous article.   Very seldom are militias used solely against full-blown modern military machines. The reason is obvious: lightly armed militias cannot win a direct fight with a modern military.

Militias have numerous other purposes. Militias, in the United States, spring up spontaneously when the need arises, such as to maintain order after a hurricane or during a  riot.  The Korean storekeepers during the Rodney King riot did not shoot many people. But they fired a fair number of “warning shots” to inform prospective looters of their presence. They were an example of a spontaneous militia.

In a time when the state and federal governments are unable to maintain order, Militias will be called upon to maintain order in their neighborhoods, as has been their traditional role. If order breaks down far enough, militias will be needed to deal with looting gangs, perhaps even those attempting to exert their pseudo-governmental authority.

As late as 1946, in the battle of Athens, Tennessee, an impromptu militia took an illegitimate county government out of office and insisted on fair elections.  Then, the core of the militia was military veterans. The same is likely true for future spontaneous militias.

A militia might be called upon to stop looting and see to the fair distribution of food stocks in a prolonged electrical shortage, or be used to keep the roads open and hunt down and suppress bandits.

All of those things require ammunition. Ammunition to train, ammunition to issue to new militia recruits who are short on supplies. Ammunition, if necessary, to fight bad guys and maintain order. In a prolonged crisis that might last for years, conventional military forces will burn through their stored supplies reasonably quickly. That would do much to even the odds with local militias.

It would be an unusual situation to fight a modern military force. It is more likely local militias would supplement and work with the United States military to restore order, protect property, and save lives. That has been their traditional role.

Ammunition is similar to gold or cash. It is hard to have too much. I join with my colleagues from the previous article. Stockpile as much as you want.



About Dean Weingarten:

Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of constitutional carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and recently retired from the Department of Defense after a 30-year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.

  • 119 thoughts on “Ammo Stockpiling: Why You Can Never Have Too Much ~ Rebuttal

    1. If you want to stockpile ammo, just do this. Rent a table at the local gun show and sell ammo. This way no one while bat an eye to the large amount of ammo you have on hand, not even the wife. It also gives you a way to rotate your stock, replenish it and grow(sell at higher price) it at the same time. In most states you’re not required to have a license to sell ammo.

    2. As I have often stated, “You can’t have too many guns or too much ammo unless you are swimming.”

    3. Wow. Some ‘tough talk’ about ‘fighting’ and “when we need ammo”.
      Yet, cowardly Americans sit quietly as illegal aliens invade the country. You sit quietly as a COUP against the sitting president is in full progress and democrats collude with communist Russians to deny a presidential candidate. You ALL sat quietly as the federal government attacked a church in Waco and shot and then burned alive American citizens. They did that because they knew you cowards would do nothing.
      When asked why you do nothing, you snivvel about a “job”, a “house payment”, “family” and, of course, drinking beer & watching basketball. Good thing the Founding Fathers did not have jobs, homes & families.
      My very great generation grand father was the first adjutant to General George Washington during the Revolution.
      My family has fought in every war, tiff and squabble America has had. I am a disabled Viet Nam veteran.
      You clowns are such cowards, you kneel & obey un-Constitutional ‘gun control laws’ instead of standing against such governmental tyranny. Remember April 19, 1775.
      Talk is cheap.

      1. Craig- You might want to crack open a history book BEFORE making stupid statements. Most, if not all of the founding fathers had families. Had the British caught any of them, they would’ve hanged them. After all, they were British subjects and they just committed high treason. It takes huge brass balls to put your signature to a document like the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution and knowing the consequences for failure. Most of them had lost everything they owned by the end of the revolution. The British burned their homes and possessions to the ground as they found them. You seem to see what the problems are. What exactly are your solutions? My grandparents came from Italy in the 1890’s. My father fought in WW1 and WW2. I fought in Vietnam as well- Lang Vei, 1965. Maybe you heard about it. The problem isn’t patriots who would resist. The problem is there is no leadership. Too many Indians and no chiefs. If you have the answer, instead of insults and criticism, I’m sure we would all love to hear them.

        1. My father was rounded up by the Nazi’s in WWII twice and escaped both times. Eventually winding up here as LEGAL immigrant.
          My mother was a WAC in WWII and her initial fiance was killed in the battle of TaeJon North Korea.

          I trained with my states militia last weekend. Not just for me but for them.

      2. Hey guys…Craig is correct. I don’t blame him one bit for expressing his thoughts on this in the manner which he did. He is frustrated like so many of us. Everything is wrong with our government at this time. We have a coup going on as I write this and it seems no one in government who has been entrusted to stop such things from occurring is doing their job. Certainly all of the Republicans who were in the house of reps and senate did NOTHING while they held those houses with a Republican POTUS. No border wall was approved, no new immigration laws passed, no de-funding of Planned (baby murdering) Parenthood. We have godless anti American politicians and people all over this nation. They want our crown jewel so they can do to it what they have done to Venezuela.Every liberal run city in America is a shit hole full of evil and filth. The leftists will never stop this assault on our freedom because it’s from God and they are from satan! This entire conversation about how much ammo we need to keep on hand is pretty much a no brainer. If you think 100 round of ammo is good enough, so be it. I don’t really care as long as I have what I know I will need. Let’s put it this way…no one is going to take anything from my family when the SHTF and trust me, it will. No one is going to rape my wife or any female for that matter while I am armed. War is ugly and Craig has been there and done that. He knows that the longer we wait, the more will suffer. And yes, WACO is a stain on all of our so called patriotism. We stood by while our servants murdered innocent women and children along with the men. It’s time to stop talking and prepare for what is inevitable. This next election is going to cause the leftists to lose their minds and chaos will ensue. Don’t be that man, that father, that husband who did not prepare properly. Be that man who can protect what he loves and holds dear…be warrior minded!

      3. Spot on Craig!

        “As to the apathy of the American Doofus, the wealth of our generation
        makes action expensive. Think of what we stand to lose. A 2500 square foot
        house. Central heat. Central air. Two brand new SUV’s. Two bathrooms,
        both of them inside the house. TV. Xbox. Just pay some tax money and elect
        an official who will hire a gunman to protect you. And die a long slow death
        in front of the TV while watching “reality”.
        I always thought the first target we shoot at an Appleseed Shoot should be
        a television. That is a much more dangerous enemy than the Redcoats ever
        were.”
        -The Guy

    4. Years ago I tested some factory.45ACP by putting 50 rounds in a bucket of water for one year. They had the factory primer seal lacquer as does most good stuff and of course military ammo. in both rifle and pistol calibers. After the year in water, I tested them and they shot the same as the dry stored stuff. The danger to ammo storage is heat. Military stuff will do well for 50-60 years if kept cool, okay, and dry.

    5. Cache ammo at home and any place you might run to in a emergency. Blocks away, miles away, even states away. Keep record of exact locations just NOT on your phone, computer, tablet etc. They can all be hacked or accessed by enforcement and hackers. Burry stuff at your favorite camping spot, your deer, elk, turkey etc. hunting spots and fishing spots. Maybe even in your back yard. My father used to burry cash in mason jars from time to time. While it is true that you can carry just so much, that doesn’t mean your vehicle can’t carry a bunch of stuff. Most of us know what and who the b.a.t.f.e. is. Apart from legitimate work, they are tasked with enforcing treasonous laws. B A T F E is also short for burry all thy firearms and explosives. Arm up and carry on.

    6. Ok,now,what if the border is invaded by russians,North koreans, Chinese, etc.be pretty easy for them considering some of the dumb ass’s saying there is no crisis

    7. Interesting reading in this “Leave a Comment” section. As shooter’s we certainly have our share of “alpha males”. Why should there be an issue with too much or too little ammo one should have? There’s no prohibition on either just the “left” tagging anyone found to have several guns and a few hundred rounds of ammo some kind of “weirdo”. Really? How about the person with a few cars, a library full of books or dozens of “beanie babies”. In my world I’d call them “collectors” or “hobbyists”. Like many here on this forum, we like our guns, I like my guns. I like guns, I like a variety and try to buy and shoot as many calibers and types that I can. With this fondness for guns I then need ammunition. I’ve been a gun hobbyist, collector and shooter for over 50 years and depending where I was at in life bought some guns and ammo or alot of guns and ammo. In my world a gun without ammo is a “paperweight”. To shoot I need ammo and to shoot alot I need alot of ammo. The best thing I ever did was buy ammo when I did not need it. If I saw a deal I’d buy it. Sometimes I found a great deal on ammo and had no gun, so I would then go buy a gun to shoot it. If I can’t find cheap ammo then I buy dies and components and reload it myself, another hobby or a collector of reloading equipment. Last count when I moved, I had almost 200,000 rounds of loaded ammunition and components for at least that much maybe more. Is this too much, will I run out, do I need more? Don’t know, but I like guns and I like to shoot guns and I don’t want to be caught short. So if I find a good deal on ammo then i will buy it and if I find a good deal on components I will buy them. It boils down for me on how much ammo would I like to have to feed my hobby? I don’t put a number on it I just make sure I have plenty for now and that rainy day!! We need to stick together, we need to protect all gun owners rights not just the ones we like or the ones we don’t mind letting the “left” tweek. Trump (I support him) and the NRA (I support them) let us all down on the bumpstock ban. They let the “left” tweek the 2nd amendment and now its cracked and what’s the arguement against letting it happen again in the future. Great time to be a gun and ammo owner in America.

        1. I am shooting.45acp from WW2 now that has been stored in Folgers metal coffee cans. A friend of minds grand daddy said when u go to a fight take plenty of everything u might need and then some!

    8. I trained many people in firing the M-1 Garand. Ammo was supplied by the DCM, a division of the US Army. Watched thousands and thousands of rounds fired, all ammo was a minimum of 30 yrs old. Never has a misfire. Ammo stored in both 50 cal and 30 cal cans. Those cans have a rubber seal. If you are storing ammo, I suggest you buy surplus ammo cans.

    9. Everybody here talks about storing ammo. What happens when you run out of what you have stored? Your weapon becomes a bat. During the Civil war the south ran out of the materials to make black powder. They improvised by using the feces of animals and humans. Using an old flintlock with powder created from animal and or human waste can allow you to survive long after you run out of modern day weaponry. Learning to use a bow will also help in a survival mode. People need to start thinking outside the box and start thinking about what comes next. Think survival mode for you and your families.

      1. @George in OK, rather than running out and then making powder from animal and human waste, wouldn’t just be easier to take arms and ammunition from our dead enemies? And while we are at it, lets take their food, water, vehicles, POL, and every other weapon and class of logistics from them!

        1. Yeah, baby. Captured equipment. My cup of tea!
          My younger son, that was in the 82nd Airborne, in Iraq, told me, “SHTF (bad government), I probably wouldn’t need your stuff, Dad, as we would probably have already ambushed an active duty military /National guard/reserve convoy!
          You gotta live it!

          1. @Jeffrey S, Sounds like you raised a fine young man. I thank him for his service. Sounds like he would make a good S-3/G-3.

    10. I stockpile ammunition. I also reload. Stockpiling ammunition for my own use is done for one reason. I live in Maryland a state where during any general assembly legislative session could pass a law forcing me to only buy a small amount every month or taxing it to the point where it would be too expensive to buy. Look what California has done. I’m sorry but there is no reason not to stockpile ammunition. All the reasons given here are invalid and moot. When I die if I still have a stockpile of ammunition it will go with my firearms to my heirs.

    11. Only reason to not keep extra is the reversal idea of the ATFE group making it magically illegal, like the bumpstock

        1. I absolutly disagree with ammo as barter. Im not storing ammo to give it away in barter so it can potentaily be used against me. “Hey that guy has a lot of ammo, lets take it.” OPSEC.

    12. The biggest drawback of stockpiling ammo is it does not have unlimited shelf life. I recommend anyone who stockpiles ammo to use the oldest ammo first and replace with new ammo.

      1. Properly stored ammo has a shelf life exceeding your lifetime. While rotating your stock is never a bad idea, the perspective that ammo has a narrow “use by” date is fairly absurd.

      2. Sorry Jeff but you are either grossly misinformed or you’re trying to be funny. There is NO shelf life on ammo. That was an urban legend that started during the gun grabbing days of the Clinton administration. The rule of thumb on ammo storage is if you’d be comfortable living in the temperature and humidity where you want to store your ammo then it will last indefinitely.

        1. Your absolutely correct, this shelf life myth has also been applied to medications also, most infer a 2 year shelf life, but the US military stores meds 16 years! I think it’s all about $.

      3. While the FIFO advice is good, the shelf life of ammo stored properly, i.e., i non humid conditions with temperatures suitable for humans, is decades. Unless you purchased it while you were in diapers, you probably won’t outlive its shelf life.

      4. Very good tip. Still, I have ammo from WWII and earlier that is still just fine. Store it well (even that did not apply to all of this stock), and it will tend to stay just fine. Moisture tends to ruin primers, but it is harder to ruin the powder. Transferring loads from shell to shell while replacing the primers, for example, worked just fine to restore a box of ammo that had gotten wet and proved to be unreliable, once it was allowed to dry out.

        So, yes, definitely use old ammo first, but don’t worry too much if ammo gets to be even forty or fifty years old. It will probably lose a little velocity, but chances are that it will still be well within desired parameters of performance. The issue is that some people get really nervous if ammo reaches ten years old, or whatever, and that is NOT a problem, if well stored. If in doubt, simply test a few rounds with a chronograph or other estimate of sufficiency.

        Knowing that, under reasonable circumstances of handling and storage, one can rely on fifty year old (or older) ammo without any real problem, should take a lot of pressure of of those who feel nervous. Again, just test it rather than automatically burning through it. But still, use it first, all other things being equal.

        1. I have some 9mm ammo that I bought in the ’70s, and which worked fine back then. It was brought in by Interarms. Blue box, Berdan primed, sealed around the primer. Utterly worthless – won’t fire. Am preparing to pull all the bullets and reload with new powder in new cases. It’s NOT true that old ammo – even surplus, sealed, mil issue ammo – will last forever. This stuff is only about 45 years old since i bought it, and I believe it is Norinco manufacture, 1952 vintage. That puts it post-WWII by a significant margin – yet it’s landfill at 67 years old.

      5. Last month I shot off some old Nato 9mm ammo I brought back from Germany in 1986 when I left the Army. Stuff worked fine. If my present ammo lasts 30 years then I’m pretty well set.

    13. How quickly we forget in this time of plenty. Not that long ago you couldn’t find .22LR anywhere, and it you could find it it was 3x as expensive. My local farm store got a supply of Sellier and Belloit .22, so I bought was I was allowed to buy. I’d used their center fire ammo and thought it good. The LR stuff was horrible! Squib loads, misfires. So, from that point on, no more S&B ammo of any sort.

      I have slowly been going through my stockpile and “unloading through the muzzle” any cheap quality foreign ammo and replacing it with US mfg ammo. If I had more room, I’d have 10,000 rounds of everything I shoot. Instead, I keep about 5000 rounds of center fire, and 10k of rimfire.

      1. Huh, that’s weird. I’ve never used the .22LR S&B, but I use S&B exclusively for 9mm and 10mm in training and in competition. I’ve never had any issue with it over thousands of rounds. Sorry for your luck.

    14. After stockpiling ammo (which I do) , you need magazines. I can’t tell you how many people tell me that they have “plenty” of ammo but when asked how many magazines they have ? The answer is usually around five ?????

      1. Agreeed. I’d rather have boxes and boxes of full mags rather than boxes and boxes of just ammo. You will be killed reloading your mags…buy mags people.

        1. While it is true that Emma without magazines is pointless you can only carry so many on your person. I probably have close to 50 thousand rounds of ammo for my AR-15 in about 60 standard-capacity magazines. Even with 60 Max that’s still only 1800 rounds which is a relatively small percentage of the ammo that I owe. And that’s just one caliber. I have tens of thousands of rounds for my other calibers as well but again there’s really no point in having every round I own loaded into a MAG because I can’t carry them all

      2. It is my practice to have a mimimum of 3,500 rds. ammo or more per platform and stringently ‘normalize’ & limit types of calibers across the spectrum…Does not make one lick of common sense to own/have a multiplicity of differrnt/odd calibered weapons on inventory then having to stock the minimum number of rounds that each firearm requires to be viable. The KISS principle readily comes to mind here.

        Buy Cheap & Stack It Deep…..

        Lock & Load, Ya’ll….

        1. Here’s the lick of sense you missed: you have NO IDEA what ammo will be available to you in your area if the worst happens; in fact, you could make the case that less-common ammo will be left behind after looting, whereas the more common .22, 5.56, .308, etc. will be depleted. So having a variety of weapons in different chamberings might well be all the difference when you go to that broken-in gunshop and there’s still .25-06 or 16 gauge or 6mm left, but all the 12 gauge, .243, and .22 rimfire has been long since sacked. A .25 ACP that you can shoot is ‘way better than a .357 magnum that has no ammunition available.

          1. GEORGE STEELE: Your comment is right on. Having adventured overseas, it is amazing the amount of rare, uncommon, or obsolete (per some Firearms Cartridge Reference Books) firearms that are still in working condition. Now think of how many potential firearms are in the good ole’ US of A! I know persons who have a firearm in almost every caliber made in the US since 1900. The reasoning was that he never knew what ammo may be available. While that may be an extreme case, it would likely not hurt to have some ammo on hand in common or formerly common calibers/gauges, just in case a friend, family member, or NEW friend comes along with a working firearm. I have a few boxes of some common calibers, that I do not own, for this reason alone (30-30, .243, .22-250, etc.). I do not recommend anyone do this, however, until they have a comfortable (a person choice or rely on one of the gurus thoughts for this number) amount of “stockpiled” ammunition, magazines, accessories, slings, spare parts, and belt/chest rigs to support what they own (firearms-wise). Also, food, water, medicinal gear, and shelter should not be neglected either….
            …apologies to the Choir I may have been preaching to.
            Your Mileage May Vary

    15. I dollar cost average.

      I have purchased a case of ammo out of almost every paycheck for 30+ years.

      It is amazing how much you put away this way. Painlessly, without even noticing it. I have all the ammo my extended family, my kids and my grandchildren will ever use. Hundreds of cases.

      Further, compared to putting money in a 401k or ira to be whittled away by inflation or penalized and taxed for using it early or at all, most of my ammo has appreciated as much as 400% and if I need some cash I can sell ammo tax free, penalty free and off the books.

      If you can store it, it’s one of the best long term investment plans out there and insures you that YOU WILL HAVE IT when the time comes (long past) that The Tree of Liberty needs a good watering by patriots.

      Look at commiefornia now,……and coming in July…….500 rounds max with a backround check, a record and a thumb print………no one will send ammo into commiefornia………there is no better way to say F*CK THE DEEP STATE than a serious ammo stockpiling plan.

      1. John I could not agree more with you on buying ammo consistently and cost averaging it. I have done the same and because of that, I have plenty for me, my kids and grandkids. I now just buy when I find a good deal on loaded ammo and/or components. I told my money guy that I have along with my money investment accounts a “Material IRA”…he said what’s a “Material IRA”? I told him “guns and ammo”!! He being a gun guy couldn’t agree more. And when times occur and ammo is in short supply and the price goes thru the roof I sell some at the premium pricing and buy more when the prices come down. As I always say to friends that call and want me to sell them ammo, “poor planning on your part does not make it an emergency on mine”. I will sell them ammo but at todays prices on what it would cost me to replace it. Fortunately most of my friends are like you and me and have consistently bought ammo on the sunny days so we have it for the rainy days!! Great to be an American.

      2. There’s no limit on how much you can purchase after passing the CA AFS check beginning Jul 1, but unfortunately retailers must report to the CADOJ what you bought (caliber, quantity, etc.). One of the chief complaints about this new law (AB 63 – 2016) is that the text contains no sunset clause for the state’s database, meaning they will have indefinite reference to what you took into your possession.

        Like you, I too have been purchasing a box or two every month since 2012 when Obama was re-elected and he started his efforts to ‘back door’ the gun industry by mandating the EPA to go after mineral suppliers necessary to the gunpowder process. And like you, I was wary (long before 2016’s Gunmaggedon fiasco was passed into law) that this might happen…and lo and behold here we now are, watching the July 1 deadline approach. Fortunately, I have a lot of ammo, but due to my regular training it will not last forever. Hopefully the FPC/GOA/CRPA lawsuits will successfully overturn this before I run out.

        Or before I finally decide to leave my good job, good church, and my formerly good childhood home…and leave this state forever. That is increasingly becoming a real possibility.

    16. You are wrong on point three. This country is heading most certainly toward Civil War. I’m not going to get into the modern control theory aspects except to say that we have poles in the right hand plane, and that represents serious instability. No, Civil War is most definitely coming. As far as going against the military or police that is going to be a bit complicated. There is an organization of Sheriff’s called the Constitutional sheriffs and Peace Officers Association and they have more than 460 members, meaning 460 + Sheriff’s departments. They will certainly take our side and men in the military will as well. I know I spent time in the military as an officer and we have had many discussions about this issue.

      But not all in the military will take the side of the people fighting to restore the constitutional republic. Regrettably there are many left-wingers in the military. Even in my younger days they were a few but increasingly more have joined the military to fill a square for the future Pursuits, sometimes political.

      In any event I would like to point out at some three and a half decades ago they were only Thirty or forty thousand ham operators and now there are over seven hundred and thirty-five thousand. There is a reason for this and it isn’t simply because they love radio. They’re getting ready. I know one group of ham operators that have approached me to form a militia. I will meeting with them. When I do I will be discussing that we will need to raise as a minimum five brigades for our state and more if we can. I will also be engaging the county sheriff’s I know are stalwart supporters of the Second Amendment for True purposes to provide the civilian leadership Authority and to form civilian leadership over the militia not dissimilar to the Committees of Correspondence and the Committees of safety
      of our founding fathers.

      If I am successful here, I will bring this to other states. But those of you reading this should do the same. The people we most likely be fighting in the Civil War will be a mixture of factions to include of course the rather unconstitutionally formed federal police agencies, Rogue elements and local law enforcement who are not so constitutionally minded, and of course other factions who will take advantage of the conflagration such as gangs and Invaders particularly from the south. This is why we will really need to develop strong relationships with the existing military infrastructure, particularly the reserves and National Guard along the border between us and Mexico. Because when this country does he go to Civil War oh, we will be vulnerable to the cartels and other Invaders. But make no mistake: civil war is coming! You will be unwise not to be well-prepared.

      1. If there is a civil war, most of the firearms will be owned by only one side. Let’s see how that plays out.

        Given the politicization of our intelligence and law enforcement agencies and the top ranks of the military, will they support the deep state or the people? Will they be used to suppress people who only want freedom and the rule of law?

        Personally, I think civil war is unlikely because most Americans are lazy and pleasure seeking. They don’t know about our constitution. They don’t know why they should care about the constitution. These people might start a war, but it would only be for more “free stuff” from the government.

        1. Those of us that have served in the military and other types of service have sworn to up old the Constitution against foreign and internal enemies! No one has relieved us from the oath. So we are obligated to do so!!

      2. Let’s cut to the chase. If Trump loses in 2020, how many assholes here are going to start shooting people?

        1. LOLOL well said. Bunch of fucking tools acting all “hard” but the truth is they’re statists as long as the state is doing their bidding and not the brown people’s.

    17. I’ll ask the same question I did on the other post – How much can you carry? If SHTF and you have to bug out, you will NOT be able to carry 10,000 rounds of 5.56 or 12 gauge. I’m not saying don’t stock pile, but be mindful that you may not be able to take it all with you. For the most rounds .22lr is great, got a 5.56 and a vest, load it up and go (as with any caliber), but keep that .22lr (or .22 mag ammo close).
      In the end everyone will do what they want and plans in different ways. Lock and load! Enjoy what you have now and protect America!

      1. As you point out, there is a difference between a stockpile and a mobile supply, and between a bug-out bag and long term supplies. IMHO, while I love the relative power of a .308, for example, any need to be highly agile would move me toward carrying a 5.56, together with a moderate backpack of loaded magazines and extra boxes of ammo. I would also save some space for ammo and mags for a pistol of choice, to get through certain situations, although the rifle would be the most versatile and long range tool. Even if you ever have to face off with a grizzly bear, a 5.56 will evidently do the job, using multiple shots.

        1. Stash some ammo and weapons .in sealed containers not on your property, but some placed where you could get to if you had to in an emergency.

          1. Exactly. Have one or two pistols, for example, that are perform but not part of your ‘faves’ or your go-to collection? They might be perfect candidates for long term storage in a can with a simple/cheap belt, holster, ear plugs, and ammo. If for any reason you’re separated from your home or main storage location, you can retrieve it.

            Or…if someone you care about is out there and in desperate need, you can refer to the location and retrieval so he/she can defend his/herself and family in a pinch.

        2. The same goes for food. How much can you carry?
          How about fuel? Water?
          I don’t agree with the premise of how much you can carry.

          If I have to bug out, I’m going to load up as much as I can carry in my pickup and/or trailer. If I can’t bug out in my vehicle, I’m not bugging out. I’m staying home and defending my family there and handing each of them a gun that I’ve already trained them to handle, even grandma. I have family members that wouldn’t last an hour in the woods in the cold of winter. All my survival equipment and capability is at home.

          If we get to the point of bugging out, we are all in a world of hurt.

      2. Why would you bug out when you have a home/shelter? Makes zero sense. Stay put and defend. Your defense is much stronger that way.

        1. Not true . I wold tack the fit to the hills whare I know the wildness and others don’t . I am a combat vet. your home is nothing more then a big target. Well I don’t have time to explain it all. But do some research.

      3. Macofjack…I don’t disagree with you about having to carry ammo. But I look at it a little differently…if we have a SHTF problem it’s probably going to be some type of infrastructure failure issue caused by nature, an accident or on purpose, i.e. power going off. In this case I would want my family together and in a familiar place i.e. home. In an urban area look what happens when a few traffic lights go off after a storm….now what if the cities power grid is off??? Even if you had a choice to leave or stay or would probably opt to stay at home because of the advantage of what all I have in the house versus trying to carry it on my person or in a vehicle. Hope it never happens…but look at these large cities when the power goes out…cause for mayhem…..it’s times like that when you find out what your neighbors really are made of….just my thought…yes…. “Enjoy what you have now and protect America!”

    18. I reload. Use acid free boxes from repackbox(fantastic outfit, check it out) then vacuum seal those boxes in packs that fit in 30 cal ammo cans. Those packs are dated, and each box is labeled with the cartridge loads.
      From spring through fall, I pick up brass from the local ranges and process it. Many calibers that I dont load for, I trade to other handloaders. I also buy materials (a little at a time) taking advantage of sales over the summer. Then, during the cold winter months, I load. Thousands upon thousands of rounds of 9mm and 5.56. I chose NATO rounds because I think these will be in use the longest and have the highest trade value. I load moderate cartridges, not too hard on a firearm, but will still do the job and are accurate. To a lesser degree, I also load .308, 30.06, and my baby (just for fun) 458 SOCOM.
      Undocumented firearms are important too. Either through private sale or 80%. Make sure they are reliable, buy spare parts and then pack them away in cosmoline!
      Pray for the best, prepare for the worst.
      Cheers!

      1. I stand prepared for the worst, but hope for the best. If needed our community will come together and Protect our people and property as well as the Republic and the second amendment.

    19. Like i said before on that post LIBERALS READ THIS TOO.
      Your feeding the stray dogs writing this.anybody with a dimes worth of smart would never put the posts up

      1. Sharing ideas with others of like mind is not automatically worse than having people of opposite viewpoints know what is being discussed. The leftist get to know that patriots are preparing themselves for trouble, while patriots help patriots actually prepare for trouble. No clear disadvantage for the patriots in that. If you want a big disadvantage for patriots, then keep them from talking to each other, hide the fact that preparation may be the wisest course of action in these delicate times, and never give anyone a clue about the real risks that they face and what they might need to do. If everyone curls up, buries their weapons (and their heads) to hide them instead of being ready and able to use them, and waits around for the new American KGB or whatever to knock on their door at night, won’t that be a fine situation? Another value of communication is that it provides a sense of organization and cooperation, where divide and conquer is not so easy as when everyone has kept themselves in the dark.

        1. Have a plan ready to go incase this happens, better yet, have multiple plans so that you can react to different situations. Practice them, and correct any deficiency’s that come to light!

      1. While ammo can be used for barter, in a real SHTF scenario, I wouldn’t recommend it, with a few exceptions.
        Those you actually barter ammo with should be very trusted amigos.
        Otherwise, that ammo could be used against you.
        IMO, a much better barter fodder would be mags. Many will wish they had more in a bad situation.
        Booze is also excellent barter fodder.

        1. I buy at least 2 bottles of hooch every payday, some “good stuff” and others not so good, but drinkable. I have a closet shelf full of a few dozen bottles. I don’t drink much, but others will want some, so it is good barter stock. Tobacco is another item to stock for barter. I am a light smoker, but some are not, and when the 7-11 is gone they will want some. Leave people to their vices, but position yourself to be able to dictate the deal. Anything can be used; the price will vary with demand. Don’t forget hard candies, either. They last FOREVER and are very easy to store.

          Do yourself a favor and buy at least one vacuum sealer, and get the bags from the Dollar Store. Also stock up on medical supplies and OTC meds.

    20. The only time you can have too much ammo is swimming a river or standing in a burning building. The anti gunners don’t need to seize our firearms, they simply need to cease the production of ammo and reloading components. An empty gun makes a half assed club or a very expensive paperweight. Either way, you can’t have “too much” ammo, save for the previous examples. An armed citizenry is a free, and usually polite, citizenry. Good shooting!

      1. Our enemies certainly don’t need to seize (ever wonder why “seize” doesn’t follow the “I before E” rule? At all?) guns. They just need to make the transfer of them illegal, or so burdensome that most won’t bother. Then make the penalty for having an unregistered gun so severe that most wouldn’t dare. As owners die, the state gets the guns.
        Never happen, of course. Just look at our war on drugs. It all boils down to money.

    21. And there are many more reasons. For example, you are a long range competitor but yet you do not reload. This means that when you find one particular factory loading that your rifle likes, you will need to buy lots of that particular lot, because future lots will be different. Even if the bullet is the same, the primers and powders will likely be different, and the powder will certainly be from differently calibrated measures, so future loads will probably not print as well.
      Or maybe you just came upon a good sale.

      1. And a comment for reloaders (which I am). Go ahead and invest in brass, or pick it up diligently as you can. A storehouse of powder, primers, and loose bullets is great for eventual reloading, so always keep a good supply of that on hand, but that stuff is pretty useless until you have it in cartridge form. It weighs a little more to have most of your reloading materials already loaded as cartridges, and it takes slightly more space in that form, but to put it simply, your bug-out bag should be full of ready cartridges, and not full of reloading equipment. If you have the components, then try to put them together in useful form rather than having them sit loose, at least until your ammo supply is up to where you feel it should be when SHTF.

    22. I’ve never considered stockpiling ammo. A stockpile is something held in reserve, I store 1,000 rounds per firearm for training. Cheapest to buy 500 at a time, can only find the best sales a few times per year. My entire quantity turns over annually, none is held in reserve; therefore, I have no stockpile.

      I would calculate a stockpile at perhaps 5,000 rounds per firearm. This article makes some good points; I should build up a stockpile.

    23. Another reason to stockpile ammo is this ; if we face a grid down situation, most manufacturing will grind to a halt. No more Remington or Winchester plants cranking out ammo. In that case, no resupply……ever. Whatever you have in your stores may have to last a very long time.

    24. Billions of rounds of ammo may be an understatement. Consider 22lr alone. People routinely buy thousands of rounds at a time. CCI was making over 2million rounds a day at their peak production. I know at least a 3 dozen people with several thousand rounds of various types of ammo, and I’m not even that well connected in the shooting community.

      1. Mr. Ho. At the time my father was an investigator for the state and I worked with the Sheriff’s Office and I still remember the brave Korean men on those roofs turning those Invaders back.

        So just eant to let you know we all give an amen that day in a thank you very much bevause we could not come to help but you took care of it and kicked ass.

      2. The incident of these American shop owners of Korean descent protecting their property against looters is a prime example of what should happen when government refuses to perform its duty to enforce the laws.

        1. I remember watching that on TV, as the 1992 riots were happening only 30 min from where I lived at the time. The LAPD cordoned off the several city blocks with the strategy to “contain” the carnage and let it literally burn itself out. The Koreans were stuck inside the perimeter, abandoned by the very police who were supposed to defend the community (note I didn’t say people, but certainly the municipality). They had to defend themselves.

          If there were ever a major event, all the cops would be scrambling home to take care of their families. And the criminals & gangs know this.

    25. The no stockpile article struck me as odd. What good is a weapon without ammo? And if something happens, you have zero ammo. And his no bater ammo was equally dumb. I also a stockpile of half pints and pints of cheap alcohol, small value silver coins and ibuprofen, aspirin, tylenol and benadryl. For barter

      1. And cigarettes. Lot’s of people have that disgusting habit and would literally trade their soul for one.

      2. I agree with dean weingarten. I didnt like that article about stocking ammunition. But i am guessing ammo land has started a conversation, touche✓… But i also disagree w their “militia” sentiments. Did NOT a rag tag band of farmers, “militia” for lack of a better term, defeat the most tech advanced and modern army at the time? Afghanistan comes to mind, several times… I’ll let y’all figure out the rest but… April 19, 1775. FARMERS/Citizens…

        1. America / Afghanistan comparison is a little bit of key. The military actions in Afghanistan are conducted under the basic Geneva rules of war in regard to civilian casualties. The US pussy foots around afraid to get bad press when collateral civilians are killed. In domestic disputes the Police powers in the US do not care one bit who gets in the way of their objective. Randy Weavers wife and son, the Branch Davidians and numerous other “POLICE ACTIONS ‘ have demonstrated this. Also the New Orleans door to door gun grab is a prime example of the disregard for the Constitution when it suits the powers that be in America.

    26. I agree regarding competition shooters you can never have enough ammo. I do like a couple pistols in the same cal. Myself, it’s 9mm. If you have two pistols, for example, 300-500 rounds per gun. NOW, a lot of folks, like myself, grab ammo if we see it on special. Maybe a couple 50 or 100 round boxes. I do suggest “dating and rotating” ammo. Keep the “freshed” ammo, shoot the oldest. One point I would like to address. Don’t overlook “spare mags”, could be as important as the ammo itself?
      Bottom line, it’s individual choice. If you feel the need for whatever amount of ammo, then do it!

      1. 300 rounds per gun? Do you stop on the way home from work every day to put a couple of gallons of gas in your car to get you through the next day, too?

    27. Three items one can not stockpile enough of: Food, Water, and Ammunition. Anyone who believes in ‘too much of a good thing’ needs to pull their head out of…

      1. @Jim, If one has enough food, water, and ammunition stockpiled, then they become a worthy target, and immobile. Then one needs more defenders, successful tactics, and before any other thing: opsec.

          1. @Sam Ho, Yes, that is the operational security part. I like your stockpiling over the counter analgesics, coins, and alcohol. But what is a Roof Korean, my brother?

            1. Roof Koreans refers to Korean-American business owners who defended their storefronts during the 1992 Los Angeles riots.

            2. Roof Korean = those during LA Riots, where 53 died when police pulled back because of the dangers, stood on the roof of the Korean grocery stores and defended their turf.

              The police are under no obligation to protect you individually but rather just too generally attempt to keep law and order. Every state has case law stating that the police are not obligated to respond. Unless you are in police custody there is no requirement to provide for your safety.

    28. Ammo is like money and bacon, you can’t have too much. It stores easily, you don’t have to feed it and it doesn’t shit on the carpet. And remember, ” The man that dies with the most stuff wins”.

      1. Never forget Gunfigjter Rule #10. You may be killed with your own gun but it will be because you ran out off ammo and were beat to death with it.

      2. I’ve checked hundreds of boxes of ammo, and absolutely nowhere is there an expiration date. Sadly the commies in Kaliforniastan have made it a touch more difficult to get ammo.

        1. IMHO…If ammo is stored properly (kept in a cool dry place) it will last for decades. Every now and then, a WWI bomb or civil war cannon ball that did not detonate is unearthed, rusty and caked in muck, yet just as dangerous as the day it was released. Even in the worst of storage conditions, that ammo is better than no ammo.

          1. Sometimes even if it’s not kept properly. My brother finds stuff from the War of Northern Aggression and earlier that is still dangerous. It certainly wasn’t kept properly.

            1. I have 30 cal. ammo that I purchased in the 80’s. It is surplus from the Korean Conflict and Vietnam. It continues to go BANG without fail. Mostly stored in sealed ammo cans. Some cached in other locations for Rainy Day Situations. Regardless of availability. You can never have to much ammo or to many caches.

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