U.S.A. –-(Ammoland.com)- At about 4:10 p.m. on 8 August, 2019 Dmitriy Andreychenco parked in the parking lot of the Walmart Neighborhood Market in Springfield, Missouri. He took an tactical ballistic vest out of the car, put it on, and slung a AR type rifle. He walked into the store. He was open carrying and testing his Second Amendment rights, as confirmed by his wife and his sister. He had his phone in his hand and was recording himself as he pushed a cart through the store. He never pointed the firearm at anyone or made any verbal or written threat. The Walmart manager stated he heard an employee say that Dmitriy was coming into the store with the vest and the rifle. He observed Dmitriy walking in the store aisles. He told an employee to pull the fire alarm in order to get people to evacuate the store.
Dmitriy evacuated the store with the rest of the customers. As he left the store, another armed citizen pointed a gun at him and held him for police.
The police took Dmitry into custody without incident. A video shows him acting calmly and carefully following police commands. Police quickly determined he was not a threat, as the store manager had assumed.
Shortly after his arrest, a police officer claimed Dmitriy deliberately decided to cause chaos, a claim not supported by the facts. Police should avoid making claims about a suspects frame of mind, absent evidence.
The police arrested Dmitriy on suspicion of the making of a terroristic threat in the first degree
I predicted the Green County Prosecutor would not file a formal charge of a terrorist threat in the first degree. The facts did not support such a charge.
Dan Patterson, the Green County Prosecutor, rejected the charge of terrorist threat in the first degree.
Instead, he charged Dmitriy with a terrorist threat in the second degree. The second degree charge is still a felony.
Here is the felony complaint. From greencountymo.gov:
The Prosecuting Attorney of the County of Greene, State of Missouri, upon information and belief, charges that the defendant, in violation of Section 574.120, RSMo, committed the class E felony of making a terrorist threat in the second degree, punishable upon conviction under Sections 558.002 and 558.011, RSMo, in that on or about August 8, 2019, in the County of Greene, State of Missouri, the Defendant recklessly disregarded the risk of causing the evacuation of a building, the Walmart Neighborhood Market at 3510 W. Republic St., Springfield, Missouri, by knowingly communicating an implied threat to cause an incident or condition involving danger to life, or, in the alternative, by knowingly causing a fear that a condition existed involving danger to life.
Prosecutors routinely overcharge, as a starting position for plea bargains. Dmitriy is being held on $10,000 bail.
Here are the Missouri statutes for second degree and third degree terrorist threats. From mo.gov:
574.120. Making a terrorist threat, second degree — penalty. — 1. A person commits the offense of making a terrorist threat in the second degree if he or she recklessly disregards the risk of causing the evacuation, quarantine or closure of any portion of a building, inhabitable structure, place of assembly or facility of transportation and knowingly:
(1) Communicates an express or implied threat to cause an incident or condition involving danger to life; or
(2) Communicates a false report of an incident or condition involving danger to life; or
(3) Causes a false belief or fear that an incident has occurred or that a condition exists involving danger to life.
2. The offense of making a terrorist threat in the second degree is a class E felony.
3. No offense is committed under this section by a person acting in good faith with the purpose to prevent harm.
——–
(L. 2014 S.B. 491)
Effective 1-01-17
An important element of the offense is that the action is performed knowingly. The Supreme Court recently ruled on a case involving Second Amendment rights and what “knowingly” means. From the decision:
As this Court has explained, the understanding that an injury is criminal only if inflicted knowingly “is as universal and persistent in mature systems of law as belief in freedom of the human will and a consequent ability and duty of the normal individual to choose between good and evil.”
The prosecution will have to convince a jury that (3) Dmitriy knowingly caused a false belief or fear that an an incident has occurred or that a condition exists involving danger to life.
That will be a difficult case to make. Dmitriy consistently told the story that we was testing his Second Amendment rights, and he expected Walmart management to talk to him, not pull a fire alarm. The Third degree terrorist threat is probably the prosecutor’s target. Here is the statute:
574.125. Making a terrorist threat, third degree — penalty. — 1. A person commits the offense of making a terrorist threat in the third degree if he or she, with criminal negligence with regard to the risk of causing the evacuation, quarantine or closure of any portion of a building, inhabitable structure, place of assembly or facility of transportation, knowingly:
(1) Communicates an express or implied threat to cause an incident or condition involving danger to life; or
(2) Communicates a knowingly false report of an incident or condition involving danger to life; or
(3) Causes a false belief or fear that an incident has occurred or that a condition exists involving danger to life.
2. The offense of making a terrorist threat in the third degree is a class A misdemeanor.
3. No offense is committed under this section by a person acting in good faith with the purpose to prevent harm.
——-
(L. 2014 S.B. 491)
Effective 1-01-17
It is a high standard. Criminal negligence would be what a jury would need to be convinced of, most likely of (3) Causes a false belief.
Much will depend on surveillance video and the phone video that Dmitriy made. Did Walmart shoppers start running from Dmitriy before the Walmart management pulled the fire-alarm? It is not clear if that happened. The manager says he pulled the alarm to get customers to leave the store. If the manager believed that Dmitriy was a threat, even though customers were not panicking, the case for criminal negligence becomes harder to make.
Dmitriy faces considerable legal fees for his Second Amendment activism. Perhaps he could have shown better judgement. Maybe someone will create a gofundme account to help with his legal fees. It may be that gofundme will refuse to allow a fund to be set up.
They have taken down other conservative funding efforts, such as the one by Israel Folau, a Christian Rugby star who was sacked for quoting a bible verse, or the private effort to fund a border wall, where gofundme refunded $20 million, rather than allow the effort to proceed.
I do not believe the NRA legal defense fund will be of any assistance.
It is clear Conservatives need an alternative funding site, that will not take down their charity efforts, because the site disapproves of Conservatives. This case will be followed closely.
Email for the Green County Prosecutor, Dan Patterson, can be found at this link.
About Dean Weingarten:
Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of constitutional carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and recently retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.
Now that we’ve ALL had a chance to look at this and relax, answer this: If Looney Liberals can now claim that they are terrified by seeing someone wearing a MAGA hat, how is that different from someone simply exercising another Right? Where does it end and where do we, as potential jurors in such cases, stand up to prosecutors and others and say “hey, just because you’re not used to seeing this doesn’t make it a crime and doesn’t mean you get to toss someone in prison for years. Get over it”! Maybe it’s time we had a lot… Read more »
Sorry, I carry everyplace I go, even when the signs say “No Guns Allowed,” but this guy showed incredibly poor judgement and just gave the antis more fodder for their “All gun owners are crazy” campaign.
All these organizations have proved to be useless thus far.
They continue to rely on suing the government in an effort to get the government to see that the government did something wrong.
What we need now is action, what these organizations should be doing is organizing marches on state assemblies, capital buildings and D.C.
That is the only thing that will work now, a peaceful show of force.
@JMR – So who will organize these peaceful marches? Who will get permits, communicate – gather – and coordinate marchers, provide security (so gun owners can be shown in a positive-peaceful light), and perform all the other myriad tasks supporting such a march? Suing the government is useful – but you are right that we need to convince politians that we are right. To convince politians, we need to convince voters. A “show of force” would be counter productive if it comes across as force – rather than a show of numbers and passion. Have you written to GOA, CCRKBA… Read more »
If you read my comment, you would see that I already answered who should be organizing these marches.
The hollow words of the coward. Anytime someone says “Do something!”, the soft-spine knee-benders ask a myriad of questions, because THEY DO NOT intend to do anything that might cause themselves any inconvenience..
As long as Americans are AFRAID, the Patriots will be stabbed in the back by the cowardly knee-benders.
Ignorant and uninformed? Not at all. The GOA, FPC, and NRA, amount others continue to waste time and money fighting the government using the government’s system. As one person put it “It’s like reporting a rape to the police when the chief is the one who raped you” These organizations claim to have millions of members, well activate those members, do a Nation wide march on state assemblies, State capitals and D.C. as I described (and you chose to ignore) in my first post. Continually suing the government has clearly failed, it’s time, it’s beyond time to take the next… Read more »
@wjd why do you think they’re doing that? Partially because the left is out there demonstrating, while 2a people hide behind the NRA, GOA, and FPC (among other groups) and want them to do the work. These groups and 2a advocates would be much better off marching and showing these people we still exist, that if they screw up we will vote them out, and if they do screw up we need to vote them out. Too many people will still vote for them. You say you will vote them out, but if they win the primary will you vote… Read more »
@Gentlemen, it is the lobbyists that bribe and the parties that accept bribes, that corrupt our constitutional system. Ever democrat running for pres. is a millionaire. How did those former legislators get to be millionaires on a Congressional salary?
Time for parties to go. You want to run for office post you resume on line. Time for the “lobbyists to go. Get a rope.
You coward. Unlike the America Patriots, you blindly obey the unconstitutional gun control laws.
Keel and lick the hand of your master, coward. Your countenance is neither asked or needed.
AGAIN, the soft-spine knee-bender attacks support for Rights.
Write a letter, he says. Meantime, the police are being ramped up to kill gun owners should the democrats win in 2020 or 2024.
Kneel, coward, and lick the hand of the tyrant.
That’s what they say, but The Second Amendment Foundation has been around a lot longer and doesn’t beg me for money every day.
@Gentlemen, Pick what you like. One angry group is better than a few angry individuals. Multiple angry groups, utilizing differing techniques, is even better. But we have to fund them. If you all write out a check, today, it will be good timing, and you will not be alone. I’m writing out a check to GOA, CCRKBA, and SAF. They will be in the mail box this PM.
This guy really showed poor judgement in his actions, I think that a GoFundYourself account would be in order.
How is using your constitutionally protected rights poor judgement?
Well, I DO think that he would have appeared to be more the “common man” and not frightened some of the sheep (manager) without the vest. Lots of people in places like Texas carry ARs and the public doesn’t bat an eye, for the most part. Some even give an affirmative response.
I would agree. (See above reply to JMR.)
@USA, I happen to be one of those guys that go to antifa rallies and show up on the opposite side, usually standing between the police and antifa, until the police finally leave…. THEN it becomes OUR playtime!
Actually, “heed the call up”, I have not called the cops on anyone who was carrying in the open, rifle, pistol or shotgun. It IS their right to carry. I do believe that having a good rifle where you can get to it is a good idea these days. I doubt I would carry a rifle in public unless there was trouble. It just seems to me this guy was doing this as kind of a stunt in an effort to make people THINK before they panic. I think he did this fully knowing what has happened this week and… Read more »
I had agreed with much of what you stated, except when you stated you believed in OC, but would have called the police on a law-abiding citizen aka, swatting, for no other reason, except that he was OC. The rest of your posts fall hollow, once you have admitted to that, regardless where you served your country and when.
We have a 20 year old being stupid in public and lacking the common sense God gave a box of rocks trying to prove a point and picking the wrong time to do so. Namely, perfect ammo for the anti gunners
jrw, Could you, please, list the sense that is common to all. I don’t want to have missed anything.
@jrw40113, after you answer Wild Bill’s question I would like you to answer WHAT if ANYTHING from an anti-gunner that makes ANY sense? It’s no different than Bruce Jenner trying to tell females how to be women.
Side thought on how far we have “progressed” as a society over the last 243 years:
How would someone from 1800’s America define the word: “terrorist”?
A.) Someone who burns down an entire town.
B.) Someone who poisons the town’s only water supply.
C.) Someone who goes to the dry goods (grocery) store with their musket slung over their shoulder.
Our Founding Fathers are rolling in their graves right now..
But, he NEEDS to be gotten off for why? People do not expect to see someone dressed like Rambo in some supermarket. Dressed as this whack was, had he been openly ‘carrying’ a single sheathed Bowie knife he still would have spooked the folk!
@Firewater, because he was charged. People do expect, and I think it is you that is spooked.
@Firewagin, HOW MANY TIMES, have you seen people portray law enforcement whether it’s City, County, State or Federal show up in what must be assumed to be a crime scene, dressed in civilian attire sporting firearms all over the damn place and you don’t see any badges? In many cases you might be lucky to see a t-shirt with some kind of a Police emblem on the sleeve. Perhaps a vehicle here and there with WHITE strobe lights flashing… Are we to assume that it’s okay because a bunch of civilian dressed personnel show up with a bunch of guns… Read more »
I wouldn’t assume one to be a cop or not be a cop. I want to see a badge and a uniform and not some random guy pointing a gun at me. Scary to think of police serving no knock warrants on sleeping people at the wrong house or losers “swatting” people. Same with these red flag laws. I think no knocks should be illegal. I digress. This firefighter was asking for it and is lucky he didn’t get shot if you ask me. Firearms need to be more common place. In California the police will shoot you over a… Read more »
“We,” the one hundred million+ gun owners are constantly on the burner having to ‘defend’ “everyone’s” 2nd Amendment Right. In America’s current ‘secular’ culture, which changed from a more religious society over the past fifty-odd years, the carnage of killings, by guns, has increased exponentially over the past twenty+ years. The recent two “mass shootings,” occurring back to back, has resulted in ‘claimed’ staunch 2nd A supporters joining the call for more INFRINGEMENTS on ‘we the serf’s’ gun rights. Even normal thinking people are grasping at the wrong straws for answers! Why would we want to have ANYONE “testing” their… Read more »
@Firewater, You write, “… the carnage of killings, by guns, has increased exponentially over the past twenty+ years.” That is not even close to true, and a gun owner would not spew it. You write, “… America’s secular culture …” Part of America’s population does not believe in God. A small part. We should all be making sure that we are really right when exercising our First and Second Amendment Civil Rights. These demonstrations to the secular slobberer part of America are necessary so that they learn what a Right is, what our Rights are, and that we won’t give… Read more »
@OV, Could be! We have to watch for a phrase the the green rat fink used to use.
MSGT PLUMMLEY TO DIMITRI:
“Sir, Firewagon’s a PUSSY, you ain’t!”
Everyone here talking about RIGHTS this and that need to understand that YOU are to blame as am I for people fearing our right. Only we are complicit in allowing guns to fall out of favor in our own culture. Yes we have a right to openly carry but guess what I’m guilty as well since I only concealed carry. This guy did nothing wrong except for being born in the wrong era where all of us who are older than age 18 have let our right seem like a privilege instead of the RIGHT that it IS. Pro2A 100%.… Read more »
@Operator Z, you are dead wrong! Dimitri Andreychenco was born right when and where he was supposed to be! He is doing exactly what we should have been doing all along. Albeit many of us didn’t have cell phones available or AR-15s or even Walmart’s for that matter back in our younger days, but Dmitri Andreychenco is doing exactly what ALL American citizens should be doing, PERFORMING QUALITY CONTROL, otherwise known as, CHECKS AND BALANCES of our government! I am waiting response from the Second Amendment fFoundation and Gun Owners of America in regards to setting up links the pay… Read more »
How am I dead wrong when I’m essentially saying the same thing you are. I don’t think he did anything wrong. I do think that all of us gun owners are complicit in letting society get to a point where seeing a gun is a cause for panic. If you don’t open carry daily than it IS your fault. Myself included as a 40 year old but especially you guys in the older generations.
@OpZ, Well, I don’t know about the dead part, but your logic construct begins with an incorrect assumption rather than a fact (or a correct assumption as a place holder until you find the fact.)
Although, I admire your enthusiasm, one can not have a fallacy in the steps and come to a correct conclusion. Nor can we skip steps.
@OpZ, You write, “… we are complicit in allowing guns to fall out of favor in our own culture.” You presume that guns were more popular in the past. That is an incorrect assumption and your logical construct gets off on the wrong foot.
A 1959 survey indicated that 69 percent of the surveyed believed that hand guns were murder weapons only good for one purpose. Handguns were less popular, not more popular, in the past.
Also assigning blame is not helpful, it is off putting. So lets make a couple of logic changes and recompute.
Either way if you don’t open carry you are part of the problem. I don’t open carry but I should. Who else here is man enough to admit they are part of the problem huh. I’ll wait.
Just a side note: the rioters in Hong Kong, as reported by Fox news, have been flying the American flag and singing our patriotic songs. They want the freedom we have. Maybe some of the commenters here need to go and be a pansy for China and put an infringement on the fight for freedom. A very small example of how important our rights and freedoms are.
so was it strapped behind his shoulder? as in a hand gun in its holster! if so, I think some charges need to be placed against the prosecutor!
Was it pink? Did it have stripes on it? Were there dingle-balls hanging from the muzzle? Pffffft! WTF does it matter?
Did IT or did IT (Dimitri’a actions) NOT comply with the First and Second Amendments?
You should also be asking why the Wal-Mart manager isn’t charged with a 3rd degree felony for starting the FEAR and why Officer Oliver Hoedel, et al is not being IMMEDIATELY counter-sued?
This kid was beyond stupid. Yes, he had the right to sport his AR and vest in public. No, he didn’t threaten anyone. Yes, the store manager over-reacted. Yes, the conceal carry, off-duty fireman over-reacted. For the most part, just being stupid isn’t criminal. The kid should walk.
@ed? So far you blame the store manager and foreman for, “over-reacting”, which both acts that these two particular person’s did could have caused harm or death whereas all Dimitri did in your eyes was be, “stupid”?
Now let me see, two alarmists in one hand and my two RIGHTS in the other?
Yes, they were alarmists. And the kid was stupid. He didn’t threaten anyone. He appeared in public wearing a vest and open carrying a firearm. He didn’t threaten anyone. No one has reported that he even gave anyone a dirty look. His timing was very bad based on the incidents that occurred over the last couple weeks. Dmitri made a bad choice. So did the manager.
@ed, from now on don’t you leave your house, don’t you drop your drawers to take a dump, don’t you even spit, until you first cover all of the world events and post a dissertation to us here on the internet stating that that it’s safe for you to go outside and open your mouth.
@ed, So the kid was stupid because he did not threaten anyone? When you write “vest” do you mean bullet proof vest? Because that does not look like a bullet proof vest to me. As to a bad choice, I think the kid might end up rich, his attorneys will end up rich, and he might have done for American freedoms what none of us has. Fortune favors the bold.
Having read the law and multiple accounts of what happened, it seems to me that the crime of Terroristic Threatening in the Second Degree WAS committed at Walmart that day. But the person who disregarded the risk of causing the evacuation and who caused a false belief or fear that an incident has occurred or that a condition exists involving danger to life, was clearly the Walmart Manager who caused the evacuation by sounding the false fire alarm. Of course, that wasn’t the only crime committed there that day. There was also Assault with a Deadly Weapon committed — by… Read more »
@Xaun Loc, THANK YOU! I have been waiting for someone else to point out the Assault With A Deadly Weapon against the “firefighter”, plumber, beautician, welder or whatever he was…
Wreckless Endangerment would be other charges for Wal-Mart and the citizen brandishing a weapon…
What amazes me is that the firefighter wasn’t more concerned about responding to the fire alarm INSIDE Walmart, rather than trying to act like a cop outside?
@USA? WHAT, “system of tyranny” was taking place at that time?
So, the prosecutor’s contention is that to simply and peacefully “keep and bear arms” is now a criminal action? Sad times we’re living in!
If this results in a conviction, it will set a very dangerous precedent for ALL gun owners. Just imagine how easy it will be for an anti-gunner to get someone charged with domestic terrorism.. Meeting a buddy in a parking lot to ride in the same vehicle to the range or go hunting? Gonna walk from your vehicle to his with your “EVIL” black benelli shotgun and “TACTICAL” tan sporting clays vest? Think that 16 year old parking lot attendant knows the difference? How long does it take scared snowflake fingers to google the phone # of the nearest business… Read more »
@annie, I predict that if this results in a conviction, it will go to federal court appeal and be resolved on First Amendment grounds.
This exercise of free speech occurred in town so there will be a jury of town people, I suppose.
Very stupid with very poor timing. Dude, please stop trying to help us responsible gun owners.
I guess the responsibility and duty of, “responsible gun owners” ends where only TRUE American citizens must step up to TRULY DEFEND AND PROTECT just before they apply any effort to the, “innocent until proven guilty” portion of the Constitution?
The sad reality is that, ill-timed or not, Mr. Andreychenco proved incontrovertibly that the Second Amendment to our Constitution is definitely under attack. Just as self-censoring our words is an infringement of our First Amendment Rights, your insinuated suggestion that we should self-censor our Constitutionally lawful actions is an infringement of our Second Amendment Right to “keep and bear arms”!
Let us know when there is a GoFundMe or similar link.
Officers arrested this guy not on suspicion of any wrongdoing, but on the fact that he openly carried a stigmatized firearm. Someone then went down a laundry list of what-can-we-stick-him-with to justify the wrongful arrest and the fear.
We need to have the courage to defend people like this. If he doesn’t have the right to bear arms, because “feelings”, then we don’t have the right to bear arms.
@TerryH and @TexDad, TerryH, pay attention here… TexDad here is the exact example of, “THE” TRUE American Citizen I commented about above… You (TerryH) just sit back and be a, “responsible gun owner”. TexDad, myself along with the rest of us with BACKBONE will, “Pledge our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor” to defend and protect Dimitri and HIS rights, OUR rights and the rights of the rest of our great nation! But you just sit there on your complacent as s being a pious “responsible gun owner” and read about the results in this matter We will be… Read more »
@TexDad, There should be links in the works being considered as we speak between both Gun Owners of America and the Second Amendment Foundation after I just placed calls to both.
Now I am waiting on a list of attorneys from Missouri in that area that can step in and start the process of defending Mr Andreychenco.
Thank you, sir, for taking action to make it happen. When there’s a way to help fund this man’s defense, I will do my small part.
The only thing this guy accomplished was to make gun owners look like the irresponsible Neanderthals’ that we are labeled as by the Left. I read the comments, doing something irrational does more harm then good
Dmitriy pulled a sick stunt and he will be prosecuted for it. He’s not being charged with openly carrying a rifle, but scaring the crap out of Walmart shoppers one week after the El Paso Walmart shooting. He did it on purpose and now he will pay for his idiocy.
@wjd – One symptom of idiocy is not knowing that one is an idiot. Recognizing and admitting one’s stupidity if often the best sign of someone’s intelligence. Have not seen retraction from @MikeTX (who hopefully is not in Texas) – so suspect he hasn’t a clue how stupid he is.
Dimitri got up off his dead ass and actually DID SOMETHING to defend and protect OUR rights. Just because he didn’t do it in a way that was “comfortable” with you and your lifestyle… You must be one of those, “responsible gun owners” like, “TerryH” above?
Dmitriy didn’t do anything for you or me or the 2nd Amendment. He pulled a childish stunt because he’s a drama whore. Period.
I’m guessing he’s not known at any local gun ranges, nor has he ever gone hunting. It’ll come out at his trial that he’s a pathetic loser with no social skills. He doesn’t give a flip about the 2nd Amendment.
I wouldn’t hang my hat on this bum for any reason – steer clear of Dmitriy the Nutcase.
@MikeTX, I’ve done an awful lot of research into law, the Constitution and such, bit I don’t see anywhere in there where the framers had any mention out having to be, “known at any local gun ranges”, nor… “ever gone hunting”, or even being, “a pathetic loser with no social skills.”? Nope! Just, THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS! A FACT! A RIGHT! Not to be abbrogatted in any form or manner.
I mean, nobody is preventing you from coming on social media and spouting off about YOUR rights, are they? BLINK TWICE if they are!
Why does he need to be a hunter? Or go to public ranges?
Pretty sure the Tories thought throwing a shipload of tea in Boston harbor was also irrational. To voluntarily cede ground to the enemy by letting them control the dialogue is tacit surrender to that enemy.
Thanks, Dean. Your articles are always interesting and informative.
Gun rights are tenuous things. These kind of stunts aren’t just unnecessary, they’re counterproductive. The Constitution can be changed, and if we scare enough suburban housewives it will be.
Counterproductive? So, your suggestion is that we meekly surrender to the PC snowflake culture? Yep, that’ll show ’em!
@Wyomark, Civil Rights are not tenuous. Rights are a shield behind which you can not be touched. The government can not get around, over, or through them. Our Civil Rights make us the master to the government. We say “No” and the government must stop. I do not think that you have a proper understanding of what a Right is. The Constitution can be changed, but our pre-political Civil Rights, acknowledged in the Constitution are not created by the Constitution, any of the governments, or even the founding fathers. Our pre-political Civil Rights are permanent, unbridgeable, and un-infringeable. If it… Read more »
@Wild Bill, many do not realize these inalienable rights are established in the eyes of God and those that do not believe in God more than likely do not believe they have any rights?
USMC, I take umbrage to your comment about those that do not believe in “god”. I am an Atheist and have strong ethical and moral fibers, and wholeheartedly believe in our inalienable rights. I might disagree that they are “god-given”, but I do fully agree on the unalienable part. I would also postulate that there are just as many “god” believers that also do not believe in our unalienable rights. It’s not a “god” issue, it is a maturity and rational issue. Which, when you look at religion, and that one has to have “faith” in “god”, you can see… Read more »
@Heed the Call-up — Thanks for saving me from having to make similar argument. Would not have said it nearly as well.
I myself am an apathist rather than an atheist. If somehow there is a god we’ve created in our own image – I highly doubt that he/she/it cares what we think of it.
That said – let’s all be mature about this and embrace our diversity. Many bring various skills to the fight to preserve our rights. Let’s get on with the business of working together.
Well-said, and fully agree.
@Oldvet — unfortunately NOTA (None-Of-The-Above) will not win any of the elections. I vote for the lesser evil, but whoever wins considers winning to be resounding endorsement of ALL their policies.
Best I hope for in 2020 election is to slightly slow ongoing erosion of individual liberty in this country.
@Wyomark, “Gun rights are tenuous things”?
The Second Amendment of the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES dictates that you are WRONG!
Perhaps tenuous in the sense that if we don’t constantly work to preserve our rights, we WILL lose them.
I think the store video will show nothing happening until the fire alarm was pulled and beside that creating a panic it was also turning in a false alarm. The Manager should be the one arrested, not the guy calmly shopping with a cart and open carrying. From the description in the article of a “terroristic threat”, they’re going to have a hard time even for third degree. I blame the Store Manager. Which is not to say I think what he did was a good idea. Especially fully loaded. No mags and an empty rifle would blow the charge… Read more »
Why you should there be ANY difference of Dimitri carrying a loaded rifle and you carrying a loaded pistol?
Do you really think that hoplophobes would recognize the difference between loaded and unloaded. If charge is for “causing panic” – unloaded gun causes just as much panic and is just as “wrong”.
I think his timing could have been better – but he did nothing illegal.
Where are the links to go-fund-me for his legal fund?
Huh sounds like the charge should be levied against the Walmart manager who was the only one who legitimately caused panic and chaos, he also pulled a fire alarm with no fire.
Meanwhile, the guy with the guns didn’t break any laws, and it could be argued he was not only using his 2a protected right but also his 1a as his move could be described as speech or expression.
@JMR, join The Rare Breed of TRUE American citizens along with TexDad and myself.. ANY OTHERS THAT TRULY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON HERE? Anybody? I mean other than those, “responsible gun owners”?
An unrelated correction and bit of good news….. gofundme tried to shut the wall effort down, but received a lot of pushback so their end run was to make everyone that donated, including myself, opt in or receive a refund. It backfired and the overwhelming majority opted in and the funds were used to build nearly a mile of wall near El Paso in a highly trafficked crossing area that completed in June. The effort is continuing and you can still donate to build additional wall.
Just because you can do something does not mean you should. Poor judgement is no excuse when defending the 2A. After experiencing shootings in various cities in a short time AND press coverage of victims, showing at a Walmart with an open carry AR-15 was not, in my opinion, a smart way to exercise your 2A rights. After all, another Walmart was the recipient of a mass tragedy. Situational awareness and public sensitivity is key to ensure we gain the confidence of those who are not sure about the 2A. In my opinion, poor judgement at a very bad time… Read more »
And? Is it illegal to be dumb? Should we throw away and make felons of everyone who has made a poor decision?
Even we agree he was dumb, he still didn’t do anything illegal.
@Jose a, You are apparently unaware that each and every one of our civil rights exist to protect the minority from the caprice of the majority and whims of all levels of government. It is famously said that speech that offends the majority is exactly what is protected because speech that the majority likes does not need protecting.
If every American, but him, hated what he was doing, they could not stop him from expressing himself this way.
Bill: Exactly! From a recent Florida Court of Appeals ruling: “As the U.S. Supreme Court has stated: “[O]ne of the costs of the First Amendment is that it protects the speech we detest as well as the speech we embrace. Though few might find respondent’s statements anything but contemptible, his right to make those statements is protected by the Constitution’s guarantee of freedom of speech and expression.”
That ship already sailed during the Obummer Dictatorship – free speech is dead in America.
@wjd — @Mike Taxes is just a troll. We need to stop feeding him.
Would that make my AR an LGBTQ supporter, and thus PC? Would it then be legal in California?
@josiaparodi, sure, we will fully understand that each and every time we step out of our homes that we will first check the social media, the news reports and what the hell The Neighbor Next Door is thinking or fearing before we begin to exercise our rights in public? Thank you so much for pointing that out to us that in order to exercise OUR INDIVIDUAL GOD-GIBEN RIGHTS, that we must first cower down and only exercise those rights that are consistent with whatever the media, the fear of the person next to me or some dimwit’s approval or poll… Read more »
Folks should have already been carrying all along, that’s just prudent. Citizens are responsible for their own safety, relying on cops to save your bacon is a losing proposition.
I’ve been counseled and harangued for years that a “piss Christ” so-called “work of art” is protected First Amendment speech, that our rights are tested not by what everyone likes but by what everyone dislikes. It’s easy to defend our Second Amendment Rights on a keyboard. Mr. Andreychenco bravely put himself on the front lines of the war against our civil rights. We will not win that war by giving up at the first shot.
@USA, Uh? It always HAS BEEN?
All this clown did was push a lot people all across the country off the fence and onto the side of the anti-freedom movement.
Not in the least, none that believe in our rights have been turned to the dark side by this incident. Were you swayed against the First amendment by those that spat on our troops and burned our flag or bu the Westboro Baptist Church protests?
This! I am very pro Second Amendment rights. Having the right to open carry is very important as it prevents prosecution for “menacing” etc etc. Constitutional Carry is likewise very important. We must fight to preserve them whenever we can. But walking into a store with a openly displayed rifle and 100 rounds of ammo days after a mass shooting in the same store chain makes preserving that right more difficult. Knowing someone’s intent in the moment isn’t possible and this stunt certainly changed a lot of middle of the road voters away from our cause. Elections are won in… Read more »
@Whit, why not just be great that when it’s time to come and save which bacon did everybody sits back on their butt and pontificate whether or not they’re going to help in YOUR defense?
Dimitri Andreychenco did more to defend our First and Second Amendment rights than anything you have ever done for OUR country!
…and I somehow missed the part where Mr. Andreychenco was in posession of 100 rounds of ammo?
If that’s all it takes, they’re not reliable allies anyways.
If all it takes to sway them to the anti side is a guy legally carrying his firearms in a legal manner.
Irrelevant. It is our job to defend his Right (note capital “R”) to do so lest we lose our Right to speak, demonstrate etc for whatever cause, peacefully, in the future.
@Oldvet – DA is first and foremost a political office. This is why I highly doubt that either the retired fireman or Walmart manager will be charged, though first obviously broke the law and second could possibly have. Demitri clearly did not break the law and should never have been arrested.
Well he’s getting his wish. He’ll be testing his 2A rights, and his right to a speedy trial and to be faced by his accuser, etc., etc. He will also be testing the idea that just because you can do something does not mean that you should. Most people have understood the concept that open carry, while it might be legal, is simply not a good idea. It creates fears in the general public which is exactly opposite of the goal of most sensible gun owners, and it also gives away an important tactical advantage. But what he is mostly… Read more »
Yes, we have read your numerous posts against our rights. We get it, you hate firearms and their owners. Most of us would agree that these 2A audits are unwise, but the actions of the manager, the CC holder (his shockingly illegal actions, which are strongly instructed against in CC classes and self-defense classes), the police, and the prosecutor, show that they are sadly needed to instruct these people and others on our rights. Do you believe those that burn the flag should be prosecuted for a crime, too? If not, since your opinion is based on feelings, not facts,… Read more »
@ level butt I can not agree with your idea that a person should hide his rights and sneak around without being observed as a person of conviction. You are really a snowflake and an anti-freedom loving pansy.
It appears that the store manager is more culpable of causing fear and evacuation. However, he is covered by the statement that he acted in good faith to attempt to prevent harm.
I believe that once the prosecutor has had time to research this further and review available evidence, he will drop the charges. The only way he would not is if he were convinced that he could get a jury seated that would make an emotional judgement rather than a rational and legal judgement.
Red flag laws, Salem witch trials. Who will be his peers on this jury? Second amendment wimps that believe in open carry but won’t support his action because of timing? Open carry is applicable at all times unless it is stated it is against the law like in a court house in most cases. I don’t think his action was smart but he made his point. We are now subject to the lefts interpetation of what are intentions are because they think we are going to do something. The police shouldn’t have arrested him but talking to him was perfectly… Read more »
@musicman44mag? You obviously do not understand that in criminal trial, both the prosecution and the defense question prospective jurors to decide which ones they want to allow to sit on the jury or deny allowing a juror to seat in the matter.
Then you came on strong as to who should actually be prosecuted in this situation, leaving out the fireman in the police officer?
Then you got all wishy-washy about how we should live and abide by our Second Amendment RIGHTS?
Do you need a Snickers bar?
The guy is only guilty of poor judgment. Walking into the same brand of department store that had been under terrorist attack by someone dressed and armed in like manor is asking for trouble, legal or not. That being said I don’t know of ANY LAW he broke. It is a right to carry state. All he did was to carry. He threatened no one. The prosecutor is getting a lot of exercise by flying off the handle, jumping to conclusions. Did the guy look scary? Yes, but his intent was obviously to get people to THINK BEFORE ACTING as… Read more »
Deplorable, how many OC persons have you called the police on? But that isn’t swatting? His manner of dress is not scary. If that were true, people would run screaming every time they saw a LEO or a military member. You advise being armed with a rifle is reasonable, but will call the police on every armed citizen you see?