Lawsuit Could Set Precedent on Restoring Gun Owner Rights for Non-Violent Felons

By David Codrea

Since this guy can't be trusted, the obvious solution is to keep him away from the rest of us. (California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation)
David Codrea in his natural habitat.

USA – -(Ammoland.com)- A man convicted in 2010 for securities fraud who wants his right to own a gun recognized by the government filed a complaint Monday in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia. Montana resident Gregory L. Reyes’ lawsuit names as defendants U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Thomas E. Brandon, Acting Director of the bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Curiously, per Law360.com, Reyes “has hired Attorney General Jeff Sessions' personal lawyer.”

“Plaintiff challenges the complete denial under Section 922 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code of Plaintiff’s Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms solely and exclusively on account of his 2010 convictions for federal securities and accounting offenses,” Reyes v. Sessions declares.  “Section 922(g)(1) prohibits firearm possession by ‘any person . . . who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.’”

We can see that for ourselves. The question is “Should it?” And how does such a blanket ban enhance public safety or comply with a government prime directive “to secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity”?

Reyes’ complaint make all the legal arguments his lawyers could amass, including arguing that the crimes for which he was convicted do not qualify under federal law as offenses to which a firearms disability apply. Under Montana law, it argues, he would be free to own guns.

As long as we’re talking the law, where in the Constitution — “the supreme Law of the Land” — is the federal government delegated powers to have any say whatsoever in gun ownership? Aside from Congress having authority “to provide for calling forth the Militia,” the only other clear mandate to all branches is “shall not be infringed.”

Still, as long as “We the People” are by and large content to allow usurpers to usurp and court precedent to trump founding intent, Reyes can either use the “legal” tools at his disposal to petition for restoration of recognition, submit to a mandate wherein the state considers his life not worth defending, or take risks that can ruin his life for good by disobeying “the law.”

If that law is not guided by justice, common sense and morality, what do we need it for?  Why would or should the governed give their consent to being unjustly and stupidly ruled?

Oh, but if you don’t want to do the time don’t do the crime, some unsympathetic “law and order” types will argue.  When they do, don't be surprised if they cite recidivism statistics.

What they’re doing is showing they believe in judging individuals based on the collective, and protests about their being gun owners notwithstanding, they not only believe in “gun control,” they’re giving credibility to the notion that it works. That’s what they’re really saying.

In Reyes' case, it doesn't matter if you don't like the guy or think he's all too representative of arrogant elites who skate by on things the rest of us would be in a world of hurt over. We're not talking about arming Charles Manson here, and if he's successful in his complaint, who knows how others might one day benefit from the precedent he could set?

“Anyone who can’t be trusted with a gun can’t be trusted without a custodian” is a maxim I’ve been using for years because it’s true. Recalling that the three greatest mass murders in U.S. history were reportedly initiated with utility knives, fuel oil and fertilizer, and gasoline and a match, and how many homicides are committed with blunt or sharp objects or even with hands and feet, why would you want to give a “prohibited person” access to those along with the freedom to move among the rest of us?

After all, if violent criminals are still truly dangerous, Robert J. Kukla made a brilliant observation in his 1973 classic “Gun Control,” equating their release from prison with opening the cage of a man-eating tiger and expecting a different result.

Why not restore full rights to someone who can be trusted without a custodian? Does anybody think “prohibited persons” like Martha Stewart and Scooter Libby pose an existential danger to the lives and safety of anyone? And conversely, what sense does it make to open a tiger’s cage just because some arbitrary expiration date has been reached?

Chuck Schumer
Curiously, some “”law and order” gun owners are siding with Chuck Schumer.

Unfortunately, for now, Reyes’ lawsuit is the only legal option open to him.  That’s because, as Gun Owners of America noted in a May alert, Chuck Schumer is in complete agreement with all those unsympathetic gun owners arguing to keep all felons disarmed, regardless.

Let's hope none of them ever get convicted for inadvertently “violating” a tyrannical “gun law.”  Some of us have even done that on purpose.

Defiantly. And proudly. Knowing there are no “legal” remedies. And how there would be no shortage of condemnation from “our side” for “making everyone look bad.”

Tough. Disobeying disarmament orders is an old American tradition. And it sure beats the newer ones:

“For roughly 25 years, the ‘Schumer amendment’ to the Commerce-Justice-Science Appropriations Bill has prohibited any federal funds from being used to restore anyone’s constitutional rights,” GOA explained. “So for much of this time, if a person were a veteran with PTSD, they’re out of luck. If they had a conviction for a federal regulatory offense — fifty years ago — they’re out of luck. They will NEVER get their guns back, thanks to Democrat Chuck Schumer.”

It’s not quite fair to just blame Schumer though, is it? After all, gun-owning voters gave Republicans majorities in the House and Senate along with the White House under the assumption that all that fundraising rhetoric and all those high grades for being “staunch supporters of the Second Amendment” were more than just hype to draw the rubes into the Big Tent.

On a tangentially-related note, some of us have been arguing for many years against “Project Exile” and its mandatory sentencing for felons caught with guns. We argued at the time that those pushing it had no control over who would be caught up in the net they were helping cast. We argued that non-dangerous citizens, including those disarmed through un-American “laws” like the Lautenberg gun ban, could be included in the haul and put away for a very long time (along with demonstrable proofs showing it wasn’t really working as hyped).

While researching another project, I came across a 2002 article validating such concerns:

“The majority of the defendants — 154 out of 191 — have no violent felonies on their records; two were illegal aliens with no criminal record at all. Among the 37 who do have a history of violence, seventeen did not use a gun in their previous crime. This means that just slightly more than one in ten of the prohibited persons prosecuted under Project Exile — twenty out of 191 — has a proven history of gun violence. Among those twenty, the most common charge was “felony menacing,” meaning the person had brandished a gun but hadn't pulled the trigger. Only four of the defendants had been convicted of actually shooting a gun during a crime.”

How about we put violent predators away until they can be safely released, and if they can’t, work out some sort of arrangement where they don‘t have free access to a fresh victim pool? How about if we charge and punish them for the actual crimes they commit?

And how about if a person has paid his debt, and established through his conduct he’s trustworthy enough to be reintegrated back into society, that he gets treated as a full citizen with all attendant responsibilities and rights?

Because again, if you can’t trust him, what the hell are you doing letting him out?

About David Codrea:

David Codrea is the winner of multiple journalist awards for investigating / defending the RKBA and a long-time gun owner rights advocate who defiantly challenges the folly of citizen disarmament.

In addition to being a field editor/columnist at GUNS Magazine and associate editor for Oath Keepers, he blogs at “The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance,” and posts on Twitter: @dcodrea and Facebook.

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    JonGarrettWild BillJoel Linebergercircle8Barry Recent comment authors
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    circle8
    Guest
    circle8

    From the article
    “Because again, if you can’t trust him, what the hell are you doing letting him out?”

    Because bleeding hearts, Hollywood liberals and moronic politicians argue for releasing KILLERS, TRAITORS, ETC., ETC.
    If your a FELON it is your fault.

    Joel Lineberger
    Guest
    Joel Lineberger

    To Circle 8, since you are afraid to post your name. Are you so perfect that you have never violated a single law in your life? You have never exceeded the speed limit, failed to come to a complete stop at a stop sign, went under the light just after it turned red, maybe had a couple drinks and then drove home? If you say you have not done at least one of the above in you life, you not only violated the law but you lied about it as well. Had there been an accident and someone had been… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Joel Lineberger, it is foolish to post one’s information on line, now a days, because there are so many people that know how to use it to steal from others. You could be either of those or just posting a fake name of your own.

    JonGarrett
    Guest
    JonGarrett

    In 1992 a “friend”of mine wanted to borrow $200. He offered collateral (that I did not ask for) until he paid me back. He gave me his little pocket pistol Colt 380. A few weeks pass but I didn’t hound him for the money because I was sure he wanted his gun back. At that time I was in a relationship with his niece so one day asked her about him, and hadn’t seen him and he owes me $200. I told her that I’m keeping his gun until I get my money back. To my surprise she said “the… Read more »

    Joel Lineberger
    Guest
    Joel Lineberger

    Come on guys. It is time to stop talking and start some action. Please donate to Barry Michael’s law suit. This is the best chance we have at the moment so stop making excuses why you should not donate and get your check book out. You can whine and talk for the rest of you life and get nowhere or you can take action and make something happen. Please do the right thing. Thanks, Joel

    Hlwjr1947
    Guest
    Hlwjr1947

    I donated, you should too.

    Joel Lineberger
    Guest
    Joel Lineberger

    Thank you for your donation and yes I donated too. If only 5% will donate that will get this ball rolling. Come on people it is time to step up to the plate. If you can only send a few bucks, that is fine, send it. Every dollar will help.

    Joel Lineberger
    Guest
    Joel Lineberger

    I am supporting Barry Michaels and his law suit and I am asking everyone on here to do the same. All you guys that are talking about wanting to get something started on this but don’t know where to start, well Barry has already got it started so if you are serious about doing something it is time to join the fight. Barry can’t do this alone but with our help we can get her done.

    David L
    Guest
    David L

    I was wanting to do a donation. However it shows unsecured on my pc . Need to at least setup PayPal.

    David L
    Guest
    David L

    Got my donation completed.

    Joel Lineberger
    Guest
    Joel Lineberger

    Way to go. Thanks for your help. If you know others in the same situation please talk to them about donating as well. Thanks!

    David
    Guest
    David

    The problem is we need a figure on how much is needed to continue.

    People like to know how much the bill is before the send a check .

    Barry
    Guest
    Barry

    in donations sure doesn’t cover two years of litigation and a Supreme Court filing. Enough excuses from most of you who have money to buy a gun but nothing to support the effort. Barry

    Barry
    Guest
    Barry

    Please help with the legal fees by donating below.
    Thanks
    http://www.americansforcivilrights.org/donate/

    Barry
    Guest
    Barry

    Here’s your greatest hope of changing the law and attitude towards law abiding felons:
    http://www.americansforcivilrights.org/writ-of-certiorari

    L.V.
    Guest
    L.V.

    9th Circus, maybe a chance in the 5th.
    The Interstate Commerce clause is what needs to be attacked and how Congress passed this through. Without Interstate Commerce overreach there would be no 18 U.S. Code § 922 – Unlawful acts.
    If firearm us not in Interstate Commerce the rest of the law us null and void.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

    Barry
    Guest
    Barry

    Does anyone read? Here’s the Supreme Court case that could change it all.
    http://www.americansforcivilrights.org/writ-of-certiorari

    Joel
    Guest
    Joel

    Barry, it looks like all they want to do is sit on their butts and whine about their situation and are not willing to lift a hand to do something about it. I guess they are all democrats and expect someone else to do the work and give it to them for free. What is the latest news?

    Barry
    Guest
    Barry

    It’s all about waiting at this time to see if the court will take the case.

    Howard
    Guest
    Howard

    I decided to do something so I started a blog, http://www.restore2arights.com, I just registered it Tuesday and tried to start the blog page but did not get far. I used Bluehost and hope to figure it out. If any of you are website guru’s and want to lend a hand with development let me know. Not sure where this will go but worth a try.

    L.V.
    Guest
    L.V.

    That website does not have a forum for communication. Only blog. We need a Group and a following or we are going to each be standing alone. I’m starting a group to communicate. It does not say anything about “Felon” or “ExFelon” so on Facebook to friends, family, and co workers it will be vague. Get in where you fit in, or not. At the very least we need the Relief of Disabilities funded for a case by case basis. Main goal is to allow ExCons to have Civil Rights just as they should have with every other Constitutional Right… Read more »

    L.V.
    Guest
    L.V.

    Let’s get a group started. Facebook
    Relief for Firearm Disabilities
    #ForgottenFelons

    Let’s work on communication and how millions of us can help change legislation! WWG1WGA

    COPY link below to be involved.
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/435505196958450/

    Freedom Bear
    Guest
    Freedom Bear

    Not everyone does facebook. There needs to be other ways to join, as well. Just an idea.

    L.V.
    Guest
    L.V.

    I agree. Right now it is like hearding cats to get people together. So finding a common place to communicate in real time is s good start. As it draws more interest and people get sick and tired of being treated as a 2nd class citizen and disenfranchised from their own unalienable rights. Then maybe it will grow and we have more means to afford a website or something. Right now I am just trying to steer people with like minded folks as we are a hell of alot stronger as a group/team than individually where the shut us down… Read more »

    Chris
    Guest
    Chris

    Start a YouTube channel

    johnnie raley
    Guest
    johnnie raley

    3 years probation 1981 7apps to texas board pardons and paroles and you must weight 2 years
    to file a new one. I have field 7 times and until we take out the secrecy rule it is not going to chang thay donot have to tell us why thay turend us down .so good luck on your run for office .i am fighting a state that gave me
    voting right back .so i never mis a vote.
    I WILL BE STARTING A LAWSUIT AGAINST TEXAS IF THIS ONE DOS NOT GO TRUE.
    REED FLORIDA DECISION AGAINST RICK SCOUT. IT IS NOT FINEL.

    L.V.
    Guest
    L.V.

    There needs to be a way ALL men and women Non Violent Felons all come together to demand legislation against Civil Rights Disenfranchisement. 5-7 Million people! That has a voice! Many that do have voting rights restored, but not all Civil Rights. Apply those votes in unity. Wake up America! Divided we fall. We need to be thinking how to get ALL felons together, maybe 1 Million man and woman march. If Felons come together as a group and be a voice for change. Bill of attainder, how can you continually be punished for a crime you have already once… Read more »

    Howard
    Guest
    Howard

    One possible way of approaching this might be to somehow make the restoration process based on a fee ($500/1000?). Then the money to do the work would not have to be appropriated and the process would be self funding. I am sure anyone trying to get their rights back could come up with a reasonable fee. Comments?

    Terry Kaplan
    Guest
    Terry Kaplan

    I would happily pay such a fee. It is ridiculous that the law provides for application to the BATF for restoration of firearms rights but they will not accept applications due to funding restrictions. I had 2 nonviolent felony convictions 19 years ago and all of my legal obligations associated with the 2 cases were over nearly 12 years ago. I am 61 and those were the only convictions for felonies or misdemeanors in my entire life. I have been a benefactor member of the NRA for 30 years. I am extremely disappointed that I cannot apply to have my… Read more »

    Barry Michaels
    Guest
    Barry Michaels

    You can support my lawsuit or you can support my run for the U.S. Senate (www.BarryForUSSenate.com ) either way we are strength in numbers. Barry

    Anonymous Bob
    Guest
    Anonymous Bob

    There should be a petition to the White House, filled with millions of signatures of reformed, law abiding “felons” who demand their gun rights back. Someone needs to create that petition. Someone should make a website. Make a YouTube or better yet, a Real.video channel where like-minded people can gather and network to fight for this cause. People change. I had a non-violent felony over a decade ago. Property crime while I was drunk. I changed my life around, gave up the booze, and became a productive, tax paying, law abiding person. Still am today. Yet, despite being an Army… Read more »

    walter kelly
    Guest
    walter kelly

    True Story… some people have been convicted of a Felony simply because they didn’t have a Concealed Weapons License and didn’t have their firearm in a case when transporting it. Not the facts that it was legal, registered, unloaded, taken down, and inaccessible, just simply not in a case. Yet, since the 2nd Amendment states the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed, and the fact that people where carrying open and concealed before during and after the 2nd Amendment was written and ratified without laws infringing upon them, it just goes to show… Read more »

    JL
    Guest
    JL

    The thing that I keep thinking about is the fact that there are 24 million x felons living here in the US. That is a lot of voices, a lot of votes and could be enough phone calls, e-mails and letters to tie up all the phone lines to Washington and flood every Representative with mail. I have always found that the wagon wheel that makes the most noise will be the first one to get greased. The only problem I see is finding a way to get up with all these people, get them on the same page, and… Read more »

    Dtownokie
    Guest
    Dtownokie

    Someone has to/should take the initiative. Figuring out how to reach out to disenfranchised excons is where we start.
    Not funding the “Relief of Disability” is a scam in which black balls the intent of how the law was written.

    Let’s figure out a way to communicate. Make a social network group? Then reach out to ministries, and probation and parole boards? Just thinking out loud.

    Gregory Jones
    Guest
    Gregory Jones

    I usually vote democrat 99% of the time. If There was someone or some organization would be our champion, I would then become a one issue voter and donate time and resources. There are plenty of us out there you have family members who would vote the same.

    Dr mac
    Guest
    Dr mac

    Libertarian is what all felons need to be looking at .
    Forget the republicans and the Democrats.
    Imagine a third party pulling votes from the big 2 . That is power .

    Joseph petty
    Guest
    Joseph petty

    There’s a man named Barry Michaels he has done a class action lawsuit for non-violent felons to get their gun rights restored I’m part of the class action lawsuit at least I signed on to it I’m a non-violent one felony on my record 17 years ago and I would like to have my gun rights restored for my own personal safety in my home and to be able to hunt and teach my son hunting and firearm safety and I think it’s the infringement on my god-given rights which is what the Second Amendment is it’s a god-given right… Read more »

    L.V.
    Guest
    L.V.

    Let’s set up a process to gain interest and promote. I am willing to exchange contact info for the right reasons.

    We have to rally the people. It starts with us.
    Most people are too ashamed or just allow themselves to be oppressed. The TIME is now!

    Who’s in?

    Barry Michaels
    Guest
    Barry Michaels

    Here’s an update on my Federal class action lawsuit from the Horse’s mouth. The 9th Circuit Panel affirmed the district court dismissal. We just filed a petition for rehearing en banc. Although the 9th Circuit wishes to “rest” on its binding precedent, none of the “precedents” actually involve a non violent, LAW ABIDING RESPONSIBLE citizen – which is the protocol for 2nd amendment rights set out by SCOTUS in its landmark DC v Heller decision. The “Phillips” case that they rely on as an example of a nonviolent felon utterly fails the Heller SCOTUS protocol because Phillips himself was not… Read more »

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    Sir:

    Re your cause “heading for the Supreme Court” given the antics of the 9th CIRCUS Court, that is the most likely direction, also at the risk of erroneous assumption, the only remaining direction. Good Luck there, especially respecting Supreme Court actions of late.

    LV
    Guest
    LV

    The Federal Overreach is in “Interstate Commerce” that is how they were able to write the law in the omnibus bill at a Federal level and what needs to be litigated. If you do not violate interstate commerce that law is writing on the wall.

    Krissy
    Guest
    Krissy

    I think it is absurd that the only INALIENABLE RIGHT that specifically states that it SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED UPON, is the only RIGHT that actually is greatly INFRINGED upon. And if a RIGHT can be taken away for something as minor as a traffic infraction, is it a right at all or is it just a privilege granted by a higher authority??? If a person kills another person intentionally with their automobile by running them over, is convicted of some type of willful killing, pleas out to a lesser charge of whatever, does their time & is released from… Read more »

    trumped
    Guest
    trumped

    Pretty much any time Chuckie Schumer takes one side of a political debate then the opposite side will always be correct.

    Darkman
    Guest
    Darkman

    I wish they would let Ol’ Chuckles lose in San Francisco with all the weapons he could carry. Certainly would make a full day of confused news reporting. The anti prison left who don’t believe in sentencing criminals against the anti gunners. In the end we’d all win. Charlie could have a fun last day. We’d be rid of a few more libtards. California could pass a few more laws. The world keeps ona turn’n.

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    “As long as we’re talking the law, where in the Constitution — “the supreme Law of the Land” — is the federal government delegated powers to have any say whatsoever in gun ownership? Aside from Congress having authority “to provide for calling forth the Militia,” the only other clear mandate to all branches is “shall not be infringed.”” NO WHERE…But…you must not know about The NEW Second Amendment of the amended US Bill of Rights… (sorry, we no longer follow “proper procedure” for amending these pain in the ass listed rights) A well regulated militia being necessary for the security… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Mark, The SCOTUS found that the Gun Control Act is a constitutional exercise of Congress’s power to control commerce. That is a fraud, however. The founders never intended that Congress could diminish the enumerated rights of the people by using its Commerce control power or taxing authority. The elitist SCOTUS was just as scared of Bobby Seals and the Black Panther party as Congress and the president was.

    Rokflyer
    Guest
    Rokflyer

    I could not agree more with Mr. Codrea, and some of you other folks. One thing I’ve noticed in this articles comments. The usual RINO blow hards that frequently expound on all matters pertaining to firearms are absent. Many of them are law and order types, who understand that they or none of their family members will ever be in this position. They are above any reproach, just because, they are who they are. As a NRA lifetime member, and legal gun owner, I have seen some very good people suffer this consequence. I believe in a standard that is… Read more »

    Chuck
    Guest
    Chuck

    I always understood that once a person had paid their debt to society – in other words had served their time in jail and/or prison – that they were to have their full rights restored. Whatever happened to that concept? Unfortunately, the single greatest violator of the United States Constitution, the Bill of Rights and its Amendments, as well as being the single greatest criminal enterprise in the United States, is the United States government. If you are the greatest violator of Constitutional Rights in United States, you are by definition the greatest criminal enterprise in the United States of… Read more »

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    If people want the law changed, seems to me that need to get on to their “elected things” and keep on them seeking whatever changes in the law they desire. Posting on discussion sites will not “cut this salami”.

    Rokflyer
    Guest
    Rokflyer

    Well, were not cutting salami. And many of us have been lobbying and contacting, these elected things. Taking uncomfortable bus trips together as a group to draw attention to this and other issues. Very rarely does the mainstream gun culture want to have a dialogue on this issue. They mostly just listen make some obtuse comment, and then pass the buck. Kinda like you just did…….

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    I did not think, nor do now think, that my comments amounted to “passing the buck”. In any case, I did not so intend. It does seem to me that a few minutes spent on contact with the people who write the law might be more impactful than the same amount of time spent here. While I will admit to,never having ridden the bus, which you mention, I have spent significant amounts of time and effort communicating, or trying to anyway, communicating with legislators on various matters, writing Letters to The Editor too, some of which have been published.

    Bruce G.
    Guest
    Bruce G.

    I have a possession of a controlled substance less than one gram felony conviction from 1997 but still cant get my rights back. I havent so much as had a moving violation since before 2000 but still not good enough. See, my conviction happened in cook county, illinois, the hardest place in the country to get a restoration of rights, PLUS I moved out of illinois and all the bad influences I knew there and because I am not an illinois resident, I don’t qualify to get a restoration of rights. I cant get one in the state I now… Read more »

    MarkPA
    Guest
    MarkPA

    There is one law; and, under it, you have been screwed by Chuck Schumer. The US DoJ has the power to adjudicate your case and restore your rights. However, Schumer has pulled the funding for this program for many years. It is restoring funding for this program – which is already authorized by Federal law – that we ought to be fighting for. Too many of us PotG are doing you and others in similar cases a great disservice. By naievely insisting that ALL felons should have their rights restored automatically after release (or after parole is completed) they make… Read more »

    Patrick Sperry
    Guest
    Patrick Sperry

    Okay, I’ll bite. What the heck is a PotG? I have never heard that term before.

    MarkPA
    Guest
    MarkPA

    People of the Gun.

    Gregory Jones
    Guest
    Gregory Jones

    We need to know how many of us out here. I usually vote democratic. However if we/I had a champion for the restoration of those rights. I would vote along the party line.

    Joel Lineberger
    Guest
    Joel Lineberger

    To Gregory Jones: Greg why do you vote for the very people that want to keep you from ever being able to get your rights back. The democrats want to take away all guns and taking guns away from felons for the rest of their life was just an easy step in that process. Do you even research the people you vote for or do you just mark the ballot because you parents voted that way or some far left college professor told you to. God gave you a brain so you can do research and think for yourself. Please… Read more »

    Alan
    Guest
    Alan

    While some might look at this guy , being a major white collar, pressed trousers, shined shoes type, undeserving of consideration, the man did not commit a crime of violence, though his crime might well have done significant harm to others. Additionally, the restrictions pushed by Senator Schumer smell bad, a not uncommon situation re his antics.

    Bob Shell
    Guest
    Bob Shell

    Yes if someone commits a non violent crime and a period of time say 5 years passes & he doesn’t commit any more crimes then he should be able to get his rights back. For instance an 18 year old steals a car but no one gets hurt he pays his price to society and a few years later ig no further offenses are committed then he should be able to get his rights back. Why should he be punished for the rest of his life for a stupid act he did when he was 18. Give him a second… Read more »

    MarkPA
    Guest
    MarkPA

    This case is an excellent one on which to make a point. There are probably lots more that are even better; e.g., a vulnerable women with an angry ex who has a fraud conviction. In any case, we should try to make the BEST of our argument, NOT THE WORST! After all, we are trying to achieve progress for SOME worthy felons; why promote the cause of ALL worthy felons while accomplishing NOTHING? “. . . where in the Constitution . . . is the federal government delegated powers to have any say whatsoever in gun ownership?” Nowhere. But, that… Read more »

    Chuck
    Guest
    Chuck

    I have a question for Mark PA,
    I mean this with all sincerity. Could you point me to the section of the Constitution where it refers to disablement?
    I must confess to not knowing the constitution fully and as well as I should so would appreciate any help you can give me and pointing me to that specific reference.
    Thank you

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    Chuck, you will not find what you are sincerely looking for in the U.S. Constitution. Losing ones civil rights due to conviction of a felony is Tenth Amendment police powers, so look to the statutes of your particular state.

    Mark Are
    Guest
    Mark Are

    Civil rights and UNALIENABLE rights are two different things. The RIGHT to defend your life, liberty and property are UNALIEANBLE rights spoken of in the founding document. The Declaration of Independence. A FELONY as the Founders knew one was a HEINOUS crime. Not some BS paper crime like not filling out a form “properly”.

    MarkPA
    Guest
    MarkPA

    Sorry Chuck, I’m pretty sure it’s not to be found in the Constitution. Also, respecting Wild Bill’s reference to the 10A, I don’t think that’s a complete answer to disablement. Assume, for a moment, that disablement is NOT an enumerated power of the Federal government. Well, then, the several States retain that power. Moreover, the States are explicitly granted the power to set the qualifications of their voters. (Albeit that power has largely been diluted away.) One case – specifically – is that the various States vary on whether and when they allow felons to vote. The power to dis-able… Read more »

    Howard
    Guest
    Howard

    America is really great about forgiving transgressions, giving second chances, even third, fourth, fifth (deported illegals) etc, except for our own citizens. Once convicted of a paperwork felony you are considered to be the same as a first degree murderer. It’s time to reconsider how we treat our own.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Howard, it is also time to consider how we treat the aliens, which aliens can be come one of us, and how and why those aliens can become one of us.

    Rokflyer
    Guest
    Rokflyer

    @WB, I do you believe you have your finger correctly placed on this issue. Much must be addressed to correct this issue that seems like a simple task. In my state it can be as simple as the right lawyer, and a particular judge. Or, It can inflame ones own case if he fails at the first attempt for restoration. The alien, immigration issue, concerning this cannot be unaddressed. I gratefully live in an open carry state, where most folks are never challenged. But a felon being in any proximity to a firearm is a very slippery slope in the… Read more »

    Tionico
    Guest
    Tionico

    “aliens” is rather a large class of people. It includes those who suffered the paperwork, time (sometimes years), costs (sometimgs multiple thousands) and suspense while waiting for that paperworl. Sometimes the permission comes bery quickly. But for everyone in that “class”, it comes, and they wait to enter, or to begin behaving like a resident, and it comes before they begin enjoying the sweet fruit of their patience persistence, payments. The other class of alien is rather “other”…. they care not a whit about any law, proceedure, requirement, they just up and invade, breaking the laws concerrning residence, and here… Read more »

    Rokflyer
    Guest
    Rokflyer

    @Tionico. Yes, my reference to aliens was very confusing. And it may not have been with the same intent as WBs.With my limited legal understanding I will try to explain my words. Several states have and will make exception to an alien carrying arms. With no knowledge of prior life. A year ago, I actually believed a non resident could not be in law enforcement in these United States. I have found this now to be false. For whatever reason, they are locales where non residents are serving as LEOs. I believe this has actually become an issue in Colorado.… Read more »

    MarkPA
    Guest
    MarkPA

    “. . . a non resident could not be in law enforcement in these United States. . . . ” I wonder if you meant a ‘non-citizen’. I don’t have any knowledge one-way-or-the-other, but I would find it hard to imagine a LE agency giving cop status to a non-resident who is a non-citizen. In any case, this alien thing is a big can of worms. First, we should note that it is fairly clear that a green-card holder probably does have the RK&BA because they are construed to be members of the class “the people” in other contexts by… Read more »

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Tio Nico, Yes, the answer is clearly in federal law, which the Oblabla administration ignored; and the Trump administration is gearing up again. But I think that the federal law needs to change from Ted Kennedy’s everybody and their relative classes of aliens to only aliens with skills that Americans do not have (not including language skills that Americans do not have).

    oldvet
    Guest
    oldvet

    @WB…Speaking of aliens, I have began to wonder if ts or xx or whatever is an illegal, and if soros is paying cash under the table, there by not paying taxes. Probably not or he would have been bragging about it.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    @Oldvet, I wish he were an alien, I pay his fare back to his home country and give him a week’s per diem.

    joe
    Guest
    joe

    This is nothing new, North Carolina has lost numerous lawsuits vs Felons who won their Gun ownership Rights back.

    Wild Bill
    Guest
    Wild Bill

    There should be no Gun Control Act. Any and all chipping away of the GCA is a good thing. Repeal of the GCA and the National Firearms Act (NFA) would be even better.

    Erwin Carl Lang
    Guest
    Erwin Carl Lang

    I wonder if Shumer’s security details carry slingshots.

    Joe
    Guest
    Joe

    So true… if we can’t trust these people to be good citizens, keep them locked up.
    Manson should never get out.

    MarkPA
    Guest
    MarkPA

    Conceptually, this IS a good argument. Practically, it falls apart. Voters will acknowledge that some violent felons – the Charles Manson types – must be kept locked-up for life; or, at least, until they are severely impaired by old-age. What we fail to recognize is that voters are also aware that taxpayers will NOT keep MOST violent felons in expensive prisons long-enough to dissuade them from their chosen path of violence. Voters realize that MOST violent felons WILL be released and MOST of these will commit another violent crime. Voters understand that they would be better off paying the price… Read more »

    Rokflyer
    Guest
    Rokflyer

    @MarkPA. All your comments are noted. You evidently have quite a passion for this issue. You have brought out many points of contradiction, not on your side, but simply because legaliam is always convoluted, by virtue of what it is. Everybody wants to get from point A to point B the quickest route. In time, side roads and short cuts are built to accomplish same. Some routes are so filled with obstructions that it even deters travel. Some routes cover terrain and rediculous direction that no one can sensibly travel that way and are meant to deter travel. Thus is… Read more »

    MarkPA
    Guest
    MarkPA

    You are very charitable. We are the only people who were given not only a Constitution, but also a users manual. See the Federalist Papers; and, also, the Anti-Federalist Papers. We were warned about mere “parchment barriers”. Maintaining our rights was not for the faint of heart. Too many of us think that it suffices to read the Constitution and then pontificate. Strategy and tactics matter not-at-all. These of our fellows have not studied how we lost our gun rights; nor how we have allowed so many other rights to whither away. I’m despondent about how rare it is to… Read more »

    Rokflyer
    Guest
    Rokflyer

    Well, your heads on straight. And your in the right crowd. Mr. Codrea and his devious mind that he uses for good, has set my head to spinning more than once. And some of these folks that comment here have taught me much about digging for facts, intelligent debate, and questioning my own first thought on what I see, hear, and read. It will not only be a long fight, evil is with us always. We must stand therefore, until we disconnect from this mortal state.

    Always in Liberty.

    Richard L
    Guest
    Richard L

    Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2017/08/lawsuit-could-set-precedent-on-restoring-gun-owner-rights-for-non-violent-felons/#ixzz4q118fWgc
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
    Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

    if you can’t trust him, what the hell are you doing letting him out?

    About David Codrea:
    Well said, Mr. Codrea

    Gregory Peter DuPont
    Guest
    Gregory Peter DuPont

    Worth reading,saving and passing on.